ugly maps (re-starting quite a lot)

[-proletarian-]

Is it just me, or does the random map generator make some pretty crappy maps? I mean, with all the possibilities available to it, it just seems to make the same type of scenery over and over. I went into the editor and made some really beautiful islands, ones with snow-capped mountain ranges, speckled with forests of pine and mightly rivers flowing down from their peaks into the surrounding forested grasslands......beautiful. But does the generator ever come up with realistic, integrated scenery such as this? nah. it'll just sprinkle a mountain here, a mountain there, I mean, it's just not..........INTEGRATED. It looks, in a word, random! Maybe a future patch should increase the chances of a group of scenic effects appearing together, as this would greatly improve the maps that are generated by the CPU........many a game I am forced to re-start only 30 turns or so into the game, as the starting position I have been given is, shall I say, ugly? I know it sound shallow and frivilous, but I find it difficult to get into my game when my empire is such an ugly place, terrain-wise. Anyone else know what I'm on about?

 

[J Fred Muggs]

Yep know what you mean. I don't think we're the only two that restart game after game to get something that is useable. There is barely a land mass in the world that doesn't have some sort of resource, but not in Civ3. I really expected more from the random generater for Civ3, I see little difference between it and Civ2.

 

[Gnarlyhotep]

I haven't had any resource issues yet. For me it's been entire islands/contients of forest and jungle...talk about totally screwing up your civ growth...by the time you get enough land cleared to allow for growth, you're so far behind the tech/culture curve you might as well give up.

At least there are a number of user maps coming out...hopefully someone will release a good map pack, or firaxis will come up with a better random generator.

All I want is a map of middle earth....and maybe one from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn

 

[Eliezar]

I just finished a game where my entire continent was without a river. No irrigation possible! It was awful.

 

[Gnarlyhotep]

heh...I had a similar game and loved it...had no rivers/lakes on my continent...so I ended up mining everything.

Let me tell you, being able to produce infantry/tanks in 1/2 turns....that's a good feeling. :slay:

 

[slothman]

I had a problem in civ2 where every couple of games I started in a time where the game would be no fun. What I started doing was using the mapeditor to generate maps and check them myself. If it was bad, down the golden egg hatch it goes, if it was good I would play a game on it. That way I don't have to restart civ2 several times. The only drawback was I saw the whole map at the beggining. I assume this method would work this civ III as well.

 

[BurnPoodle]

All I have to say is that its true... the map generator is crappy old sh*t!... =\ Its not fun to restart 30 times to get a game that can be fun... and when you think u hve a good one, then after making 4-5 cities you realise that u only had a little land that was good... after these borders.... it becomes sh*t

Its not encouraging to continu playing this game till theres a better map generator or like you said... some good maps made by users where every civilization have the same chances of doing good...

 

[loduke]

Originally posted by BurnPoodle
Its not encouraging to continu playing this game till theres a better map generator or like you said... some good maps made by users where every civilization have the same chances of doing good...

What you suggest is not realistic. It may be more fair to all the players, but it is not realistic.

I think that the random map generator works just fine. I enjoy not knowing whether or not I'll have a great place to start building a bunch of cities, or if I'll have mediocre land that I can't expand much on. If I have the latter, you can be damn sure that I'll be building a lot of troops to TAKE better land from other civs. The current random map generator simply makes you change your way of playing according to where it drops you.

For those of you complaining that a bad starting position ruins the game, it sounds to me that you all have only 1 strategy that you like to use when playing and bad land ruins your chance to play "your" game, or you aren't interested in the game because your starting place increases the odds that you might not win.

This isn't chess were both sides start with equal power, it's Civ 3 and the randomness is part of what makes it great!!

 

[damunzy]

I'd have to say I enjoy the randomness. I have only gotten one map so far that was useless from my starting location. The maps that I have seen some people start from and then complain about being useless I considered fair. The terrain deffinately would have kept the enemy from trying to invade as soon.

 

[betheballdanny]

I used to play civnet with my friends, and they'd want to restart if they didn't start near a river. It wasn't so bad when we were only playing with 2 people. But, once we got 4 people involved, it was really frustrating starting over so often. I'm worried that when MP comes out, people are going to be leaving games left and right because there's no river near them or whatever. Sure, I can imagine that it would suck being forced to play a MP game in territory that doesn't suit your style. But, MP isn't going to be out for a while. So, now's the time to develop different styles for different types of terrain.

It sounds to me that -proletarian-'s complaint was purely aesthetic. I'm down with that.

 

[J Fred Muggs]

Bull ****!! I don't know how many times I've started in jungle after endless jungle and as was pointed out in another thread by the time you get even a piddling civ, you're so far behind it makes no sense to continue. This isn't the only example that can put you in a tail spin from the start.

 

[betheballdanny]

Well, then you'll lose. Big deal. Start another game when you do. Honestly, I'm tempted to restart when presented with a poor starting spot. I did it all the time in civ2. Frankly, playing the same way every time made one of the best games ever start to get boring. But, I'm trying to force myself to play it out in civ3. There have been a lot of posts saying that it's possible to win with only a few cities by beefing up the culture. I consider games like that a chance to try something else.

Oh, I saw a post that said you don't have to clear a jungle spot before settling. Settling on it will clear it for you.

 

[J Fred Muggs]

Originally posted by betheballdanny
Well, then you'll lose. Big deal. Start another game when you do. Honestly, I'm tempted to restart when presented with a poor starting spot. I did it all the time in civ2. Frankly, playing the same way every time made one of the best games ever start to get boring. But, I'm trying to force myself to play it out in civ3. There have been a lot of posts saying that it's possible to win with only a few cities by beefing up the culture. I consider games like that a chance to try something else.

Oh, I saw a post that said you don't have to clear a jungle spot before settling. Settling on it will clear it for you.

Some points I agree with and some I don't. It is a big deal to spend x hours only to see the setting is really bad. I too did it all the time in Civ2 and your point is well taken to see what new things can be done with poorer settings in this version. We have two biggies working for or agianst us in Civ3, terrian and resorces. If you have both against you at the start, forget it. It isn't like I'm looking for utopia, just a fair shake.

Yep, it does clear the spot as it does no matter where else you settle. Here is the kicker though, it takes 19 turns for one worker to clear a jungle square (if I read it right, even if I didn't it sure feels like it) mean while your new city in the midst of the jungle is getting hit with diesease. What I've learned from my jungle tries and I've done more then a few are as follows. Don't keep your settlers on auto, for some reason when they get to the extreme of your empire they get crazy. Team them. However having said that if you keep one or two on auto they'll improve, you just road and clear. Don't attempt to wade into deep jungle till you have a bunch of workers that you can concentrate on the task. A large set of jungle tiles can be a good hedge even against the AI. I've had the best luck mid to later in game time when I can buy improvements and have settlers join the city. In short I make no attempt into deep jungle other then to give my capital a hedge in early game time.

 

[dannyevilcat]

I've gotta say that I really like the random maps. Sure, sometimes they suck, and yes, usually you start in a crappy spot, but compared to the random maps in Civ2, which were just a bunch of squiggly, ink-blots, now they have actual continents, which even look like continents!

Here's what I do before I start a game: randomly generate a map in the editor. Or several. Since you can't really see the map from here, I load each map in the game, retire, and look at the world from the recap-player.
If I like it, I pick a spot I want to start in and keep reloading until I get it.

 

[J Fred Muggs]

I should wear my glasses when I play. It's 12 turns to clear a jungle tile, not 19.

 

[Cerryl]

I too, am annoyed at the random maps. Even with the 5 billion age choice, there's too many mountains most of the time.

Or, you pick a standard size, with continents and only 4 civs, and most if not all, start on the same continent.

And man, when there's Jungle, there's a TON of jungle.

 

[delexaet]

heh if you look at any part of the world today, there isnt one country that is 80% plains and 20% others.

Almost every country has about at least 35% of it's landmass made up of mountains and hills... AT least.

I know it's frustrating and hard when you start out in a tough environment but what would be the point of starting out in a perfect environment? There's no challenge or FUN to that imo.

If i started out in a place with al ot of plains and grassland, there would not be much competition in terms of expanding. Personally the map generator is perfect because it forces you to think strategically on where to place your cities and etc.

well that's just me hehe

 

[CeasarSalad]

Mountains are good! Think of the shield production.

Re: No rivers,

This is a pain but at least you can irrigate with salt water once you learn electricity (I hope that you knew this).

 

[TrailblazingScot]

In my one game I found the random map great...just having 16 civs filled it up a bit too quickly and kept me from many resources!

The graphic mod by "Snoopy" makes this game so pretty

 

[Agni Neres]

One interesting note would be that, when Civ2 first came out, one of the biggest complaints was the random world generator! Needless to say, we got over it. Sid and Jeff stuck to their guns.

Those stringy worlds were made to overcome the Civ1 Trireme cheat (where AI trireme never sank, but you couldn't get off your land till the Age of Sail).

Having played all 3, I have to say IMHO the random worlds of Civ3 are the best of the family.

BTW, to get the terrain more homogenous, select 3 billion years for world age. Hasn't had time to break up yet.

Cheers,
Agni