Uigher

[thetrooper]

I'm reading The Altman Code by Robert Ludlum now. And I have one question for you folks: Who are the Uighers?

I have searched the net and forgive me for not trusting everything I find there, so no copy/paste from internet searches please. Some experts here?

They seem to be an ethnic group living in NW China and Central Asian countries.

 

[blindside]

They were a settled Turkic people or so I remember. The only time I read of them was in a book about Genghis Khan.

 

[lobster]

I'm not 100% sure about them but here is what I know of.

They were one of the biggest Turkish tribes that lived in NW China, known in Chinese history as early as the Sui and Tang dynasties (maybe earlier). Once a decent sized kingdom, they were pro-Tang and helped the Tang in fighting the, err, Turkish empire (Tu-Que) and driving out of modern day Mongolia, and aided in troubled times like the An-Shi and Huang Chao rebellions. After the Tang dynasty they were disconnected from China (Song dynasty) by Xixia. From then on they started to shrink and were later conquered by the Mongols. They are now known to the Chinese people as the Hui people.

Since they believed in Islam, the religion and Muslims are better known to Han Chinese people as the "Hui religion" or "Hui believers".

 

[thetrooper]

Thanks for your input blindside and lobster! Now I have a few more keywords to hook up the info

Edit: Much appreciated indeed! I feared that the thread would just sink into the depths without any notice. Hopefully a few posts will get the thread going.

 

[lobster]

Chinese characters for Uigher. These are just two characters that pronounce similarly. The first one is the word "Hui", the abbreviation in Chinese language.

EDIT: See below for Chinese characters.

 

[Constantine]

I know that they revolted under the Qing dyansty in the mid 1800s. Also I understand that they a cultural minority in China that was never assimalted by the Han Chinese.

 

[lobster]

That's right. The uprising was defeated in 1759. The Qing empire banned Han people from going there, but some Hui people actually migrated to and settled in the Han homeland. Although today some live Han livestyles and even have Han names, they are faithful muslims and have a unique identity. A very high profile Kuomintang general in the 40's and 50's even had Hui roots.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

The Uighurs do not equate the Hui. The Hui can also be Chinese Muslims in the NW region (Gansu etc); probably descendants of Arabs and Central Asians. The Uighurs were further westwards, in Xinjiang. The Hui were mostly in NW China proper, but also spread out into other regions.

Long ago, the Uighurs used to lord over the steppes, but they were overthrown by the Khirgiz (I think). They then settled in the Tarim basin and remained there hence.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Yeah, the Uighurs were overthrown by the Kyrgyz. They divided into three groups; two went east into Gansu and the other went west into the Qarluq lands, making them migrate into Uighuria. Because of the migrations, no one can be entirely sure if the modern Uighurs are descended from the ancient Uighurs who later migrated back, or if they are just predominately Qarluqs and later arriving tribes.

 

[LouLong]

Hui = ethnic Chinese with Muslim faith (originally they were probably children of some Mulsim merchants (Arabs, Persians or Turkish). Albeit the PRC did not recognize religions (the opium of the people !), Hui were attributed a nationality within the PRC, distinct from the Han (ethnic Chinese) because of religious grounds only. ???? They even have a special administrative region NingXia where about half of lived 10 years ago.

Uigher or Uighur (I am more familiar with the latter spelling) : Non-Chinese Muslim people living in the autonomous province of XinJiang in NW China. Albeit they are traditionally of Turkish origins, there are other minorities that have other origins such as a small Tadjik minority (Persian ethnicity). So Uighur is more a general term used by no Uighur people. They have had long and complicated relationships with China. The popular character "Afanti" in China is actually a Uighur and he is been part of Chinese small stories for centuries.

The main current issues are :
- whatever tribe they are from they are all Muslims and there is a general turmoil among Muslims under non-Muslim rule everywhere.
- the ex-soviet Uighurs have obtained their independance (Khazakhs, Tadjiks, Khrighizs, Uzbeks) and the people under Chinese rule are the same people and would like independance too, sometimes to reunite with the ex-Soviet republics (at least it is what they say) that help them.
- China does not want that, especially since it needs resources to fuel its growth and for geoostrategical and "face" reasons. There is gaz in the Tarim bassin for instance.

 

[thetrooper]

Thanks people!

More than I could hope for

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The usual English spelling is "Uyghur"; you'll find even a full Wikipedia entry ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur ).

 

[thetrooper]

The usual English spelling is "Uyghur"; you'll find even a full Wikipedia entry ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur ).

I guess I'll have to tell Gayle Lynds, who wrote the Altman Code then. Coz he spelled it Uigher

Thanks for the link Doc, the article is credible?

 

[lobster]

Ah my history knowledge is mainly from Chinese language sources, so I may not know too much about English names.

More Chinese words. Listed are some related words with their pronounciation in modern day mandarin Chinese.

The words (1) Hui-ren (Hui people), Hui-jiao (Hui religion) do come from Hui-he. Hui is the first character and abbreviation for Hui-he. In modern day Chinese language, "Hui" generally refers to Chinese non-Han muslims, but in the Tang dynasty, it meant specifically the Hui-he tribe. Hui-he is renamed to (3) Wei-wu-er in the Yuan dynasty, and used in Ming and Qing official documents. I just looked up the "Twenty-Four History", and in Yuan-Shi (History of Yuan) it does say Wei-wu-er and Hui-he were the same people. (4) is used in modern day Chinese. They probably changed it because (3) and (4) reads very similar, and (3) literally means "afraid of my son" in Han language.

Today we use (4) to address them because the word "Hui" has a much boarder meaning now.

But notice that these are modern day mandarin pronounciations. The spoken dialect used by the emperor and the court officials changes from dynasty to dynasty. The Tang dialect is more similar to modern day Hakka dialect than to mandarin. (2) was the official Tang translation of that tribe's name, but it could sound a bit different back then. (3) and (4) pronounce more or less the same.

So, all of (2), (3) and (4) could have pronounced pretty much similar to Uighur or Uyghur, at their respective times.

 

[thetrooper]

@lobster: I'm impressed!