- Nov 15, 2023
Hello, привіт, привет !
(last update: November 2023)
This is my first serious project. I want to recreate the Ruso-Ukrainian conflict in ToT. I prefer MGE as a game itself, but for modding I'll learn ToT. The differences are not big, the advantages huge. I might dumb down to MGE as a second project actually.
========= THREAD RULES ========================================================================================================
My idea is NOT to politicise or give my own views on the conflict. In fact, you will never know what they are But here comes a BIG set of rules on this thread:
For obvious reasons, this one is a complicated one considering it is happening as we speak. For this reason, I request these rules to be followed by people on the thread:
- no political talk
- I say again, NO POLITICAL TALK
- the only thing I will accept is "Sedna, this might be seen as pro-this, or pro-that." If the argument is valid I will happily correct any mishap (see below)
- other talk is obviously okay (encouragements, chiming in to tell me this or that can be improved, help in creation sprites etc)
- talks about testing, helping, proposing units, LUA, etc
On my end:
- no political balance towards one side or the other: the experience should only feel like you can win whichever nation you are using, and events will no dictate there's a good, or a bad side, because it's a war and in all wars there are grey areas. The mod will be black and white in the sense the player will do what he want, and objective events will happen only, without judgement, without points of view gathered from either side.
- there might even be alternative version of the conflict should the player want (for instance, shaking up the position of Belarus) which also removes the scenario from being one sided.
- starting position is objectively based on summer 2023 but the player does what he wants with that.
- deliveries of units will be as per they happen on the west side (I'm talking help from other countries). On the east side, production will be attempted to be realistic and/or matched. There are mercenary factions allied with either side because that's factual too.
- tech will be on the west side in the idea that ukraine unlocks ability to produce units (as it is doing, objectively, by creating new factories together with investors). On the east, tech will be as per typical Civ2 tech: trying to improve the current units.
- some tech will be social/roleplay that are based on objective events. For ex sanctions on russia, negociations with NATO to bring this or that. On the east, they would reflect decisions taken by the government from a civilian/social point of view. Also will simulate with some civil/social tech the counter to sanctions, by increasing say improved sales of goods towards india and china to help the economy.
- as you have understood, the idea is to start at a point, leave it objective, and add different advantages for each sides which are objectively representative (ukraine receives more help than it can develop tech, russia can develop tech as per before albeit with sanctions).
- The rest will be up to the player. In fact I do plan on adding a layer of political choice up to the player so he can tailor or shake the whole scenario (trigger an end to the conflict, create his own version of the conflict alliances, decide Belarus allies officially with either side, whatever, for their own experience of the map).
- For now there is no precise plan to tune the events to follow real life events except things that, in a Civ2 games, escalade the quality of units the faction gets, or wonders and city improvements.
- TL;DR, the emphasize is a quality scenario, with an enjoyable map, set of units, a possibility for development of units from both sides (possibly to unrealistic use of stealth futuristic units such as 5th gen units, 6th gens drones etc, just because why not)
I want to emphasize I am myself affected as my gf is stuck in the east, and we are not seeing each other because of that. She's half ukrainian, half russian. So I do understand the sentiment of some people, especially from the IRL factions involved. My idea here is no to propagate a propaganda nor a personal view, but create a good gigantic map, a good representation (+/- things to make it Civ2 compatible) of the situation as of summer 2023, and let the player do their things.
======== BACK TO MODDING ========================================================================================================
Balance of rules
I want it to be easy to understand and play right away. I find a lot of scenarios are difficult to master right away. I want the units and their cost to feel similar to known units (like the conscript unit, the marine, armor etc). New units will be improved versions that the player will understand and pick up from.
I am considering altering the rules to avoid a few things: it might be longer to increase a city size. It will be harder to go beyond sizes (like aqueduct/sanitation) to avoid popping cities everywhere and tripling the production, but it will be possible to create mini cities which will look and feel like military outposts. A costly permit to create a unit (replacing the aqueduct) will be needed. Because of the timeline of the scenario (a turn = a day or something) this will be a very very big investment if done, to discourage players from overly developping a country with regular Civ2 rules.
Buildings will be similar, but they will make sense to a player picking up the game. I'm considering making the pictures similar to their regular equivalent in color so the player feels what is a Temple equivalent, what is a Collosseum equivalent etc.
Wonders will exists in a different way, some pre-given because they make sense (like UN to NATO only, Pyramids to NATO or neutral to avoid ukraine or russia getting the advantagge I don't like etc.).
- Map is huge: I went for 140x220 (30800 tiles) so that the map can be drawn realistically according to a slightly vertically compressed copy of GPS maps. It allows for a total war if you desire to go away from realism!
It is WIP and I'm trying to have it realistic with hills, forest, water, placement of cities, routes, highways (railroads) etc. Cross checking with many scientific maps to make a map that is realistic but also makes sense from a Civ2 map perspective.
- Events might start before the ukrainian invasion of this year, after russia fortified the east. Reason is: I would like a front being well defined in the east and southeast of ukraine.
There will be regular pop of units on both sides and the allied, to stimulate the front. Some possible realistic events might be simulated as possible.
NATO neutral in the war but allied with ukraine in effect (technically in peace so they cannot enter the area) (sends units, and i'd like to find if scripting "unit passing through thesee coordinates = become ukrainian". Play as a ukrainian helper
Western/Nato Help / Mercenaries (non official help to ukraine) allied with ukraine using NATO units or militia that will actually be active
RUS help (mercenaries, allied with russia, adn actively helping)
Neutral cities, TBD who and how, maybe will disappear for another entity. And idea is to block the ability to attack them unless total war is unlock by the player. They could also serve as frontline blockage east of ukraine considering official's ukraine limit in the conflict would be its own borders: they shouldn't attack russia on their side.
Belarus peace/allied with russia but not at war with ukraine uless players wants to
Barbarians as local rebels (either place)
divided between regular units + ukrainian units + russian units + NATO units (more balanced but expensive)
Actually will use a lot of @Fairline amazing work. He just so happened to create a lot of russo-ukrainian units which is absolutely amazing!
Divided between ukrainian tech (which is shared with NATO: it essentially unlocks the delivery of units. For ex: Ukraine unlocks research "Leopard tank negociations" and it can now produce Leopard tanks). I might script it so it can only happen in a place with a "Tank Factory". Nato already has all these techs. I'm considering long term options to escalate the tech. Also, missiles for ex will be better and better with maybe 2/3 better versions able to reach further beyond the line to simulate the ability of either side to shoot further and further (with HIMARs, SCALP, soon american cruise missiles, etc, as well as russia developping its own new weapons and producing more like hypersonic missiles or long distance missiles). Also, airplanes (F16 used as bombers initially only, as it is expected to happen etc, while russia already has its whole roster of units).
and Russian tech which is regular improvement of their arsenal (for instance: better units, or cheaper for the same price for ex "Conscription" would lead to obtaining cheaper conscript units. Conscription 2 would be a new round where you could buy even cheaper units, but as they go cheaper, they are less powerful (negative effect of going deeper in the pool of available able body men). Going for the mass and holding the front.
I'm considering finding a way to create missile launchers act as holders of missiles, but without the need to produce those missiles/rockets. Maybe through scripting by giving them one per turn as a basic mechanic? Maybe by doing it only when they fortify, so when a missile launcher truck moves, he's not firing, but when he fortifies, he now produces rockets/missiles each turn from his location ? That would actually be an amazing way of making this kind of units good. I'm considering if Howitzers would work similarly with a short distance?
Obtaining tech by taking a city will be OFF. Obvious things like that.
I do want the player to be able to switch governments. Not sure I can affect them (i will if i find out i can)
Despotism / Anarchy will be renamed.
Monarchy will be renamed as an option to go to war easily if needed (not sure it would help). It could be kept for neutral countries.
Republic will be renamed as an option to retreat and concentrate on economy a bit.
Fundamentalism will be an option should you want to go full on offensive for some time without dealing with home troubles. It will allow the production of decent conscripts (to replace the Fanatics). Essentially the president of ukraine declaring total conscription and focusing only on production. It might be the starting point for the ukrainian side considering the real state of the government is obviously a martial law (that could be the name of this government).
Communism should only be available to the east (Russia/China+others) as a balanced option to maintain a war and a decent tech and production too. But Russia should be able to choose too between this and the new version of "fundamentalism" whenever they want to sacrifice tech for units.
Democracy will be available but of course might not be the best option to maintain a big army even with the equivalent of Universal Suffrage. Considering the idea of how the game considers democracy it might only be available for factions in a state of peace.
To simulate the ability to create outposts for war purpose, new cities they will be tiny and long to grow and act when they are little like advanced outposts more than expected big cities.. Aqueduct and Sanitation will be needed at way before 8 and 12, maybe at the sizes when their logo change from a military camp to a little city, and will be renamed and expensive, so that the actual creation of a city will be an big investment, as opposed to keeping it below the size just to have a garrison and defense an area or produce a few units. It's to avoid popping super cities everywhere away from the front since the map is big, these cities would become huge, during a time of war which makes no sense, but it should allow building some outposts for war efforts and should you need it, pay the price to extend it to a bigger size..
The balance will be slightly adjusted.
Desert, Glacier, Jungle, Swamp will be revamped as 4 available custom tiles:
- to simulate the richness of ukraine's grain and its eastern riches
Plain will be balanced with gree grassland, maybe by adding 1 trade and some tiles will exist that are super trade tiles version of the plains to simulate grain production. That way grass vs plain might be less of an obvious choice if the green has a shield.
EDIT: with ToTPP, I might not even need to do that and just use the 5 extra tiles. The basic ones might be remade still.
The extra new tiles can't be engineered. They are
1 - one new tile for Rich plains (plains that look like full of wheat in the ukrainian area) will produce an extra trade or food or both, but I don't want this OP either so I'll make it essentially a grassland + shield + 1 extra trade
2 - one new tile for rich minerals (like moutain ore on steroids, rare but big boost to a city) that we believe some areas of ukraine have and russian wants to control.
3 - one new tile for "Village". It would be a super tile, looks like a miny city. Good balanced tile (2/2/2 maybe) with defense boost, like a mountain. Can help you hold an area, simulates urban warfare. Would be anywher I wouldn't consider putting a real city, but simulating a local village or mini city as per the real maps.
4 - one new tile available for further idea
EDIT: more possibilities now that I switch to ToTPP