UNGY-04 Who do they think they are?

[mystyfly]

Not exactly pleased with my turns...

IHT
I switch to FR.

1(IBT)
Nappy cancels deal


(1)
I switch research to Aestetics
Give cows to wang for corn
Give fur + wheat to nappy for wine + 7gpt

2(IBT)
WK gets his wish (we were getting 9gpt for spice from toku)


(2)
Aestetics > Literature

(3)
Literature > back to Steel

(4)
WK starts SciMeth (3 turns)
Nap + WK become pleased
I notice we won't have the required # of forges. Queue up one in Xupqi and Shangian to be next turn...

(5)
Our worker get new outfits while our only Spy (on the way to the goody hut ) somehow changes his gender... (Steel > SM)

IW gets started in Inland City

6(IBT)
Joao + Nap make peace, Toku DOWs Joao

(7)
We get the mother lode event in our gold mine on the nearly unsettled continent, getting us between 150 and 200g.
We pop the hut getting us another 51g


We also get another 125g from razing that useless barb city on the southern cape


(8)
Now I can promote our units we get a lvl-4 (CR-3) mace


I immediately start HE in the city NE of cap.
I also notice shaka would make peace for ~350g

9(IBT)
Nappy wants chemistry. We tell him to research it himself


(10)
SM > communism.

---

There weren't many fights. One or the other caravel and two galleys sunk, 4 lbows (barbs) killed, but that's it. Probabely the most action saw our spy, popping the hut and about to pop another one next turn . We have 4 (IIRC) maces and a sword on the other conti moving towards that other barb city that should be razed. We need some settlers up there. Also I picked a frigate as next build up there as a placeholder (and forgot to change it ) but it got quite some overflow and a forest chop so we might as well finish it probabely.

Capital got a drydock and should build some galleons and a few frigates. Production is ok there. Inland City has quite some issues otoh, IW takes still 28 turns @ max hammers configuration. I believe it was a mistake to put it there... HE otoh only takes 10 turns, with one forest to be chopped next turn.

We might consider upgrading our old units if we go full military mode. We can easily get the cash and production really is horrible.

Shaka is still willing to make peace. I think we should agree some time (after sinking some more ships) so the price drops however (I still don't think we should finish him off)


Shaka just made himself a slightly more juicy target by rushing versailles during my set tough.

A big reason to pass him by is to go after charly who is teching pretty good. He is on a continent with joao and toku, the two others are at war atm. A look at this screen


told me we could distract charly which costs about that much


or liberalism + some gold. I think we should go for ît when we're ready to declare on him. Liberalism will be researched by WK before long, he's 1 turn away from the physics freebee and I doubt he'll want to pass up that communism freebee too.



This screen shows that we should easily manage to research at 100% until communism is in by selling some techs. We should really hope to get communism before WK starts it if possible as it loses priority when the GSpy is gone and gives us more time to (slowly) build the kremlin.

View attachment UNGY-04 AD-1400.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[pigswill]

Looks fine to me...

Maybe try scimeth for war as WiKi already has that tech. A liberalism monoply (however short) improves our odds of communism first.

Something I was thinking (belatedly) was combining drydocks and HE and IW all in Mutal, convert Mutal to workshops (SP would help) and have it build our navy while our other cities focus on commerce to get to democracy asap.

We're going to need guilds (for grocers)and banking (for banks) to run our rush buy economy.

 

[silverbullet]

I noticed that Mutal is working bronze, while Lakaham is working 2 towns. Lakahama has no university, and we are still in bureaucracy, so all commerce tiles should be focused in Mutal to get the full benefit of our commerce, and get HE faster.

Pigswill:
In general I think it's almost always better to build HE and IW in separate cities. +100% production in 2 cities works better than +200% in one city usually. Also, one city will produce just troops while the other will produce wonders or other high production buildings/projects.

Specifically regarding Mutal- it is our best science city:


I would hate to see our mature towns go to waste there for workshops. I think it would be a mistake to focus it on production. Oxford is the wonder we want there.

As a side note, I just wanted to tell you I went to buy a burger today, and one of the optional toppings on the menu was "CHIPOTLE".

 

[Rusten]

As a side note, I just wanted to tell you I went to buy a burger today, and one of the optional toppings on the menu was "CHIPOTLE".

So you're using it after all.... (that explains why we have so much surplus spice rather than other resources).

As we're still in bureaucracy I concur with silverbullet -- Mutal should take control of the matured cottages.
I think we should found more cities on our newly discovered island -- there are several good spots.




Edit: Toku has 12 gpt available, that's an excellent opportunity to get rid of some of our spice.

 

[silverbullet]

Roster:
Mystyfly - Just played
Ungy - up next
Rusten - on deck
Silverbullet
Pigswill
Atropos - still away?

 

[silverbullet]

Rusten: Toku is WK worst enemy if I remember correctly. Also WK demanded that we stop trading with him and we agreed. Do you think it's worth annoying him for 12gpt?

 

[ungy]

Ok- I got it--I'll post something up a little later.

 

[ungy]

OK-
work on the MM a bit--get Mutal working commerce.
I think 2 settlers for island--don't think we settle anything this set but I'd be for the clam/iron/(pigs) site and the 2 FP/gold/oil spot to the s.
I'd keep the barb city--it's on desert and I don't think it's worth a raze/rebuild at this stage.
Prioritize getting unis out--we we need unfortunately to stall IW and HE to get the unis we need. I think IW is stalled further as I can't see where else to build the Kremlin. I don't think it's worth risking the kremlin to build the IW first.

I think the traded with my worst enemy doesn't apply to resources--just tech. Can someone confirm this? So trade with Toku.

Tech trade--we should pick up guilds + from Charlie for SM

Pull frigates back--the idea is to take out some Zulu units on our territory then get peace.

I'm leaning toward keeping bureau when we take SP but I think it's a close one. Bureau is slightly better now, and Oxford will keep it better for the mid term. I'm thinking that offsets the advantage from doing 2 civics for one anarchy--what do you guys think?
Long term I think we want FS.

Plan to play tomorrow.

 

[Rusten]

I think the traded with my worst enemy doesn't apply to resources--just tech. Can someone confirm this? So trade with Toku.

This is true, at least I never got any negative diplomacy from it, we won't annoy WK.

 

[silverbullet]

Good to know about the resource trade. I think world map or lump sums of gold do count toward that though (they are on the same trade scale as techs)

I agree about bureacracy for now - with the capital outputting more than twice the commerce of every other city, a quick hammer bonus for oxford is the way to go.

Good call on the frigates - the sooner we get peace with Shaka, the more trade we get from open borders with him (we have some cities with +1 trade routes still!!!).

If there is no time for IW, lets go without it, let's just hope we can complete Kremlin in time this way - we might want to workshop 2 plain tiles in Mayapan to get it in time. I remember there are 2 immature cottages there. 1 of them is 8 turns to hamlet, and the other 18 turns to village.

 

[Rusten]

Good to know about the resource trade. I think world map or lump sums of gold do count toward that though (they are on the same trade scale as techs).

Yeah, trades with gold will get you into trouble the same way trades with tech does -- it's just the 'resource for gold' trades that I've never had any trouble with.

 

[ungy]

OK-here we go:
switch Lakamha to uni and also Mayapan to uni.
change mutal to settler.
sell spice to Toku:




Charlie must be researching SM as he declines this:




we trade it for guilds.


Unfortunately the barbs leave their city and kill 3 units of ours.

Joao takes Braga from Toku.

1410 mace kill injured barb lb but takes damage and is killed.

IBT Toku takes Lisboa. Hmm.

1420 Shaka has knights now. We don't really have a good counter so the frigates go back out.
I whip the frigate in Izan to try and sink some Zulu ships.

1430 We get a couple of Zulu caravels.

1440 we get another Zulu caravel.
A volcano destroys a couple of villages



1450 I decide on peace with Zulu. Since he has knights now we can't mess around and let him land on our continent. Not much to be gained by keeping going:





Communism in:





1460 settler built in Mutal, revolt to SP. Napoleon will claim territory on our island.




1470 ...

I decide to break it here. I'm a little unsure of how to proceed and RL is calling.

Kind of a disappointing set .

We'll have the requisite 6 unis on this turn so my plan was to start Oxford in Mutal next turn.

 

[ungy]

save is here:

 

[Rusten]

Have the save and am aware that I'm up next. Input is very welcome, I never really play this strategy but I guess we'll want democracy next (US). I'll watermill one of the riverside farms near Mayapan (same food but more hammers) and workshop the other one. This should speed the Kremlin quite a lot (although this should've been done already -- there's no reason to have a farm where we could put a watermill). Let's put workshops on the tiles lost to the volcano?

 

[pigswill]

Democracy next and switch to US asap, may also be worth considering emancipation. If it looks like we may lose the Kremlin you then have the option of switching to 100% cash for a few turns to cash rush it. Markets, grocers and banks are important for 100% cash multiplier so its worth trading for guilds and banking if possible.

 

[ungy]

Democracy next and switch to US asap, may also be worth considering emancipation. If it looks like we may lose the Kremlin you then have the option of switching to 100% cash for a few turns to cash rush it. Markets, grocers and banks are important for 100% cash multiplier so its worth trading for guilds and banking if possible.

guilds we have--I chose not to trade for banking since I didn't want to take a worst enemy hit with Nappy.

I think we're probably OK on the Kremlin.
Remember that communism requires lib, and I don't think either is an AI priority w/o the freebie.
So we should not trade lib until we're safe on Kremlin.

 

[ungy]

Have the save and am aware that I'm up next. Input is very welcome, I never really play this strategy but I guess we'll want democracy next (US). I'll watermill one of the riverside farms near Mayapan (same food but more hammers) and workshop the other one. This should speed the Kremlin quite a lot (although this should've been done already -- there's no reason to have a farm where we could put a watermill). Let's put workshops on the tiles lost to the volcano?

yes as I don't play this way that's part of the reason for my confusion.
also the weed in not getting watermills ready.
However, I'm not sure we need to hurry to democracy--as we won't have the kremlin for a while we could pick something else up first if we need it.
It does seem like we ought to be able to trade for banking--I guess it's a pretty cheap one though so the trade is not critical.

I played a couple of rushbuy SG's with Mutineer and it was pretty effective to rushbuy commerce buldings once kremlin was in.
In one game we basically shut off tech and rushbought $ buildings then units then went to war. I think this one we had too much land and was emp/warlords so probably not a good comp. The other was a really crappy start on immortal/warlords and we pulled out a miracle space due to aggressive diplo and great luck. Never built a modern army.

What is our general timeframe on war?

Seems like we don't want to overbuild units if we won't use them this era.

 

[silverbullet]

Democracy is good even before rush buying/kremlin. We get +1 hammer for EVERY town, and we get the towns to mature faster with emancipation. I don't see any other tech we should prioritize over it really. Banking may be a reasonable detour to get some more cash, but I think we should focus on building more settlers now rather than banks, which we can rush buy later.

I would settle aggressively on the island, to make sure Napoleon doesn't steal more good spots. We will probably workshop spam those cities. I think we should spam coastal cities on this island, perhaps razing the internal city, or eliminating it with culture (we might want to keep it though depending on where nappy settles).


Actually, I think razing the "useless" barbarian city was a mistake. Looking at the city screen of our only island city, it makes +12 in trade routes from INTERNAL trade routes, while costing only 4 before courthouse. Also, rush buying military is better done in a crappy city instead of a good city, so the good cities can use traditional production.

 

[pigswill]

Workshops vs cottages will depend on how much more research we anticipate we'll need. Workshops will provide more production through direct hammers than cottages etc through rush-buying. On the other hand under emancipation cottages will grow quicker to get the late game bonusses for villages/towns and its probably more efficient to rush buy production than build research. I'm not exactly sure on that one depending on forges, factories etc but then you have to figure in pollution and health buildings. Too much maths at this time of the morning.
We might be able to carve out an empire just with grens and cannons in which case not much more research is needed.

 

[mystyfly]

I don't see how we could have lost those units to those barbs. Oh well.
We must make sure we get to that barb city first. I'd still raze it as it's not coastal and there are several nice coastal spots, especially when settlers are already on the way.

I guess democracy is our next tech, and try to somehow get the kremlin built.

IMO best war targets are charly > joao > toku, especially if we manage to bribe charly vs joao and joao later vassalizes to toku (charly will be at war with both right?). They'll be happily fighting eachother and reduce their SODs to dust, afterwards, we bring our modern units in and clean up.