Unic Civics

[Baldyr]

I don't want much of anything, but if someone has a complete setup in need of (Python) scripting I think I could get it working, given that I manage to get around to it. I don't even really know/remember who wanted this in the first place, but it does sound like a good idea and a fun programming project nonetheless. If that person (or someone else) gets all the design and XML stuff in order it shouldn't be too much work to code.

It needs to be a complete design however.

 

[Cía]

Sry for not being around for awhile but I've had a spaniard exchange student living in my house and have therfore been busy all week. Now that I got back I was thrilled to see all the replies on the thread and the fact that many people have getting interested in this idea.

What I want to ask now is if some of you would like to work together with me and collect all ideas around here to make a mod?

 

[need my speed]

Well, I would, but as I'm using different base civics, that wouldn't be a very good idea I guess... I guess Inquisition Order (from the first post) could perhaps remove all non state religion (instead of merely preventing their spread), as well as all non state religion buildings (excluding holy cities of different religions, their religion and shrine would 'survive'). It could require a state religion, and perhaps give a diplomacy bonus with all leaders of the same religion... And a negative modifier with people of another religion (+2 and -1 perhaps?). All this isn't doable with only the xml.

My theocracy (and all other civics) is different from the original game however, does that pose a problem?

 

[Keinpferd]

…would like to work together with me and collect all ideas around here…

Aren't we already? It would be great, if we had a modular Python mod, that can be combined with varying xml to fit different preferences and usages. For example, in my ancient mod Spanish Inquisition Order would be in the wrong place, although it's a good idea for a UC, while Roman Republic was another UC, that ceased to exist in its very peculiar form (and would feel wrong being used by a civ in modern times).

That leads me to the question: Can UCs go obsolete, technically?

 

[need my speed]

Well, that would be kind of counterproductive. I'll be the Romans, they have a better Slavery civic. Oh wait, it obsoletes, well, then I'll be Persia, because they have a normal Slavery civic. But I'm sure she (Baldyr?) is capable of coding such things.

 

[Asaf]

Well, I'm still going to code UC's in C++, but it won't be Mac-compatible, but the civic ideas themselves could probably be shared with the Python mod.

 

[Keinpferd]

Well, that would be kind of counterproductive. I'll be the Romans, they have a better Slavery civic. Oh wait, it obsoletes, well, then I'll be Persia, because they have a normal Slavery civic. But I'm sure she (Baldyr?) is capable of coding such things.

Huh? Immortals obsolete, too (strengthwise), and that wouldn't distract you from playing Persians. Many things in Civ grant you a mere contemporary benefit. Baldyr is a boy, by the way.

 

[Baldyr]

Yeah, somebody basically needs to complete some setup, any setup. Then I can do that one. Anyone else will be able to easily adapt that code to any imaginable setup of their own.

The thing is that I don't have time to participate in any actual design work on this idea. So it needs to be a complete design in need of implementation. That'll be done i a jiffy.

 

[need my speed]

Huh? Immortals obsolete, too (strengthwise), and that wouldn't distract you from playing Persians. Many things in Civ grant you a mere contemporary benefit. Baldyr is a boy, by the way.

Yes, but normal Horse Archers (Immortals replace them, right?) also obsolete. So unless you want to obsolete all civics at some point, obsoleting unique civics would be counterproductive in my opinion.

I'll think up some civics, but it'll take a while (and will be based on my own base civics).

 

[Cía]

I've some thoughts about most of each civs unic civic, either what it would be in place for, what it would do, when in the game it would come etc. Here is some examples:

Persia: Satrapy (Vassalage) extra bonus: -40% maintenance

Mongolia: Nomadic Horde (Nationhood) extra bonus: comes with Horseback Riding, +2 exp to all mounted units

Arabia: Khalifate (Theocracy) extra bonus: +2 science/priest, +2 health/city

Egypt: Pharaonic Rule (Hereditary Rule) extra bonus: comes with Priesthood, +25% wonder production

Spain: The Inquisition Order (Theocracy) extra bonus: +50% espionage point, +1 gold/priest, -25% war weariness, but high upkeep

I also have some ideas to make some civs have their unic civic as default, like native america (decentralization), celtia (tribalism) and sumeria (despotism). The two goals I have is to make the overall game more historicaly accurate (so certain civs like egypt and sumeria have thier best times in the early game and other like america in the late) but also to make each civ more unic and different to play.

 

[Asaf]

I added as a sample (not sure if it makes sense):
England: British Royalty (Hereditary Rule) - extra bonus: +25% great people points

 

[Keinpferd]

One thing that comes to my mind when thinking of Unique Civics is the link between a civic yielded bonus and a certain building, like Nationhood gives a +2 happiness from barracks. Wouldn't it make sense to tie some of the benefits you get from Unique Civics to Unique Buildings, then? If the Khmer run their UC, they'd get additional goodness out of their baray, whatever that was, as the Byzantine of their hippodromes and the Dutch of the dike.

 

[Asaf]

One thing that comes to my mind when thinking of Unique Civics is the link between a civic yielded bonus and a certain building, like Nationhood gives a +2 happiness from barracks. Wouldn't it make sense to tie some of the benefits you get from Unique Civics to Unique Buildings, then? If the Khmer run their UC, they'd get additional goodness out of their baray, whatever that was, as the Byzantine of their hippodromes and the Dutch of the dike.

I like this idea.
The UC could also (alternatively?) reduce the unit cost of the UU (or completely disable it).

 

[Baldyr]

Good idea(s)!

 

[need my speed]

Yeah, good ideas. For the British, I would do something that reduces distance maintenance, with perhaps something naval related.

EDIT: Perhaps a free Redcoat (if they are available, otherwise, you get no unit) when a city is founded on a different land mass than that where you're capital is, or, if that leads to too much exploit, only if you have more cities on another continent. Or perhaps only if there are also other cities on the continent (barbarians or other civilizations).

 

[Cía]

Y nice ideas!

As far as I se it there is three parts in making this mod. First we need to come up with ideas regarding all unic civics, then it needs to be modded and with that also comes adding art like buttons etc.

 

[Keinpferd]

I also have some ideas to make some civs have their unic civic as default, like native america (decentralization), celtia (tribalism) and sumeria (despotism). The two goals I have is to make the overall game more historicaly accurate (so certain civs like egypt and sumeria have thier best times in the early game and other like america in the late) but also to make each civ more unic and different to play.

I agree with the goals completely, but when I'm reading this, I suddenly understand, why need my speed was having doubts about the unique civic's obsolescence: if these are choiceless default civics, of course players will think twice before adopting a unique civic that will fall into obsolescence soon. Likewise, it sounded as if Asaf had civic classes in mind with UCs to replace commonly available civics, like Redcoats replace riflemen. Maybe it would be better to leave all that to the players (and the AI hopefully). The UCs must only be attractive enough to run them. They provide a temporary boost to a civ until they obsolete and will thus render the ups and downs of civilizations more realistically and less staged as through Golden Ages.

We're discussing some Unique Civics ideas on the German forum, too, and I'm going to translate and post them here as soon as there are a few more of them and they're getting a bit more shaped.

 

[Asaf]

Likewise, it sounded as if Asaf had civic classes in mind with UCs to replace commonly available civics, like Redcoats replace riflemen. Maybe it would be better to leave all that to the players (and the AI hopefully). The UCs must only be attractive enough to run them. They provide a temporary boost to a civ until they obsolete and will thus render the ups and downs of civilizations more realistically and less staged as through Golden Ages.

EDIT: As opposed to unique abilities (like seasnake has in his G&G mod), which are something more similar to traits (they actually are traits), that should influence the entire civilization gameplay style.

 

[need my speed]

So, will we have civics that do go obsolete or don't? I think don't is better, because, as I've said, you might consider slavery (for example) to be so good that you won't play with a civilization with an unique civic that replaces slavery because unique civics, and thus this unique slavery civic, obsolete.

 

[Asaf]

I don't think civics should obsolete in the sense that you can't choose it anymore (like units).

I do think civics should obsolete in the sense that there's a better civic to the newer situation and era (same as regular civics in the game).