Unique Ability Elimination Thread

[SnowKomodo]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Phoenician Heritage: 2
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 9
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 5
Nobel Prize: 11

Sun Never Sets: Some may disagree but if your navy is properly prepared then you don't even need the extra movement. If I took Ship of the line into consideration then I might have a different answer (this is also why I think the overall elimination thread makes the most sense, because most civs UA's work well with their UU's but what are you gonna do). Like what I said last time: it feels more like a luxury than a necessity (technically, every UA is but SNS more so than others and at this point I gotta give a reason).

Achaemenid Legacy: Has someone ever compared the difference in golden age length to a regular civ (assuming happiness stays in the positive and no great artists are used). I would have to imagine it's pretty significant by game's end - it certainly feels that way. Also, I play with both Polynesia and Persia enough (both civs with a 10% combat bonus in their UA) to say that the 10% is more significant than people give it credit for. At the very least in the early game

 

[woodshadows]

I have played Sweden - I had been under the impression that great people [Aka civilian units in general] wouldn't be under the same effect as units from the city state menu. I haven't gifted many great people as Sweden I admit though... simply because why should I when I am focusing on great people that matter to the empire more (Great Scientists and Great Engineers) than crap great people. {I prefer to keep an extra great admiral for healing purposes in MP wars, an extra great gen for citadeling, the more options the better - and Nobel Prize actually ends up focusing on less options} A Great General is great for bullying a city state before you gift it - so you can get in the later game a decent gold (+ if you pledge its little influence lost ultimately) and then proceed to gift the unit. So thanks for telling me that the feature works for great people as well - but it still doesn't change facts.

And like I have said before. In multiplayer you can NOT afford to go honor [at least to start] 90% of the time. Liberty and tradition are too key to compete with the fact that against actual opponents gaining momentum is everything. Going honor for the great general is not only risking a ton and giving you less payout in MP and in my opinion harder SP - but one can normally gain a decent degree of city state influence by simple city state tasks (clearing barb camps, trapping city state workers so they get captured by barbs, etc)

I don't get why players who prefer multiplayer adopt a sort of elitist tone when discussing civ strengths, when this game is really more suited to single player to begin with and has obviously been designed with single player gameplay primarily in mind (think of all of the features/UA's etc which lead to people complaining 'it has no utility in mp!!'). I don't go so far as to discount a civs strength or weakness in multiplayer, however I think some perspective should be maintained and people who go far in the extreme other direction and discount a civ simply because it's no good in multiplayer (nevermind if it's amazing in single player immortal/deity) aren't really doing credit to the game or to those players who primarily play single player (which I would suspect is in a large majority anyhow.. since how many people have the time to play multiplayer games? unless you have a low-input job in front of a computer or play games that go on for months most people aren't going to be in front of their computer all day waiting for their turn to come up). Anyways, that was a tangent, woops. Back on track though, it's surprising that if you played Sweden already and gifted more than one great person that you wouldn't realize that it's a menu option and doesn't require physically moving the unit to the citystate territory. I do agree though Sweden can place some tough choices in front of you - to gift or not to gift, the thing is that it provides flexibility, also not every player is going to be some supergamer who micromanages all of their cities/citizens/specialists to only create great engineers/great scientists, most casual gamers will wind up with a lot of merchants and artists. anyways.. i can't continue, must run, give sweden another try though, even on single player, im sure youre creative enough to make it work, honour opener or no.

 

[Crafty Bison]

It's a joke its above Ingenuity and a few of the others.

Like PoC .

 

[Snoopaloop]

Please, PoC itself is a joke if you're playing at a level the AI gets large bonuses to compensate against human players.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Yup, I'm downvoting this UA a lot because it does not deserve to be this high. You are lucky I guess, that I truly do not dislike it as much as patriach of constantinople...we see were that ended up! And no. It is not the best UA on the board. It's a joke its above Ingenuity and a few of the others. I didn't see you complaining when a certain member tirelessly downvoted that UA!

Oh yeah, that is because it was you. You are the main reason it is eliminated. You have waged the voting war just as I. UA's have fallen by the waysides because of your relentless voting as well, hyprocrit. Me - 8 votes against PH (including this one). You - 10 against Ingenuity. Yes, I wasted tons of time counting through the entire thread.

One of your consistent reasons for PH being so valuable is there are religions that can mix well with it. For the same reason I downvoted PoC so heavily, is why I think that is a lackluster argument for Carthage's UA to be ranked high.

Angry rant over. Phoenician Heritage eliminated.

That comment actually was NOT about you, and my votes for Ingenutiy and Viking Fury were both every other day (with an occational vote elsewhere), meaning one person was able to keep it up (and Gucumatz did for quite some time, countering my every 2 days of -2 with a daily +1).

The sky caved in on VF, just as it has on PH...and Ingenuity. If any UA fell by my hand, it was as Carthage fell to Cicero, though the power of rhetoric, not force. After someone pointed out I had downvoted VF lot, I made a point of no downvoting the same UA twice in two days (I may have done it twice in a row, if I missed a day in the middle).

At any rate, we're down to a top 9, and I see a few surprises, from my standpoint, but there's still a good mix of types of UA's to choose from, from culture, to combat, to diplomacy, from strong early to strong only late, and from "that makes my strategy stronger" to "oh em GEE I have to build my strategy around that since my normal tactics will fail with it."

Sacrificial Captives is likely the most interesting of those left, while Scholars of the Jade Hall can be run with any strategy and practically ignored.

My money is actually on Hellenic League.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Please, PoC itself is a joke if you're playing at a level the AI gets large bonuses to compensate against human players.

It's not, I can make it work just fine on deity, but the time for the discussion of that UA seems to have passed a while ago.

The comment was more about the hypocracy, and that generally people will serial downvote. It happens. Because people genuinely believe that to be the weakest one remaining. It's not like there are multi-million dollar prizes for getting the correct order. The idea of the posts is to see what other people value and how they use the UA's, maybe learn something or impart knowledge on others. it's not for having a massive rant about serial downvoting, especially when the poster is just as guilty as the accusor.

 

[Petiscator]

I actually like Patriarchate of Constantinople. Sure, the AI gets some major bonuses on higher dificulties, but it is hard to find a game where you can't finish liberty/build stonehenge/find and ally a religious CS/build Hagia Sophia/find a faith ruin/settle around a faith NW before the last religion. I agree it might vanish in some cases, but it can be really strong and versatile. Not the best UA - that's why I didn't upvote it - but for certain not the worst. There are so many possibilities around PoC that it can turn into a lot of diferent things!

I don't play Deity, and don't even play Immortal, I'm only Emperor, but I tried Deity once with a random civ. Got Korea. It was post GnK, and I was able to found a religion, without trying. It was the 4/5, I think, but I did, and it was nice, so I'm not convinced that it "is a joke on higher difficulties"

 

[Rooftrellen]

It's not like there are multi-million dollar prizes for getting the correct order.

Thank goodness for that.

The order I'd have guessed is so out of touch with what we actually have as to almost be laughable. I'd never have Population growth in last, and Furor Teutonicus would make my top 10 if I were to consider the civ around it, while PoC would make my top 10 in how I have been considering things (no UU or UB but start bias considered).

Meanwhile there are still 2 UA's left that I would never imagine in the top 10.

Let's have that prize for trivia, rather than guessing what everyone else will say, because I sure has heck don't have a shot in the world at knowing what's good or not for how most people play, that's for sure.

 

[Gucumatz]

I don't get why players who prefer multiplayer adopt a sort of elitist tone when discussing civ strengths, when this game is really more suited to single player to begin with and has obviously been designed with single player gameplay primarily in mind (think of all of the features/UA's etc which lead to people complaining 'it has no utility in mp!!'). I don't go so far as to discount a civs strength or weakness in multiplayer, however I think some perspective should be maintained and people who go far in the extreme other direction and discount a civ simply because it's no good in multiplayer (nevermind if it's amazing in single player immortal/deity) aren't really doing credit to the game or to those players who primarily play single player (which I would suspect is in a large majority anyhow.. since how many people have the time to play multiplayer games? unless you have a low-input job in front of a computer or play games that go on for months most people aren't going to be in front of their computer all day waiting for their turn to come up). Anyways, that was a tangent, woops. Back on track though, it's surprising that if you played Sweden already and gifted more than one great person that you wouldn't realize that it's a menu option and doesn't require physically moving the unit to the citystate territory. I do agree though Sweden can place some tough choices in front of you - to gift or not to gift, the thing is that it provides flexibility, also not every player is going to be some supergamer who micromanages all of their cities/citizens/specialists to only create great engineers/great scientists, most casual gamers will wind up with a lot of merchants and artists. anyways.. i can't continue, must run, give sweden another try though, even on single player, im sure youre creative enough to make it work, honour opener or no.

To be fair, I don't think its overtly useful in Immortal or Deity either (Have only played them in a deity match so far in SP).

If a civ is nearly ENTIRELY useless in an entire aspect of the game - it ought to be amazing in the other aspect singleplayer... which its not. Multiplayer concerns are just as valid. If a UA is amazing in both SP and MP than by logic, it is better than a UA that is amazing/ok (And I don't think its amazing in SP either) and nearly worthless in MP.

====

There are some players here who play a lot of MP that I recognize who have made some points that probably are more recognizable to people who play MP [And if you have played MP - go back and youll see many points are much more subtle in difficult contexts like MP by lots of players]. I am sorry if it comes off as elitist - but in the purest format - the toughest challenge is against Human intelligence - and when something doesn't shine and in fact come off fairly blunt - I think it says something about the trait as a whole.

Of course the majority play SP - but at this stage of elimination - all things need to be considered. Noble Prize just isn't that great overall.

 

[Snoopaloop]

The comment was more about the hypocracy, and that generally people will serial downvote. It happens. Because people genuinely believe that to be the weakest one remaining. It's not like there are multi-million dollar prizes for getting the correct order. The idea of the posts is to see what other people value and how they use the UA's, maybe learn something or impart knowledge on others. it's not for having a massive rant about serial downvoting, especially when the poster is just as guilty as the accusor.

Try reading my post. I completely admit to consistent downvoting. I just don't like hypocrites pretending they are not. Like you say, its a game, and in this game, my goal has been to eliminate.

I have provided quite extensive reasoning behind my posts. If you want to , why don't you focus on those who downvote without providing any benefit towards their reasons (i.e. "its boring" "its flavorless ua").

 

[Crafty Bison]

Try reading my post. I completely admit to consistent downvoting. I just don't like hypocrites pretending they are not. Like you say, its a game, and in this game, my goal has been to eliminate.

I have provided quite extensive reasoning behind my posts. If you want to , why don't you focus on those who downvote without providing any benefit towards their reasons (i.e. "its boring" "its flavorless ua").

Because I don't end up reading through a whole page of how they feel like they've been hard done by.

 

[mposyncckh]

Siberian Riches- +1 I always have a problem with wars so the extra strategic resources allows me to build more powerful units and make use of a cavalry force. The plus 1 production also helps out in the early game. Also if you have extra resources you can sell them. My cousin and I sometimes play team matches and having the extra resources helps me and him.

Sun never sets- -2 By no means a bad ability it simply is not my favorite naval UA. It seems to end up being unneeded fluff in the games. Although it can help with scouting the seas it loses most of its flair by the mid game. The best part of the ability to me is the fact that embarked units gain the extra movement as well. I would rather use my extra iron from Russia to mass produce frigates or the ottomans decreased maintenance to build a higher number of units. The extra spy does little to the English because spies in general are not useful enough to make this ability the best

 

[Snoopaloop]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 6
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 0
Nobel Prize: 11

Siberian Riches- +1 I always have a problem with wars so the extra strategic resources allows me to build more powerful units and make use of a cavalry force. The plus 1 production also helps out in the early game. Also if you have extra resources you can sell them. My cousin and I sometimes play team matches and having the extra resources helps me and him.

Sun never sets- -2 By no means a bad ability it simply is not my favorite naval UA. It seems to end up being unneeded fluff in the games. Although it can help with scouting the seas it loses most of its flair by the mid game. The best part of the ability to me is the fact that embarked units gain the extra movement as well. I would rather use my extra iron from Russia to mass produce frigates or the ottomans decreased maintenance to build a higher number of units. The extra spy does little to the English because spies in general are not useful enough to make this ability the best

For your next vote, could you please follow the format to help out the person posting after you. It is also -3 for your downvote. Thanks Mposyncckh

EDIT: There seems to be some confusion between posts on the last two pages. Seems somehow 2 dead civs were added back in. Can someone double check my edits please.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 6
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 0
Nobel Prize: 11



For your next vote, could you please follow the format to help out the person posting after you. It is also -3 for your downvote. Thanks Mposyncckh

EDIT: There seems to be some confusion between posts on the last two pages. Seems somehow 2 dead civs were added back in. Can someone double check my edits please.

That looks right as far as I can tell. The first vote was a little strange, since it added back in some civs but counted your upvote on the last post of the last page.

 

[mposyncckh]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 6
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 0
Nobel Prize: 11
Sorry about that I have never done one of these elimination posts.

 

[SnowKomodo]

That looks right as far as I can tell. The first vote was a little strange, since it added back in some civs but counted your upvote on the last post of the last page.

I posted before I saw his post and the post before. So I corrected the numbers. But I didn't notice the civs that were eliminated cause I was working as well and wasn't paying full attention, my bad!

 

[Lordleoz]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 7
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Nobel Prize: 11

+Sun Never Sets: one of my top three personal favorite UA (along with Glory of Rome and Seven Cities of Gold). High maneuverability makes amphibious invasion very interesting. Also, the free spy can do many things.

-SotJH: a very boring UA.

 

[Wabango]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 7
Hellenic League: 9
Great Andean Road: 26
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Nobel Prize: 11

Reasons previously stated!

 

[woodshadows]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 8
Hellenic League: 9
Great Andean Road: 23
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Nobel Prize: 11

great andean road - meh, no good for a desert or plains map, so what's the point

sun never sets - fast boats rule

 

[abandag]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 8
Hellenic League: 6
Great Andean Road: 23
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 17
Achaemenid Legacy: 23
Nobel Prize: 11

-3 to Hellenic League: Apologies to those who actually like this UA, but I can't understand how this made it into the top 10. It would be in my bottom 10. This UA just seems so pointless, especially when compared to Father Governs Children, which actually gives you a bonus for having City States. Could someone please explain to me what is so great about this UA. Seriously, I'd like to know, but only if the answer comes from someone who can manage to make a civilized, intelligent response, rather than someone who thinks it's OK to flame other people just because they think differently.

+1 to Achamenid Legacy: Golden Ages are amazing in and of themselves. Getting that extra gold, production, and culture for 50% longer than anyone else is obviously a great UA and doesn't need any special strategies to use. However, by tweaking your normal gamestyle just a little you can end up having an almost perpetual Golden Age. Plus you get extra movement and a combat bonus during that time.