Unit appreciation thread

[Jampine]

soo, as we all know, certain units( and buildings and improvements) are loved or hated by us in general, for example, we love the Longbowmen, and hate Berber cavalry(first ones that came to my head)

So I though'd I'd start a thread so we can discus some of the least liked units, and any fun stuff we know about it, special uses, or maybe why we should give them a chance in our games.

I thought I'd start with the helicopter gunship. Now this isn't hated like certain UU's, but it tends to be at the bottom on the standard units list. This is partly because of the "Lancer upgrade tree sucks" argument. Whilst I do agree that the anti-tank guns are too fussy to use, the fact remains that they upgrade into a GODAMNED HELICOPTER!!!

Now the helicopter is quite good, whilst it does cost aluminum to build, its worth it. These guys aren't supposed to be your main army, but they have helpful abilities. The added damage to Armour is good against tanks, which should be showing up at this point in the game, and ignoring terrain cost makes them quick enough to catch up to sneak attacks from odd angles, or to launch your own. (If the Hakaeplia is upgraded, does its ability stack? if so, a GG with the movement of a helicopter would be ungodly)
all in all, I think the heli is a neat little unit, good for causing distractions, or preventing them. Its a perfect support unit, that should be overlooked. It also has a neat animation :3

 

[uncle bulgaria]

I quite agree on the helicopter gunship, it's a cracking unit for all the reasons in the OP. It also upgrades to the Giant Death Robot

My least favourite are all the horsebased melee ones. I find that the AI tends to concentrate on the spearmen/pikemen line which makes mincemeat out of mounted units. I only ever build a couple for picking off straggler archers/comps and CBM

Ironclad is pretty rubbish, I usually have a light navy until hardbuilding a major force starting at Frigates and Privateers. Before that it's mainly for trade troute protection and exploration.

 

[GoStu]

I'd like to put in a good word for the Jaguar. I think it got eliminated unfairly early from the elimination thread by people who've never used it and are going off pure theory.

They start with a pretty unique healing on kill ability, plus Woodsman. Woodsman is one of those top-end promotions that I wouldn't otherwise have taken. It's no March or Blitz, but is nonetheless very strong. And best of all, they don't go obsolete until the medieval era: you DON'T have to spam them early and ruin your economy: build them late in one turn each.

Overall I'd like to express my appreciation of melee units in general. A couple of cover promotions and those pesky range units turn into tickles. Once you start getting up to the obscene promotion levels with a small melee ball, nothing can kill them.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

I'd like to put in a good word for the Jaguar. I think it got eliminated unfairly early from the elimination thread by people who've never used it and are going off pure theory.

They start with a pretty unique healing on kill ability, plus Woodsman. Woodsman is one of those top-end promotions that I wouldn't otherwise have taken. It's no March or Blitz, but is nonetheless very strong. And best of all, they don't go obsolete until the medieval era: you DON'T have to spam them early and ruin your economy: build them late in one turn each.

Overall I'd like to express my appreciation of melee units in general. A couple of cover promotions and those pesky range units turn into tickles. Once you start getting up to the obscene promotion levels with a small melee ball, nothing can kill them.

I felt the same way. That idea that they're a drag on your economy is kind of nuts imo. Since when is a powerful unit in your main infantry line with 2 nice carry over promotions a drag on a warmonger's economy? It's pretty easy to get them to march and blitz before janissaries or caroleans even come onto the scene. Since everything carries over it's like having a UU the whole game. Even if you don't get iron right away as long as you stick to the woods and jungles they can hold their own against swords and pikes because of that woodsman promotion.

 

[wte80]

Although I would agree that their weakness to the spear line creates some challenges, I still feel that the mounted line is perhaps under-appreciated. They project power via mobility, allowing them to be the flanking forces, the raiders (they're useful for pillaging important enemy improvements or routes), the scouts, and the highly mobile patrol units of their time. However, I do recognize that as a main battle force, mounted units may be lacking: for example, when facing units of the spear line, or when besieging cities, or when on defense. Therefore, foot units are still highly important.
I also admit that lancers (technically not a part of the mounted line, but still) have a wide variety of drawbacks: while they are, like other mounted units, highly mobile, they have an unexceptional combat strength, which keeps them from being very effective against contemporary infantry. They suffer all the drawbacks of other mounted units also: they require horses, they work poorly for defense and city attack, and they are rather vulnerable to units of the spear line. However, the worst drawback, in my opinion, is the huge period for which they are more or less useless, but not able to upgrade. They become available in the Renaissance, and are made almost entirely useless by cavalry, but do not upgrade until the modern era. Even then, they upgrade into anti-tank guns, a curiosity of limited usefulness. That said, I'll give them a few points for eventually becoming helicopter gunships; I find helicopter gunships to be useful as both raiding/outflanking/scouting units and anti-tank units; they are essentially the modern equivalent of what the lancer wishes it was. Overall, however, I view lancers as useful mostly as knight killers, and only occasionally raiders or scouts; they lack the power to be used effectively against foot units, especially as newer ones become available, and so they lack utility as flanking or patrol units.

 

[wte80]

Also, I greatly appreciate pikemen. They come at the very beginning of the medieval era, require no resources, and, while not quite so powerful as longswordsmen, are plenty strong enough to be general-purpose foot soldiers in that era. They have no particular weaknesses: they have no built-in penalties, can not incur a strategic resource penalty, and can't just be run down by the mounted units of the time. Furthermore, their tech prerequisite is a highly valuable tech from a civilian perspective, so they're along a quite reasonable line of research. The big drawback, at least as I see it, is that they upgrade into lancers instead of another type of foot unit, such as musketmen.

 

[Steamtex]

XCOM squad is still OP. And I still love using it as my entire army.

 

[DarthSheldonPhD]

motion for jags seconded. All the same reasons, plus their added mobility through forest/jungle (i.e. the majority of your own territory) and combat bonus in those areas help considerably in early barb incursions, not only removing an early game annoyance but also giving you a social policy or two.

For my own contribution, I'd like to add the Janissary. Suleiman is usually considered a bottom tier civ (and I have a hunch that, much like the earlier reference to Jags, is because people are displeased on paper and don't try him), and when he is considered it's for a water map game, which he does excel at (side note: barbary corsairs is only considered weak because of poor game design allowing all civs to gain the ability through privateers: essentially his unique ability is not unique. If privateers could not capture enemy ships, barbary corsairs would be a top 5 UA.) Back to Janissaries, this unit single-handedly allows Suleiman to excel on any map, even pangaea, almost to the same extent as an English Longbow. A musket that attacks like a rifleman but defends as a musket, and usually when he's defending its at full strength as the previous attack healed him up.

 

[Dogmouth]

Sipahi, sipahi, sipahi. I love these guys. The important thing to remember is that they're not designed to be front line assault units. They're support & harass units. Use them to set up flanks, scout, obtain LOS for ranged units, capture civilians, pillage strategic resources, farms, and luxes. They can also punish wounded units, keshiks, camel archers, knights, siege, and heal for free via pillaging. My only beef with them is that they're more expensive than lancers.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Using some Keshiks in my Emperor Mongolia game. Conquered several people with them - Mayans, Russia, Ethiopia, Polynesia... The Knights I got from Mbanza-Kongo (an incredibly helpful city state it was) helped me a lot, because they could take cities for me. Anyway, later when I was late renaissance/early industrial I went to another continent, conquered capital of Portugal, most of Babylon and Egypt.

Only the Netherlands and Shoshone are now remaining, with Netherlands being tiny and behind, while Shoshone's city spam on their tiny continent (meh ) makes it harder to use Keshiks. The fact I can now field Industrial Era units also doesn't help, but I'm too addicted to them... Seems I'll have to try a different approach and maybe attack from another side, conquer a naval city or two, creating a reasonable foothold for my forces...

It's funny how thanks to all those upgrades, my Keshiks can still fight Comanches.

 

[El Caballerion]

I would like to thank the lowly paid WORKER for all they do. I was going to have Billy the Worker come out to say something but he was unfortunately captured by Barbarians....

 

[Jampine]

I would like to thank the lowly paid WORKER for all they do. I was going to have Billy the Worker come out to say something but he was unfortunately captured by Barbarians....

HA! Indeed, the worker is the most unappreciated unit! On a related note, I've just wondered how long your game could go if you never build a single worker, or captured one. Maybe you could OCC, and rely on buildings for happiness, and city states for resources? maybe we should ask someone to try this?

 

[redwings1340]

The Caravel, particularly in BNW, is an awesome unit. If there was absolutely no threat of a war ever, this and the scout would be the two military units I would absolutely still build. Trade routes across the sea are really powerful in BNW, and exploring the ocean as fast as possible can get you a significantly higher income, as well as allow you to meet tons of new city states that can get you potential benefits.

Things that make the caravel better, like the +1 movement on the Nau, is also really awesome because it allows you to explore the oceans that much faster, to get extra income and city state support that much faster.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

And what of the citizens? Are they but numbers on the screen, while you may be groaning over the civil resistance or revolutionary waves under your ivory tower, you never pause think they are fighting for what they believe in. They have known the outside world, and they have known of your backwards ways. While you see a worthless little outpost of no use, they see their homes being pillaged and burnt to your whim. While you may see a feat in engineering and science to decimate a detested rival in a few short explosions, they see A MONSTER THAT WILL EAT THEIR FAMILY!!!

Think about it.

 

[jlim201]

Privateers seem to be not mentioned. A few Privateers can give you mostly production free navy.

Lancers are good as Mongolia as they are the first unit that can somewhat keep up with the speed of the Keshik. Horseman are easily killed that late in the game and you probably upgraded most of them, Keshiks upgrade to Cavalry.

 

[njmfff]

Now the helicopter is quite good, [...]
all in all, I think the heli is a neat little unit, good for causing distractions, or preventing them. Its a perfect support unit, that should be overlooked. It also has a neat animation :3

I rarely ever use helicopters, but mounted units as you mention are awesome if used correctly. Obviously, you won't use them as you main attack force, but they are excellent and causing chaos on battlefield. They'll chase down and finish off units that are almost dying, slide in and pillage titles (slide them, pillage luxury to cause drop happiness, or pillage food titles and mines to prevent AI from building\growing). They are terrific at capturing cities too - make cannon fodder with melee units, do damage with ranged units, then slide in with cavalry to capture the city. Yeah, they'll be badly wounded, but what the heck, AI's down one city. Even if he recaptures it, it still dropped in population and lost most of the buildings.

the Ottomans Sipahi are awesome in this regard, since they can pillage without movement cost. oh, and they'll also eat other horse units since they are lancers.

I'd like to put in a good word for the Jaguar. I think it got eliminated unfairly early from the elimination thread by people who've never used it and are going off pure theory.

Jaguars are awesome. Make few of them, then upgrade them into swords and they'll be very powerful during swords period. If they are lucky, they can even become happy rifles.

Hussars\Winged Hussar\Cossack - they will finish off wounded units. Winged Hussars are especially good since you can damage AI's units in formation, then hit it with WH to make sure they run away and break fortification.

War elephant (India).and Chariot Archers (Egypt). They are kinda underrated. Both of them are strong as Composite Bows and come with tech you'll research anyway - Wheel. It means you don't need to spend time researching Construction, and you can go for Theology with India or straight for Petra as Egypt.

Samurai - awesome melee unit, maybe the strongest of it's era. Free promotion, why not?

Dislike:

Musketeers - France is awesome, but Muskets are terrible. Slightly buffed up Musket (not even that much) with no special promotion. It's just a generic unit.

Kris swordsman - I hate playing Bingo with it's promotion when the fight starts.

 

[kingofsealand]

Im curious which calvary unit people think is superior regardless of the civ they are attached to

The Sipahi

OR...

The Winged Hussar

The sipahi on the one hand can run around seriously screwing up all the work your enemies workers just spent 200 + years doing.

The Winged hussar on the other hand is the ultimate cavalry unit, able to get itself a substantial bonus on attacking clustered units and actually having the ability to "break" an enemies formation as cavalry were often historically used.

Also If you get stuck with a few lousy promotions the Kris swordsmen can leave a bad taste in your mouth. On the other hand, if you get lucky and end up with even a handful of elite warriors with super promotions you will wish that every unit you built ever had the mystical weapon promotion attached.

Lastly I love the Nau, sea beggar and SoTL which are difficult to compare being in different classes of ship altogether.

 

[Sturmgewher88mm]

Landsknecht is so useful for cheap and decent units!

Also, poor ironclad is even more useless as a melee unit

Helicopter attack animation against much weaker units just looks beautiful! Mows them down then blasts them with missiles

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I'd like to put in a good word for the Jaguar. I think it got eliminated unfairly early from the elimination thread by people who've never used it and are going off pure theory.

I love the Jaguar. If oyu have Jaguars you don't really need a scout. Their forest/jungle movement bonus makes them almost as fast for early exploration, and they have to spend far less time healing after combat with barbarians which works well with the Aztec UA.
And drag on the economy ? You can always bully a couple of city states to pay for your army upkeep.

 

[cinattra]

I'd like to put in a good word for the Jaguar. I think it got eliminated unfairly early from the elimination thread by people who've never used it and are going off pure theory.

They start with a pretty unique healing on kill ability, plus Woodsman. Woodsman is one of those top-end promotions that I wouldn't otherwise have taken. It's no March or Blitz, but is nonetheless very strong. And best of all, they don't go obsolete until the medieval era: you DON'T have to spam them early and ruin your economy: build them late in one turn each.

Overall I'd like to express my appreciation of melee units in general. A couple of cover promotions and those pesky range units turn into tickles. Once you start getting up to the obscene promotion levels with a small melee ball, nothing can kill them.

Yes, the Jaguar is great! Oh my god they rule in jungles! I have only played them once, but I eliminated a civs entire army because they attacked through a jungle