Unit Creation For Dummies.

[gael]

I'm writing this thread in the hope that all the gifted unit creators in the forum can share their knowledge with the rest of us in a tutoral type style that we can all understand.

I have been reading through various threads, and i am hearing bits and pieces of information about certain applications, file formats, and problems faced during the creation process, but trying to peice it all together is nearly impossible.

I have never tried to create or manipulate a unit for civ3, because like many others, i wouldn'd know were to start. I am hoping that the people that know what they are doing can teach the rest of us with a step by step guide, taking nothing for granted, and maybe broaden the creation prosess through out the forum.

This may seem like a daunting task, but i am sure if it is done proberly, we can all learn from it.

NOTE: I would like this thread to remain, as i have stated above, as a tutoral and not be flooded with irrelevant posts. UNIT CREATORS ONLY.

If this thread works out right, i hope the Moderaters will keep it at the top of the 'Creation and Customization' list.

 

[Kryten]

Well gael, there are two main methods....3D software programs or simply cut-'n-paste.

I'm afraid I can't help you with 3D software, as I can't understand it myself!
But here is a link to a cut-'n-paste thread....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=29026

....which contains enough info to get you started. Have a good read of this thread, and if you have any questions or problems, then post away. There are many people who will be willing to help.

Good luck.

 

[Balou]

As Kryten already said there are two methods: 3d and cut-´n-paste
With 3d programs you can achieve impressive results with constant lighting, smoke effects etc.
But there is a difference if you want to do characters or vehicles. Not all 3d programs support easy character animation, and character animation is generally harder to do. (the animation, not necessarily the model)
There are a lot of free 3d programs, some are especially made to do ingame models for 3d shooters and have not so good renderer.
One good free modeling tool is gmax.
Here is also a link to a thread in a mapping forum where many tutorials, links to 3d programs etc. are listed:
http://www.map-center.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000040

I think it is best if you first play around with the 3d software before reading any specific tutorial. Working in 3d can be very confusing the first few hours and it doesn´t make sense to start working on anything special before you got the basic idea of how things work. Many 3d programs also come with tutorials that´ll teach how to navigate through the program.

If you want to do 3d art for other games than civ3 (mainly fps) then you could also visit www.polycount.com.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Well, I think an important question is then: How does one make good units in a 3d program such as Poser, 3D Studio, and such? I myself have Poser, and I'm not really sure how I would go changing a model into the animations needed for Civ3.

 

[Balou]

Well, I have no clue about Poser. I think Kinboat can tell you more about working with it.
But it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to do a building (e.g. city graphics) then you just create the buildings, set up a light source (one or more) and render it. This is probably the most fun thing to start with because you get easy and good results and you don´t need to mess around with all the animation stuff (so you can concentrate on the modeling part, which is later essential for good animation).
If you want to do vehicles you´ll need to know what abilities that vehicle will have. For example a tank in most cases has a rotating turret. So you´ll need to create the basic tank plus a spererate object for the turret that will rotate later. (this depends a lot on the program you use, some have special tools for animation)
For character animation the program must have special "modifiers" which allow realistic mesh deformation. (this depends even more on the program)

You have a lot of freedom when you do 3d modeling. There is not one right way to do things. Experimenting is the key here. (of course it helps if you know your 3d program well)

For civ3 all that counts are the renders. It doesn´t matter how many polygons, lights, textures etc. you have in your scene.

 

[BeBro]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Well, I think an important question is then: How does one make good units in a 3d program such as Poser, 3D Studio, and such? I myself have Poser, and I'm not really sure how I would go changing a model into the animations needed for Civ3.

Like Balou, I haven´t worked with Poser, but from what I´ve read I think it is more a special tool for creating and animating things like realistic human or animal models instead of a fully developed 3d software for all purposes. I understand it so that you can use things made by poser in other software (which perhaps do not offer the same options to create "organic" things), eg. you create a human with Poser (because it is specialized for that) and use this model in 3d Studio for further work (eg. add the gun to a soldier created by Poser). There are similar 3d tools for other special purposes too (eg. for creating landscapes or plants), so maybe Poser is not a good choice for creating buildings, tanks or planes.

With "fully developed 3d software" I mean 3D Studio, Lightwave or my personal favourite Cinema 4D. These are complete 3d solutions for modeling, rendering and animating. You can create (or use imported) models from basic geometric structures, splines, fractals etc. here, but you can also manipulate these things in every possible way (the manual or helpfile of the particular programme will help you here).

So your basic work is:

- create the model you wish (which can be hard enough in the beginning, but don´t give up, these things simply need practise )
- animate it, render the animation
- use flicster (perhaps in combination with a normal gfx software like PSP or Photoshop for editing flicsters pcx strips) to make a civ3 unit from the animation

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Actually, in Poser, you can import almost all types of 3D models like .3DS files into Poser and animate them in with the human character. I also have Bryce, which is more limited than 3D Studio as it specializes in landscapes, but it is still usefully for bringing it all together. What I was referring to was the more tedious aspects regarding the actual animation process.

 

[gael]

I have Poser4 and Studio max, but i'm doing a crash course in web design,(learning most of the macromedia stuff), leaving me little time to play with them.

Kryten has left a good cut n paste link that i am finding very helpful.

I am sure that when i get the time i will try to venture into these programs in more depth, so if you keep this thread on that subject i'm sure it will be helpful to everyone.

 

[Kentonio]

As Kryten already said there are two methods: 3d and cut-´n-paste

A little harsh, 2d amination can be a lot more than just 'cut n paste'. Its also a LOT easier for new unit creators than venturing into the mind blowing world of 3d

My advice would be always start 2d, it will give you a good basis for understanding animation before you advance to 3d stuff.

Kentonio

 

[joespaniel]

gael - This is the best idea for a thread I've seen in a long time!
This should be a sticky!

Absolutely fantastic! And already some of the top unit-creators are posting here (thanks Balou, Kryten, BeBro and Kentonio! ). Hopefully the others will show as well, and answer questions from the aspiring creators (like me), from time to time.

This is exactly what I needed to start learning how to do this. Thanks!

And welcome to Don Pedro II, I noticed your first two posts are in this thread.

 

[BeBro]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Actually, in Poser, you can import almost all types of 3D models like .3DS files into Poser and animate them in with the human character. I also have Bryce, which is more limited than 3D Studio as it specializes in landscapes, but it is still usefully for bringing it all together. What I was referring to was the more tedious aspects regarding the actual animation process.

Oh, then I misunderstood.

About the anim itself, it depends what Poser supports. The most simple form many 3d software packages support is the so-called keyframe animation.

In Cinema 4D you define an anim of a certain length (lets say 20 frames), then move to the first frame. Change the model to the position you want, then you define this frame as first key (works like a snapshot of the current position). After that move ten frames forward, change the model to another position, and define this frame as second key. If you wish (or need) define more keyframes. While rendering the anim, the software will create all phases between this keys itself.

So when you plan eg. to to create a walking soldier, you can simply create four keyframes in an anim of 10 or 15 frames alltogether. These keys should show the starting and ending positions of the soldiers legs and arms (which are a kind of sub-objects within the model of the soldier in Cinema 4D) while making one or two steps - when it is perfectly made, the final anim played in a loop should look like an endless walk.

There are some more complex ways to create anims (including fx like particles for eg. explosions), but since the unit anims don´t have things like spectacular camera movements or a lot of different objects moving in various directions, with various speed the simpler ways should give good results (and are easier to create)

Maybe Poser has a complete different way, perhaps there are predefined "templates" for anims you simply can use for a model included? It would be interesting to hear for me, because I read some interesting things about Poser (eg. create a human including clothes which isn´t easy to do in my 3d software) perhaps the software is something I should have too...

 

[Neomega]

I am working on a tutorial with step by step and pictured instructions. In fact, I already have the pictures, just need the text

This really doesn't need to be a sticky, since once a tutorial is written, it will be posted in the tutorial section.

I must disagree with a statement I read. I made one unit with cut-paste-n-color. It took me months of work.

Then I got a 3-d renderer. The short amount of time it took me to learn a 3-d program paid off almost instantly. I highly recommend going 3-d. I have done both, and I guarantee the work is much more fun when you are making a unit from scratch, then when your are cutting, pasting, and meticulously readjusting and coloring pixels, to get a mediocre unit animation.

and thats my two cents.

BTW, I started a thread in the tutorials http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32029 this might lead you where to start, and give you an idea how it's done.

 

[Kryten]

I must admit, I concur with Neomega.

Although cut-'n-paste is simple in concept and execution, it is nonetheless very time consuming. And though I have never been able to come to grips with 3D software, so have nothing to compare cut-'n-paste with, I am perfectly willing to believe that the right kind of certain 3D programs should make the job of creating new units much easier.
It's just that the ones I have bought....Ulead GIF Animator 5 & Serif 3DPlus3....both proved to be dead ends as far as I was concerned.

One day I hope to have the time to climb the steep 3D learning curve....but at the moment I have far too many half finished units on my hands, so I'll just have to do it the hard way for now.

But I shall be looking out for Neomega's tutorial when it's finished.

 

[Neomega]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=563320#post563320

There you go Folks. No more excuses.

 

[pesoloco]

The best advice that I would give to someone starting out is
look at an existing unit.
Open its folder in \art\units

take a look at all the files that make it up, note their names, etensions, etc.
Also, take a look at the INI study it. Figure out how it works.

If you're making your first unit,
Start with one that already exists. This will give you a good starting point and fill in some of the gaps (missing files) until you get the hang of it.

There is a definite routine to creating units. Once you get it down, you'll be crankin out units in no time

 

[Kinboat]

Actually BeBro that's almost exactly how Poser works with animations... It can get pretty comlicated depending on how the object is moving around etc... From there you can save the animation and apply it to other models (with slight changes depending on the bone structure). If someone has the Pro Pack expansion then they can import a model from another program and assign the bones and joints, basicly creating a new articulated version. And as others said a lot of different formats can be imported. It really isn't for everything though, I started using it because I was frustrated trying to do human models in Moray I might have to work up a small tutorial from what I've muddled through, I might even include a default lighting and camera setup.

 

[BeBro]

Thanks a lot for the info - Poser sounds more and more interesting to me, I´ll definately try out the demo...

 

[gael]

A good poser tudoral that focuses only on unit creation would be a great help.

 

[Neomega]

YOu can try the poser tutorial, but you won't be ablr to do anything with it. You'll have to buy it to make units.