Yoda Power
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- Sep 24, 2002
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i dont think mordor used Uruk-Hais, their main force was made of orcs and Olog-Hais
Unit Preview: Uruk Hai Berserker
- Thread starter Kinboat
- Start date
Raw is War?
Soul Reaper
Nice model Kinboat!
I second that!
Kinboat, can I make a request for the Mordor Uruk? Could you not have the Red Eye symbol civ specific? I think most people would make Mordor's Civ colour black, and it'd be crappy to wash out the symbol on the shield.
Just a suggestion....
Just a suggestion....
Kinboat
Conan the Librarian
Actually the way I was planning the eye it might be hard to make it civ-specific... I had red and some orange and yellow in the design, only one of those colors would change making for some weird effects. So I think the crest will be the only civ color on the Mordor version.
Kinboat
Conan the Librarian
Yeah... I've just taken a break from the Orcs for a short time to work on some of my other projects.
Sir John
The evil one...
AFAIK Isengard used the Uruk Hai and Mordor Used Olog Hai.. I have read the book 32 times and I cant find anywhere that Mordor has the Uruk Hais...
We can discuss this until we die, The Book is not quite clear on that point. But in the reference material it seems to look like Uruk-Hai was supposed to be common to both Mordor and Isengard and that the Saruman creation was more a crossbreed between humans and orcs (and of a third type thus).
But as I said in the book this tend to blur, and that I belive is because Tolkien wasn't that interested in that question. Remember he rewrote the three book several times and changed a lot of topics back and forth and there are some glitches here and there.
Uruk-Hai only mentioned appereance is in Helms deep, but remember that the orc who speared Frodo in Moria was described much like the Uruks. (that orc was changed to a troll in the movie), and Shagrath is also described like a Uruk...
But as I said in the book this tend to blur, and that I belive is because Tolkien wasn't that interested in that question. Remember he rewrote the three book several times and changed a lot of topics back and forth and there are some glitches here and there.
Uruk-Hai only mentioned appereance is in Helms deep, but remember that the orc who speared Frodo in Moria was described much like the Uruks. (that orc was changed to a troll in the movie), and Shagrath is also described like a Uruk...
Sir John
The evil one...
it was a troll in the book as well..
GEChallenger
lurking
I just happened to see this little uruk-hai debate and couldn't help but add my two cents...
Uruk-hai is simply black speech for Orc-folk or Orc-people, since "uruk" means orc and "hai" means people, just as Olog-hai means troll-people. Uruks, orcs, goblins, and orchs are all the same thing just in different languages; uruk is black speech, orc is in Old English, orch is Sindarin elvish (I think), and goblin is English. Uruks when capitalized refer to a larger, stronger race of orcs who could withstand the sun. They apparently came from Mordor originally and were in both Sauron's armies and in the employ of Saruman. However, Saruman's Uruks were generally the elite of the orc race, and Tolkien refers to them as "Uruk-hai" while Saurons are usually just referred to as Uruks. So both Uruk and Uruk-hai was used by Tolkien to refer to the biggest, strongest orcs, while just "orc" referred to 'normal' ones. Goblin it seems Tolkien used a slang term for orcs (and then generally only the hobbits used the word "goblin").
Anyway, there's my rather long two cents. Oh, and the Uruk-hai are NOT the result of human-orc breeding. Although Saruman did apparently dabble in crossbreeding, the result was disappointing creatures that were referred to as "half-orcs" or "goblin-men." They did fight at Helm's Deep, but were only a small part of the army.
In the movie, yes, Uruk-hai were special to Saruman and the result of human-orc breeding, but I think that the writers might have just gotten confused by all the different terms in the book. And no wonder!
And Olog-hai refers to a breed of huge, sun-tolerant trolls that appeared only at the very end of the War of the Ring. These were apparently very rare and were only used by Sauron.
So there's my rather long two cents. I hope it isn't too confusing. Anyway, there's and interesting and informative site that can be of use for Tolkien enthusiasts who want to nitpick stuff
like this here: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
Uruk-hai is simply black speech for Orc-folk or Orc-people, since "uruk" means orc and "hai" means people, just as Olog-hai means troll-people. Uruks, orcs, goblins, and orchs are all the same thing just in different languages; uruk is black speech, orc is in Old English, orch is Sindarin elvish (I think), and goblin is English. Uruks when capitalized refer to a larger, stronger race of orcs who could withstand the sun. They apparently came from Mordor originally and were in both Sauron's armies and in the employ of Saruman. However, Saruman's Uruks were generally the elite of the orc race, and Tolkien refers to them as "Uruk-hai" while Saurons are usually just referred to as Uruks. So both Uruk and Uruk-hai was used by Tolkien to refer to the biggest, strongest orcs, while just "orc" referred to 'normal' ones. Goblin it seems Tolkien used a slang term for orcs (and then generally only the hobbits used the word "goblin").
Anyway, there's my rather long two cents. Oh, and the Uruk-hai are NOT the result of human-orc breeding. Although Saruman did apparently dabble in crossbreeding, the result was disappointing creatures that were referred to as "half-orcs" or "goblin-men." They did fight at Helm's Deep, but were only a small part of the army.
In the movie, yes, Uruk-hai were special to Saruman and the result of human-orc breeding, but I think that the writers might have just gotten confused by all the different terms in the book. And no wonder!
And Olog-hai refers to a breed of huge, sun-tolerant trolls that appeared only at the very end of the War of the Ring. These were apparently very rare and were only used by Sauron.
So there's my rather long two cents. I hope it isn't too confusing. Anyway, there's and interesting and informative site that can be of use for Tolkien enthusiasts who want to nitpick stuff
like this here: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
Sir John
The evil one...
The goblins is lesser then the orcs.. they isnt as strong, but can withstand sunlight. Orcs are stronger but get weak in sunlight. Saruman crossbred goblins orcs, and another race wich im not sure of the name. They became the Uruk-Hai. Even tough they all mean the same just different langs its different cratures as well....
Well spoken, GEChallenger!
The arda lexica is a good source, but remember that the great old author was not interested in stuff like politics and social structures and such stuff and several points is left to the readers imagination.... and that he (as I said earlier) wrote several version of everything, and most of it (except from the triology it self and bilbo) was published by his son which just heaped the stuff together.
The arda lexica is a good source, but remember that the great old author was not interested in stuff like politics and social structures and such stuff and several points is left to the readers imagination.... and that he (as I said earlier) wrote several version of everything, and most of it (except from the triology it self and bilbo) was published by his son which just heaped the stuff together.
Actually, without going and looking at my books for firm evidence, I'm pretty confident that it was indeed Saruman that bred the Uruk-hai from Mordor orcs (first created from Elves by Morgoth, Sauron's old boss now lost in the Void) and hill men, so they are literally half-orcs by nature and this explains their tolerance for sunlight and greater physical bulk and strength. The orcs obviously were drastically altered from the Elves over so many millenia and came to the point where the two have hardly any resemblence to the other at all -- but if you note some extremely good detail in the movies you will see many orcs actually have pointed ears.
After the fall of Isengard, the remaining Uruk-Hai got wise and bolted for the only place in Middle-Earth left to them for solace, and that would obviously be under the care of Sauron.
Now, if you want proof right from the books as to all of the above and the logical sequence, you really need only examine the chapters in the Two Towers where the squabbling happens between the Mordor Orcs and the Isengard Uruk-Hai. You can see right there that the Uruk-Hai at that point are almost exclusive to Sauron.
You can also note this from the extended edition of the Two Towers DVD.
And, one final point, in the Return of the King movie, you can actually see that Uruk-Hai are present in the ranks of Sauron but not in great numbers: case in point, the fight that breaks out in the tower over the Mithril vest -- watch that scene when the DVD is released and you will note with clarity that the breeds of the two Orc chiefs are undoubtedly Mordor Orc and (now) Mordor Uruk-Hai.
Yes, I'm something of a Tolkien-ite if you haven't figured that out from my nick and what I just typed. I attempt to keep my posts to a minimum but this just needed some clarifying because I'm sure these arguments would go on otherwise and the modders should know the facts.
BTW, Kinboat, your unit designs are quite good. Thanks for the hard work.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Kinboat, a very good source of pictures for LotR (and btw, Star Trek as well) is Decipher , a company that makes a (really good) CCG for LotR, and a still pretty good ST-CCG.
(Both are the only games I played comparably fanatically like Civ and Panzergeneral).
They even have access to takeouts from the movies. Also, since those cards have stats as well, they're helpful for moders (especially Star Trek, since the ships have A.D.M values...)
(Both are the only games I played comparably fanatically like Civ and Panzergeneral).
They even have access to takeouts from the movies. Also, since those cards have stats as well, they're helpful for moders (especially Star Trek, since the ships have A.D.M values...)
