Unit Promotions

[WhimpyCiv]

I've been playing Civ for a while, just started trying out BTS. I'm wondering if anyone has ever discussed (either BTS or any other flavor) the various unit promotions available?

I usually stick with Combat for most fighting units, City Garrison for units which are just to defend a city, or City Raider when I'm trying to build a force to go in and attack a city. (Along with one cheap Healer unit somewhere and a few City Garrison defenders for after I win.) Are the other promotions useful at all for low XP units? If I have a unit already at City Garrison III, I might start sticking on Drill promos ... or if I have an early warrior out walking around getting attacked by barb warriors, then put a Shock promotion or even try for Woodsman or Guerilla II promo.

Does anyone have any good reasons for trying other promotions? I might be able to see where if you're facing a stack of musketmen or riflemen out in the open you might want to grab some Pinch promos for units that survive, but what sorts of strategies would you use for some of the others?

-- WC

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Woodsman III also works for medics

For combat units: if they are going to be definding a stack then often it is best to specialize them (ie Axemen with Shock, Spearmen with Formation, or if you have Riflemen.. a Pinch Rifleman, and a Formation Rifleman)

If they are going to be attacking..(other than a city, ie eliminating enemy stacks) it is valuable to just go combat.. unless the 'strong' unit of the era(or of your opponent) is one unit type

March is a great promotion for combat units, although it is slightly higher

Flanking is good for mounted units, to help them take out Siege units

Increased Collateral damage is best for Siege units... actually for almost anything that can get it, if it is planning on attacking stacks.

Obviously city Raider for attacking cities, Accuracy for Siege units planning on bringing down city walls.

 

[JKWSN]

Pop a warlord on an unit and just get them all

 

[Inky]

Unit promotions are a matter of specialization. It rarely pays to put two different unit-counter specializations (like cover and shock) on a single unit. Better two units with an extra combat promotion each.

Woodsmen and Guerrilla are good for defenders, and while they stack with the unit counters I generally prefer to max these out in a line rather than diverting to something else. Both at level III are very effective. A hill defense bonus can do wonders to protect your invading stack, as long as you can be sure to end moves on hills, as most maps have lots of hills to hide in.

Countering your current opponent's major force is usually a good plan. If you see a stack of swordsmen, shock is good to add to units fighting them.

Woodsman III plus Medic is a powerful Healer combination, because both healings combine. A Warlord with Woodsman III and Medic III is the best healer, but not easy to get. Exceptions are Jaguars (with free Woodsmen promotion - the Aztecs get a good deal here), and units built from the Red Cross city.

 

[Angst]

Ancient/Classical units upgrade guide...

Warriors: Woods (If Quecha: CR)
Scout: Woods/Guerilla (Primary depends on the Terrain)
Swords: Cover/CR (If Prat: C, If Gallic: Guerilla)
Axes: Shock/Com (If Dog: CR)
Spears: Com/Form (And at least 2 Com/Medic)
Chars: Com/Shock (If War Chariot: Shock, If Immortal: Com)
Horses: Flank/Com (If Numid: Flank/Com/Shock)
Cats: Barrage/Accur
Archers: CG/Com (Depends on defense, offense)

 

[Welnic]

My favorite thing to do with promotions is to get a bunch of CR III Macemen that you promote to Grenadiers, Riflemen, and Infantry, since those units can't get the CR promotions otherwise.

 

[WhimpyCiv]

My favorite thing to do with promotions is to get a bunch of CR III Macemen that you promote to Grenadiers, Riflemen, and Infantry, since those units can't get the CR promotions otherwise.

Yes, I have noticed that! Riflemen with CR can be pretty awesome against an opponent. Another reason that it's can be better to upgrade units instead of building entirely new ones ... and another reason that having gold on hand can be a very important thing.

-- WC

 

[WhimpyCiv]

Ancient/Classical units upgrade guide...

Warriors: Woods (If Quecha: CR)
Scout: Woods/Guerilla (Primary depends on the Terrain)
Swords: Cover/CR (If Prat: C, If Gallic: Guerilla)
Axes: Shock/Com (If Dog: CR)
Spears: Com/Form (And at least 2 Com/Medic)
Chars: Com/Shock (If War Chariot: Shock, If Immortal: Com)
Horses: Flank/Com (If Numid: Flank/Com/Shock)
Cats: Barrage/Accur
Archers: CG/Com (Depends on defense, offense)

A couple'o'questions...

Why give Spears a Formation promotion? They're already +100% against Mounted Units. If they're ineffective against anything, it would be the Axemen or Swordsmen. Why not a Shock? Or are we looking at specialization, like getting one unit really good at what it does, then another unit really good at the different thing that it does? The same thing would apply to Axes and Shock, I guess.

Does anyone have a really good reason for giving Cats/Trebs anything OTHER than Barrage or Accuracy? I mean, it would seem that one of the main things they're used for (if I'm using them correctly, I mean, and if I'm not, correct me) is to cause damage to several units at a time in an attack, or to bombard the defenses of a city. Wouldn't more damage to several units be more in keeping with this tactic than actually winning the combat against one particular unit?

And with the archers, when they are my strongest unit (after getting archery if that's my first combat unit after warrior) then a Combat promotion would make sense. But otherwise wouldn't it be wiser to generate melee units instead of archers if the melee units are going to be stronger in combat and give *them* the Combat promo?

-- WC

 

[KrikkitTwo]

A

Does anyone have a really good reason for giving Cats/Trebs anything OTHER than Barrage or Accuracy? I mean, it would seem that one of the main things they're used for (if I'm using them correctly, I mean, and if I'm not, correct me) is to cause damage to several units at a time in an attack, or to bombard the defenses of a city. Wouldn't more damage to several units be more in keeping with this tactic than actually winning the combat against one particular unit?


-- WC

Well I go with CR to help keep my Siege units around (that way I don't need a continuous stream of them, just the initial amount)

 

[PibbZ]

I have, after a LONG assimilation period (had a hard time forgetting the Civ3 artillery ) , i have finally started to consider my siege units as fire and forget units, pretty much like a very early guided missile.

And since doing collateral damage is what they do, i stick with barrage promotions. This also means that any city in my empire with just barracks and religion can build level 3 units for two barrage upgrades, while my production cities and millitary production city (with generals and stuff) can focus on more elite troops for other purposes.

 

[thomson_2001]

my flatmate has the right attitude. dont upgrade your units until you need to. this way you can counter the forces andsituation as well as save some upgrades back for healing. often with 80+ % chance of winning id rather not use an upgrade, then useit to heal quicker the following turn. of course this is nto always the case as can get caught out by AI if dont save promotions wisely.

 

[Angst]

A couple'o'questions...

Why give Spears a Formation promotion? They're already +100% against Mounted Units. If they're ineffective against anything, it would be the Axemen or Swordsmen. Why not a Shock? Or are we looking at specialization, like getting one unit really good at what it does, then another unit really good at the different thing that it does? The same thing would apply to Axes and Shock, I guess.

Spears are rarely very useful and rarely gains much xp when build. So they are often useless to upgrade. A Spearman with +25% against Mounted can be seriously annoying when you use Knights, fx. Also, that's why I often use them as Medics, as they're mostly only useful as Stack Defenders (Impi should have CR btw). Oh, and yes, use specialization.

Does anyone have a really good reason for giving Cats/Trebs anything OTHER than Barrage or Accuracy? I mean, it would seem that one of the main things they're used for (if I'm using them correctly, I mean, and if I'm not, correct me) is to cause damage to several units at a time in an attack, or to bombard the defenses of a city. Wouldn't more damage to several units be more in keeping with this tactic than actually winning the combat against one particular unit?

Trebs are good vs. cities, so they should have CR. Cats have no city bonus, so keep them at Barrage.

And with the archers, when they are my strongest unit (after getting archery if that's my first combat unit after warrior) then a Combat promotion would make sense. But otherwise wouldn't it be wiser to generate melee units instead of archers if the melee units are going to be stronger in combat and give *them* the Combat promo?

I always throw in a couple of Archers in my stack. There is rarely any direct anti-archer unit (except for more Strength), they're cheap, and they are great in hills. Therefore, some Com Archers are practical.

Answers in Bold

 

[Love]

Just give evryone combat

 

[Diamondeye]

@LordJoakim:

I disagree on the Immortal subject. Giving Immortals Flanking promos results in a truly "Immortal" force, meaning that they will have a good chance at "win or escape" techniques. Get a stable and a barracks, and you're pumping out S2 Immortals... that's... 50%? Escape chance...

 

[AfterShafter]

@LordJoakim:

I disagree on the Immortal subject. Giving Immortals Flanking promos results in a truly "Immortal" force, meaning that they will have a good chance at "win or escape" techniques. Get a stable and a barracks, and you're pumping out S2 Immortals... that's... 50%? Escape chance...

Bingo. With Egypt I often do war chariot rushes, and having hordes of 50% runaway war chariots makes a stack of them function almost like siege weapons - softening up a more powerful force while suffering minimal casualties. Sure, hitting harder is nice, but if you have a large critical mass of chariot class units (easy to do if you have forests), a huge stack of ones trained to run away will get you through a city attack with relatively limited losses.

The catch with this is that you need enough units in your stack to hit and run each defender at least once, and then have enough for a full lineup of follow-up attacks - so the stacks really do have to be pretty big. Very costly early on, but I usually find my wars progress so fast with war chariots that I keep my head above water with plundered booty until I can go peace and delete units.

 

[Angst]

@LordJoakim:

I disagree on the Immortal subject. Giving Immortals Flanking promos results in a truly "Immortal" force, meaning that they will have a good chance at "win or escape" techniques. Get a stable and a barracks, and you're pumping out S2 Immortals... that's... 50%? Escape chance...

Heh, I'm not that good at Persia, rarely play them, actually. I didn't know Immortals had 30% base Withdrawal... Thought it was the same as the Chariots' 10%.

 

[CivDude86]

It is in vanilla but in Warlords and BtS its only 10%.

 

[Gre_Magus]

In my last game playing as Vikings I had three CRIII berserkers that I had upgraded to rifleman - my early industrial killer marines! Unfortunately the galleon they were on got sunk.
Oh well, I still won that game!