Unit Request: Dive Bomber!!!
- Thread starter Civanator
- Start date
Harlan
Chieftain
SM,
By raw files, I meant files before they'd been converted into flc. Isn't there a stage when the files are in a different format, such as .tif or .bmp or something, one for every single movement or view? Or does it not work that way? Does it go straight from being a 3D model into a Civ3 flc format?
If I were able to convert the Tom Davies files into something Corel could read, would you be willing to turn them into flcs? (No harm in asking, right?
)
Had the war never ended, the major powers would never have given up their militarily stategic colonies. South Africa being a part of the British Commonwealth wouldn't have been independent. In fact, very few places would have. In 1946 in our world, virtually the entire continent of Africa and the Middle East was still colonized, including Israel. De-colonization didn't really start till about 1950.
This wouldn't have any relevance to you, cos there is no A bomb in your world. Nor would the Suez Crisis, cos that was a limited war fraught with political considerations, whereas you'd be in a world of total war.
Speaking of which, what about the use of biological and chemical weapons in your world?
PS- Did you know I made your T-34 icon for Civ2? That was one of my better efforts.
By raw files, I meant files before they'd been converted into flc. Isn't there a stage when the files are in a different format, such as .tif or .bmp or something, one for every single movement or view? Or does it not work that way? Does it go straight from being a 3D model into a Civ3 flc format?
If I were able to convert the Tom Davies files into something Corel could read, would you be willing to turn them into flcs? (No harm in asking, right?
)Had the war never ended, the major powers would never have given up their militarily stategic colonies. South Africa being a part of the British Commonwealth wouldn't have been independent. In fact, very few places would have. In 1946 in our world, virtually the entire continent of Africa and the Middle East was still colonized, including Israel. De-colonization didn't really start till about 1950.
This wouldn't have any relevance to you, cos there is no A bomb in your world. Nor would the Suez Crisis, cos that was a limited war fraught with political considerations, whereas you'd be in a world of total war.
Speaking of which, what about the use of biological and chemical weapons in your world?
PS- Did you know I made your T-34 icon for Civ2? That was one of my better efforts
.Harlan
Chieftain
I was thinking of a good "what if" starting point for your mod.
What if in November 41 Japan decides Pearl Harbor is too risky, and never attacks the US. They cut a deal, and continue to get the oil they need. With the US failing to join the Allies as soon as it did, the Germans do better in Russia (fewer distractions), but still can't win. In our world the Germans secretly tried to make a separate peace with Russia in '43 and again in '44, and Stalin seriously considered it. Without the US helping, Russia is in deeper straits in '43 and thus agrees, but gets some of its land back (the 44 deal in our world would have returned to 1940 borders. The alternate world 43 deal would have been much better for Germany, giving them plenty of leibenstraum).
Without as much US help as in our world, Rommel wins the battle of El Alamein in 1942, conquers the Middle East, and thus gets the oil Germany needs, so conquest of the oil fields of Russia is not necessary (Rommel's advance helps seal the Russian peace deal on both sides, the Russians finding their southern flank exposed). Unable to defend it, Britain turns over oil rich southern Persia to Russia, thus denying it to Germany and blocking the land invasion path to India.
Without the war with the US, Japan conquers China, removing a Vietnam War type thorn from their side, greatly boosting their economic power.
Roosevelt finally convinces the US public to attack Germany in late 42. But after the Russian deal in 43, with everyone else at peace and most of the German army transferred west to protect against invasion, Britain and the US realizes invading Germany would be too costly and also cuts a deal, basically retaining the status quo. Because of the late start and better defenses, the Allies hadn't even invaded North Africa yet (Operation Torch). They had started a limited offensive in Arabia and East Africa instead.
But everyone knows peace can't last, Germany and Japan (and revenge filled Russia) are too expansionist. A couple of years later, war breaks out again, this time everyone gets swept in, everyone against everyone....
I actually think such a series of events could have happened, had Japan not been so foolish (they were an economic fly attacking an elephant, and smart people like Admiral Yamamoto knew they were doomed to fail).
Had this happened, all four would be on more even terms (Germany and Japan being too economically weak to compete in the real world). Japan gets a chance to industrialize, taps the 1/5th of world population in China. US/Britian weakened by loss of Middle East and Med, US slower to build up militarily. Germany gains Middle East, Ukraine, etc..., and surrounded Turkey forced to become a minor ally. Russia having lost its economic heartland, no longer able to simply overwhelm Germany by weight of numbers.
It would be much closer and long fought, but I think the US would still win through sheer economic power, and its homeland being too remote for invasion.
What if in November 41 Japan decides Pearl Harbor is too risky, and never attacks the US. They cut a deal, and continue to get the oil they need. With the US failing to join the Allies as soon as it did, the Germans do better in Russia (fewer distractions), but still can't win. In our world the Germans secretly tried to make a separate peace with Russia in '43 and again in '44, and Stalin seriously considered it. Without the US helping, Russia is in deeper straits in '43 and thus agrees, but gets some of its land back (the 44 deal in our world would have returned to 1940 borders. The alternate world 43 deal would have been much better for Germany, giving them plenty of leibenstraum).
Without as much US help as in our world, Rommel wins the battle of El Alamein in 1942, conquers the Middle East, and thus gets the oil Germany needs, so conquest of the oil fields of Russia is not necessary (Rommel's advance helps seal the Russian peace deal on both sides, the Russians finding their southern flank exposed). Unable to defend it, Britain turns over oil rich southern Persia to Russia, thus denying it to Germany and blocking the land invasion path to India.
Without the war with the US, Japan conquers China, removing a Vietnam War type thorn from their side, greatly boosting their economic power.
Roosevelt finally convinces the US public to attack Germany in late 42. But after the Russian deal in 43, with everyone else at peace and most of the German army transferred west to protect against invasion, Britain and the US realizes invading Germany would be too costly and also cuts a deal, basically retaining the status quo. Because of the late start and better defenses, the Allies hadn't even invaded North Africa yet (Operation Torch). They had started a limited offensive in Arabia and East Africa instead.
But everyone knows peace can't last, Germany and Japan (and revenge filled Russia) are too expansionist. A couple of years later, war breaks out again, this time everyone gets swept in, everyone against everyone....
I actually think such a series of events could have happened, had Japan not been so foolish (they were an economic fly attacking an elephant, and smart people like Admiral Yamamoto knew they were doomed to fail).
Had this happened, all four would be on more even terms (Germany and Japan being too economically weak to compete in the real world). Japan gets a chance to industrialize, taps the 1/5th of world population in China. US/Britian weakened by loss of Middle East and Med, US slower to build up militarily. Germany gains Middle East, Ukraine, etc..., and surrounded Turkey forced to become a minor ally. Russia having lost its economic heartland, no longer able to simply overwhelm Germany by weight of numbers.
It would be much closer and long fought, but I think the US would still win through sheer economic power, and its homeland being too remote for invasion.
This doesn't seen likely to happen to china,
india, australia, asean were sending aid like mad to china.
they know if china fall, it will soon be their turn.
many modern army have invaded china, but non have
manage to proceed more that 100 mile from the coast.
it is just too much resourse to waste,
they further you are from your ship,
the more fuel you have to waste to move stuff around.
and against a nation 10th your size, weight with little industry.
it takes too much out of japan which didn't HAVE enough oil!
this is why they invaded asean, to capture rubber, metal and oil.
japan would find it extremely dangerous,
since US's protected the philippines.
But if you want no war with US,
you will have to take the chance.
and if you check philipines on the map.
it is RIGHT IN THE CENTRE of the japanese empire!
- - - - -
but here is something interesting for you.
Maybe you can use my suggestion
japan HAVE wanted to make china a puppet state.
they promote alot of propaganda in china.
they however only manage to get manchuria.
they installed the formal chinese emperor
(who was overthrown) as president of this state.
you can of course change history by
making the puppet state the whole of china.
(making china an ally of japan and also their cash cow)
manchuria should not be in war yet.
no plane, only rilfeman and very few artillery.
almost no railroad, no ships and backward technology.
Their border with soviet union and india,
make them a good buffer for japan.
they should also be paying japan gold per turn.
give the japan as many china's coastal city & taiwan.
Thailand, Malayan and Vietnam was
under japan sphere of power as well.
Harlan
Chieftain
akinhoo,
I completely disagree that Japan could never have conquered China. The Mongols - with less than 1 million homeland population, conquered all of China, with many hundreds of millions. Look at a WW2 map sometime - the Japanese had already conquered virtually every major city in China, controlled about 80% of the prewar economy and population. Your 100 mile limit certainly never slowed the Japanese down - their control was typically 200 to 400 miles inland, sometimes more. The reason they didn't go further was because most of the war, the Japanese spent their energies elsewhere and thus the borders in China hardly moved much. They had too many fronts to fight at once, and they gave the Chinese conflict the lowest priority. But in 1944 they decided they needed a new section of China to connect their railroad to Southeast Asia, and they had a very successful offensive.
Now imagine that the Japanese didn't spend most of their army and air force on attacking Philippines, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, and so on, but concentrated all of that on China. I don't see how they could have been stopped. All the aid that came from the outside- that had to get into China somehow. A Japanese offensive that captured the city of Kunming would have closed off the only possible large scale aid route.
Prior to WW2, China hardly had a government, it being largely controlled by corrupt regional warlords. The population didn't have a great love of their government, and the puppet emperor in Manchuria would have assured at least some support for the Japanese. Only Mao's Communists fought fiercely, and their numbers were small. Had the Japanese cut off their supply routes, they would have remained a meddlesome guerrilla resistance, but nothing more. The Japanese also would have been smart to not commit atrocities against the Chinese population. Why burn down a factory you plan to use later?
The main problem was oil to keep the Japanese war machine going - even 1 month prior to Pearl Harbor Japan bought most of its oil from the US. My "what if" supposes a deal between the US and Japan, and the oil trade continues. The negotiating sides in reality weren't that far off. Roosevelt considered the Germans the number 1 enemy and didn't want to get distracted in the Pacific if the Japanese toned down their expansionist goals. The British of course were even more determined to keep the focus in Europe.
I completely disagree that Japan could never have conquered China. The Mongols - with less than 1 million homeland population, conquered all of China, with many hundreds of millions. Look at a WW2 map sometime - the Japanese had already conquered virtually every major city in China, controlled about 80% of the prewar economy and population. Your 100 mile limit certainly never slowed the Japanese down - their control was typically 200 to 400 miles inland, sometimes more. The reason they didn't go further was because most of the war, the Japanese spent their energies elsewhere and thus the borders in China hardly moved much. They had too many fronts to fight at once, and they gave the Chinese conflict the lowest priority. But in 1944 they decided they needed a new section of China to connect their railroad to Southeast Asia, and they had a very successful offensive.
Now imagine that the Japanese didn't spend most of their army and air force on attacking Philippines, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, and so on, but concentrated all of that on China. I don't see how they could have been stopped. All the aid that came from the outside- that had to get into China somehow. A Japanese offensive that captured the city of Kunming would have closed off the only possible large scale aid route.
Prior to WW2, China hardly had a government, it being largely controlled by corrupt regional warlords. The population didn't have a great love of their government, and the puppet emperor in Manchuria would have assured at least some support for the Japanese. Only Mao's Communists fought fiercely, and their numbers were small. Had the Japanese cut off their supply routes, they would have remained a meddlesome guerrilla resistance, but nothing more. The Japanese also would have been smart to not commit atrocities against the Chinese population. Why burn down a factory you plan to use later?
The main problem was oil to keep the Japanese war machine going - even 1 month prior to Pearl Harbor Japan bought most of its oil from the US. My "what if" supposes a deal between the US and Japan, and the oil trade continues. The negotiating sides in reality weren't that far off. Roosevelt considered the Germans the number 1 enemy and didn't want to get distracted in the Pacific if the Japanese toned down their expansionist goals. The British of course were even more determined to keep the focus in Europe.
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
Yes I agree that the japanese would have fared quite well against the chinese, cos the fight was generaly man to man, there was not much tanks warefare on either side, the japanese had some, but they were only light tanks, and the japanese had almost total air superiority over the chinese. At the start of my scenario I would have the japanes own most of china and territory all the way to the indian border (I think the americans would have at least have instigated an oil embargo if japan decided to attack british territory in india) but their future would not be very bright! There were some border skirmishes between japan and USSR and russia came out on top each time.
CIV game mechanics I think would show this; Fighting a modern war on land requires two things, rapid armoured movement and superior air power. At the start of the war the Zero fighter was very advanced, a real match for american air power, but the japanes were still depending on it at the very end, when it was hopelessly out dated. The imperial marines are very good on attack and quite adept at deffence, but they are only foot troops after all they could easily be out manouvered by russian tank brigades while the russian air force could decimate the zero fighters.
Of course it would be up to a russian commander whether to expand in to china, or use his troops to drive the germans out of his former territory, just as it would be up to the germans if they wanted to secure further oil reserves and man power from africa or to continue to fight the russians.
The scenario would have to start at a time of at least stalemate between the superpowers, in order to give the player greatest choice, and best playing experience. (of course the difficulty is, just how can I do all this? I think I am going to work on some units while I wait for the XP, which hopefully should have a decent editor in it).
CIV game mechanics I think would show this; Fighting a modern war on land requires two things, rapid armoured movement and superior air power. At the start of the war the Zero fighter was very advanced, a real match for american air power, but the japanes were still depending on it at the very end, when it was hopelessly out dated. The imperial marines are very good on attack and quite adept at deffence, but they are only foot troops after all they could easily be out manouvered by russian tank brigades while the russian air force could decimate the zero fighters.
Of course it would be up to a russian commander whether to expand in to china, or use his troops to drive the germans out of his former territory, just as it would be up to the germans if they wanted to secure further oil reserves and man power from africa or to continue to fight the russians.
The scenario would have to start at a time of at least stalemate between the superpowers, in order to give the player greatest choice, and best playing experience. (of course the difficulty is, just how can I do all this? I think I am going to work on some units while I wait for the XP, which hopefully should have a decent editor in it).
sgrig
Comrade
In 1948 the Il-28 jet bomber entered service. It had a range of 2180 km and could carry 3000kg of bombs. (Its Chinese modification is still in service!):
One of the first Soviet mass-produced jet fighters was the Mig-15, which also entered service in 1948. In total 18,000 units were built for various countries! It also successfully saw action in Korea. Range 800km, max speed 1070 km/h. Armament 1x 37mm cannon, 2x 23 mm:
The modernisation of Mig-15 was the Mig-17, which was also mass-produced and entered service in 1951. Total number produced was 11,000.
Mig-19, which entered service in 1955, became the world's first mass-produced supersonic fighter. More than 2000 were built.
As far as ground-attack aircraft are concerned, the Il-10 and it's modification Il-10M were used for quite a long time. There was however an Il-40 developed in 1953, but which did not enter service. It was the world's first jet-engined armoured ground strike aircraft. It had a combat radius of 400 km, max speed 954km/h, and was armed with 5 23mm guns, and could carry upto 1400kg of bombs:
Later fighter-bombers include the Su-7B Fitter which entered service in 1960, but was developed in 1956:
I hope this information is useful.
Source used :
http://airwar.ru
Russian Aviation Museum
sgrig
Comrade
Forgot to give information about heavy/strategic bombers:
1947 - Tu-4 Strategic Bomber enters service (which was basically a copy of the US B-29 bomber) (range
1954 - Tu-16 is the first true Russian strategic bomber, with a range of 7250km, and a bombload of 9000kg
Also in 1954, the famous Tu-95 Bear strategic bomber was built. The Tu-95 and its modifications are still in service with the Russian air force. It has a range of 12,000 - 15,000 km, maximum speed of 910km/h, and upto 12,000 kg bombload. The modification Tu-95V was designed in 1959 to carry super-heavy thermonuclear bombs weighing 22 tons and a yield of 50-100 MT!!
1947 - Tu-4 Strategic Bomber enters service (which was basically a copy of the US B-29 bomber) (range
1954 - Tu-16 is the first true Russian strategic bomber, with a range of 7250km, and a bombload of 9000kg
Also in 1954, the famous Tu-95 Bear strategic bomber was built. The Tu-95 and its modifications are still in service with the Russian air force. It has a range of 12,000 - 15,000 km, maximum speed of 910km/h, and upto 12,000 kg bombload. The modification Tu-95V was designed in 1959 to carry super-heavy thermonuclear bombs weighing 22 tons and a yield of 50-100 MT!!
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
Thanks sgrig, I am going to da a sort of generic version of the following planes;
Rocket powered fighter (Very early jet fighter, limited range, but good attack power)
2 engine bomber (most of the german bombers were twins cos hitler kept demanding more bombers, quantity over quality)
4 engine bomber (like the std firaxis one)
6 engine bomber (super heavy bomber with full range and good defence, but very expensive)
Sub sonic jet fighter (upgrade of the rocket fighter, better range)
Super sonic fighter (superior upgrade before the stealth fighter with missiles and ECM/ECCM)
Light jet bomber
Heavy jet bomber
And also I plan to do some specialist units like the IL-40 and harrier jump jet. The planes are quite quick and easy to do so I should have them done soon.
Rocket powered fighter (Very early jet fighter, limited range, but good attack power)
2 engine bomber (most of the german bombers were twins cos hitler kept demanding more bombers, quantity over quality)
4 engine bomber (like the std firaxis one)
6 engine bomber (super heavy bomber with full range and good defence, but very expensive)
Sub sonic jet fighter (upgrade of the rocket fighter, better range)
Super sonic fighter (superior upgrade before the stealth fighter with missiles and ECM/ECCM)
Light jet bomber
Heavy jet bomber
And also I plan to do some specialist units like the IL-40 and harrier jump jet. The planes are quite quick and easy to do so I should have them done soon.
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
O.K Iv'e done the default preview of the Heavy WWII bomber. It looks quite good next to the four engine Firaxis bomber so I think I'll leave that one (saves me some work).
The grey colour on the wings is the civ colour. I was tired with stars etc.. as civ colours and wanted to do something a bit more obvious. Is it the right size? I don't think it is too big.
The grey colour on the wings is the civ colour. I was tired with stars etc.. as civ colours and wanted to do something a bit more obvious. Is it the right size? I don't think it is too big.
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
And here is a preview of the twin engine bomber;
