Units expelling other units, hidden modifiers

[TheMeInTeam]

TMIT can you show a screenshot of the master declaring war on you? (from the event log or whatever). I want to put my suspicion to rest if it's wrong.

I always thought it was like the new master takes the vassal under his control, but the human player is furious at this action and declares war on the new master.

The problem if this is true though, is that the human player's units are being bumped outside of his turn which I would argue is unfair.

I didn't save it, but it's reasonably easy to replicate. I've been on both ends of the "peaceful vassal" thing. TAKING the vassal who is at war with someone else causes you to declare war.

My favorite instance of this was when I was playing a game with my friend, and completely smacking Asoka, an AI. He wasn't really paying attention, so when I have Asoka down to 1 city, he accepts Asoka's request to vassal to him.

I was shocked! Haha! My friend is a total peacemonger, his war skills are about 2 difficulties behind his regular play level/ability. But, I was actually afraid for a moment, because HE declared war on ME! He had a minor tech lead of about 4 techs, but by then I had 3x his land. I was like "oh crap. He's wised up. He's going to hit me while I'm vulnerable and backward and take away my production advantage at the hardest possible time for me!"

My fears were short lived. He had naught, and took peace (didn't realize that this would force him to declare war ).

Long story short, this and many other times the MASTER will be the one declaring war. Actually, now that I think about it, in madscientist's first ROME! All or nothing! game (the one I took over) I took hatty as a voluntary vassal and this caused me to declare war on her enemy, so there's some evidence there.

Anyway I guess this one's pretty rare.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I'm not disagreeing with what happens to initiate the war, and that it is the master's doing... but I think it's like that Spy Discovered event. The player is forced into declaring war on someone outside his turn (just as an AI would as well) but it looks completely unnatural because you did not give the order to DoW.

I don't want to question you TMIT but given you play the game so fast I'd be surprised if you paid really close attention to every detail in the event log. I know I personally would probably just hear the war horns, see the new AI at war with me, and assume they declared on me.

I just want to keep you to your word because if there is a bug you need to very specific about detail. As you know, expressing disbelief and frustration at a game mechanic is not enough to prove a bug exists.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm not disagreeing with what happens to initiate the war, and that it is the master's doing... but I think it's like that Spy Discovered event. The player is forced into declaring war on someone outside his turn (just as an AI would as well) but it looks completely unnatural because you did not give the order to DoW.

I don't want to question you TMIT but given you play the game so fast I'd be surprised if you paid really close attention to every detail in the event log. I know I personally would probably just hear the war horns, see the new AI at war with me, and assume they declared on me.

I just want to keep you to your word because if there is a bug you need to very specific about detail. As you know, expressing disbelief and frustration at a game mechanic is not enough to prove a bug exists.

Well, it will be reasonably simple to post a picture/save when someone declares war on someone else due to taking a vassal peacefully. Replicating the "in enemy territory that becomes vassal while master has a unit there" would be harder. Probably possible to replicate with the world builder, but in all my games this is the only time that's happened (as a rule, I logically try to avoid the situation since it's usually a screw-job).

Actually I forgot, I do have some pic proof of who declares on who:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=308986&page=2

Check out post 64, the 1385 picture. That was the master taking the vassal. The MASTER declares.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Thanks for the pic - that's enough to convince me.

So now the issue I have in all this mess is that when the master declares war by taking the vassal, his units are able to bump your units off of tiles. This is IMO the wrong way round and possibly exploiitable by the master (still, pretty rare and hard to do I agree).