Universal Suffrage

[Sam_Catchem]

Does it do anything? It sure doesn't seems so. Maybe an extra turn before Disorder..maybe?..Am I missing something?

 

[Polonius]

It reduces War Weariness. (only really an issue if you're at war under certain government types).

The quickest way to find out these things is to check the civilopedia (click on that little button with the A at the top left of your screen).

If the manual had a decent bloody index you could find it there too (the info is on p.102.). Unfortunately, it has a lousy index, but pages 101/102 and 114 have the Wonder info.

 

[bst1]

I think he's saying he hasn't noticed it having any impact on war weariness. I'm not sure I have either.

 

[Polonius]

You know, I rather think that you’re probably right. If so, it might have improved his chances of getting the right answer if he’d asked the right question – which is “How does Universal Sufferage effect War Weariness?” It might have save me a bit of typing too! Still, never mind, perhaps English isn’t his first language. And perhaps we can nut it out anyway.

Firstly, “War weariness” apparently only affects citizens who are under a Republican or Democratic government, so if you have any other type of government they aren’t actually War Weary, they’re just being their usual hard to please selves. So Universal Sufferage will then have no effect – except to add 4 Culture points to its city. (See the manual p.116 and 125)

But assuming you do have a Democracy or Republic then the first question is how do you know when and whether your people are actually suffering from War Weariness yet. It doesn’t automatically cut in just because you are at war. Did you get a message? Did you see a noticeable drop in attitude? Because if you didn’t, then you aren’t likely to spot the change back either.

If it was simply a subtle or gradual loss of happiness, then it’s possible that the improvement may not be all that quick and obvious either. Or your war may not have yet depressed them enough (the Civilopedia talks of a number of differing degrees of severity – e.g. it’s less if you weren’t the one to declare war, etc). The manual also says that it cuts in “eventually” – so if you can’t see anything happening (with or without the Wonder) then War Weariness may well not have started to take effect yet. So you ain’t going to see a cure for something you haven’t got!

The last time I went to war in a big way under a Democracy the citizens were all as happy in pigs in mud, so I don’t think I’ve ever seen War Weariness. According to the Civilopedia it causes a deterioration in happiness. So I guess the only way to find out what Universal Sufferage does is to check out all your proles just before getting Universal Sufferage and then tracking their little faces for a few turns to see if they cheer up. I don’t think you’ll see much dramatic happening anywhere else.

Anybody got any more specific details please?

 

[Panda]

IIRC, Universal Suffrage reduces war weariness when you defend yourself, aka you are not the aggressor. However, if you are the party to declare war, UniSuf will have no or little effect.

 

[Sam_Catchem]

Sorry for the confusion. I was being sarcastic...I do not think it does all that much.

This weekend Persia declared war on my fine Egptian society..and suddenly after a few turns..my Democracy was overthrown. What a bunch of hooey! I was NOT the aggressor. My question is..Does anybody have any definitive proof this thing does anything? Or is it one of those Wonders you get because you have nothing better to do.

 

[Polonius]

Hi Sam!

Do you have any info on when War Weariness actually cuts in? The manual is its usual vague self on this, and I'm not sure that I've ever seen it happen. Do you get a message "We your ever whinging citizens are now officially pissed off with war" or what?

There's no way we can assess the effects of the Wonder unless we know exactly what effect that it's overcoming. I'm sure that Firaxis would have it do SOMETHING, and they seem to say that it's improving happiness. It's more like WHEN isn't it?

 

[Sam_Catchem]

My guess is that it is tied into luxuries or something. If you are in a war you lose trade. M guess is that people were ticked off because they couldn't get their Dyes and Spices or some such thing. Here is what happened. Persia declares war on me. I go ramp up production on tanks and the like. They make some landings on my continent. They have a whole slew of cavalry. I go to War Mobilization..and defend. Five or so turns into it..like 75% of all my cities go into Civil Disorder..on the next turn they are all going nuts. I have ALL the improvements..Polcie Stations and Courthouses. Finally, I gave up and went to communism. Which blows..cause all I wanted to do is go for a stalemate war. THe whole time this whole catastrophe was going on..I kept thinking to my self..what good is this Suffrage thing anyways...except culture points...which is what I was trying to go for.

 

[eyrei]

I have actually noticed Universal Suffrage to be quite effective, when combined with police stations. I can usually wage war for 10+ turns before I even have to bump up the luxury rate. If I am the agressor, I just raise the luxury rate 10% at the beginning and then have about 15-20 turns before things go awry. Universal suffrage is on of my must have wonders, because I tend to talk a lot of **** in the modern era.

 

[Loopy]

Click on the unhappy people to see why they're unhappy. If the main reason is "It's just too crowded" or something like that, they went into civil disorder because of lost luxuries. If they're frowning because "We're just saying give peace a chance!", war weariness has kicked in. War weariness hasn't show its ugly head until decades of war in my current game. Once it starts though, things just get worse and worse. Fortunately it seems to reset after one turn of peace. I always seem to get Universal Sufferage and it seems to help.

 

[doink66]

I was in a democracy, built Universal Suffrage first, and a few turns later the Chinese attacked me. I was at war with them only 7 turns when 1/3 of my cities went into civil disorder because of war weariness... I tried to tweak them out with entertainers to keep them happy but there were too many unhappy people. This is ridiculous... I mean I didn't have police stations but 7 turns? when I was the one who was attacked? I spent the next 100 years in communism kicking everyones ass around me.. figured I'de take care of every potential war while I was part of the collective before I switched back to democracy when my pansy assed citizens could be happy and fruity. If I can only expect a war to last 10 turns before my civ goes to the crapper in a war under democracy then no amount of police stations, patched courthouses and great wonders like Universal Suffrage could possibly make it worth it to go to war as democracy.

Funny then how many democracies go to war now adays and easily keep their citizens happy by feeding them media propaganda.

 

[eyrei]

Seven turns is actually not bad if you don't have police stations. Realistically, people in a democracy will raise a lot of hell if a war goes on for 7 years. If you had police stations you would have had 15-20 years to end the war before it became a major problem. Propoganda only works for so long. Try playing a religious civ. Aggressive AI civs hoping to pick on your pansy democracy will be in for quite a surprise when you suddenly switch to communism, and pump out two infantry/city each turn. This is really the major advantage of a religious civ.

 

[Sam_Catchem]

Hmm..I will have to check what my people are saying. That might lead me to some clues. Thanks for the tip..I always forget you can ask.

As for the game..I just went to communism. Built up my military...sent them off to Persia..and razed a ton of his cities. He isn't in any condition to stop me now. Ahh..the beauty of religous civs..1 turn and they are so toast.

 

[menelaus]

I have to agree: pretty worthless Wonder. Does nothing in times of peace. Barely works in times of war.

Same with the police station. I never thought of a police station being USELESS in times of peace. What happened to making unhappy people content?

 

[menelaus]

Woohoo! Just found out that the patch lets the police stations fight corruption! Now if only that extended to the Univ. Suffrage wonder too!

 

[Quokka]

Don't know if it really works or not, but I have it and seem to be able to wage war AGAINST an aggressor for what seems like forever, without tweaking anything. I don't know if its because of Suffrage or just game mechanics, the Civilopedia says WW is less when defending. My people still spit the dummy when I am the ATTACKER, they really don't like that under Democracy.
Best reason to build it is still the same, so the AI can't, bet it works better for them.

 

[tetley]

I think the reason the Police Stations don't make unhappy citizens content is because they keep catching your citizens speeding.

 

[Moulton]

My last war lasted about 400 years--60 turns. Started as republic, changed to democracy toward the end. War weariness was definitely a factor. In my home cities, I had enough infrastructrure that I maintained them at 'content'. conquered cities, however.... 1 content, next unhappy...
Peace restored happiness in one turn.
Suffrage is due to finish shortly. However, to answer the original question, yes it is effective. Pervious game it dropped war weariness from barely manageable to easily managed. , from needing 1 or more entertainers in almost every city , to making most citizens at least productive, if not actually happy. It was a democracy.

I'll have to figure out a way to test it. I am fat, lazy and rich (as a civ--English) so I guess I'm going to have to start a war somewhere. Maybe I'll just push the Zulus into the Persians, and take all their nice resources....

 

[firebead]

Are Universal Sufferage and Police Station overlaping? I thought US is equivelent of putting a police station in every city? I I am wrong, I need to go back and build PS in all of my cities!!!

Anyone to clarify this?

 

[holyman]

usually u can ask for a peace treaty after the war goes for 5 turns. in this case u can always be the aggressor, take a few cities, and declare cease fire after 5 turns. after that u rest and replendish units, start aggession again. dont think war weariness will hurt much in this way.