Unofficial BTS 3.13 patch

[Refar]

Yes i know all rivers act that way. But the Starting plot is supposed to be near freah water, so technically this is not a 100% legal starting plot, but despite there is space to make it legal by adding fresh water, the map generator does not - that was my point.

 

[lilnev]

Actually SevenSpirits already point this out, and I've already got it fixed. But thanks for the heads-up regardless.

Excellent. Is it fixed in the latest "release" linked in the first post? I didn't see it in the changelist, and didn't see CvGame.cpp in the collection of source files in the download, so I assumed nothing in that file had been changed....

thanks again,
lilnev

 

[Woody1]

Well, I can understand those that say it's a bug and those that say it isn't.
To me a bug is also AI not using a feature the way it should. In this case (from what I've seen), the AI does not make stupid decisions, it doesn't make any decision at all, it simply automatically creates a colony as soon as it can. A fine line, I know, but it's a difference.
The way it is now, I will turn off Vassal States for the time being since it cripples the AI too much.

Does it really cripple the AI very much, when it creates colonies so easily? The combined hammers are still the same, the money is still the same (higher, actually, with the reduced colony expenses), they share the same wars.

The only thing that is bad about it, is that the AI can't do shared research. But since the colony is created with such a strong diplomatic rating (+10 for being freed), then the AIs are very likely to trade technologies as they research them.

I think it really only hurts the AI when tech-trading is turned off. Then, both the master and vassal colony have to both research the same technologies. It doesn't appear that the AI takes the tech-trading setting into account, when deciding to create a colony. This, IMO, is the bug, not the fact that the AI creates colonies easily.

Colonies hurt the human player because humans don't necessarily play the game like the AI. But the computer acts the same way whether it is the master or colony, so I really don't see the big deal.

 

[Todd Hawks]

Does it really cripple the AI very much, when it creates colonies so easily? The combined hammers are still the same, the money is still the same (higher, actually, with the reduced colony expenses), they share the same wars.

The only thing that is bad about it, is that the AI can't do shared research. But since the colony is created with such a strong diplomatic rating (+10 for being freed), then the AIs are very likely to trade technologies as they research them.

I think it really only hurts the AI when tech-trading is turned off. Then, both the master and vassal colony have to both research the same technologies. It doesn't appear that the AI takes the tech-trading setting into account, when deciding to create a colony. This, IMO, is the bug, not the fact that the AI creates colonies easily.

Colonies hurt the human player because humans don't necessarily play the game like the AI. But the computer acts the same way whether it is the master or colony, so I really don't see the big deal.

Well, you assume here that the master and the colony will work together, which is not the case at all. In my last game, it only took about 50 turns for one of the colonies to become independent (and henceforth be hated by the former master). Also, even if they stick together, they don't actually combine their military force, therefore they are weaker by definition and less likely to stand up to you. As far as I know they don't share resources (as in "having one resource is enough for both of them"). And so on... if you think two separate AIs are the same as one bigger one, you are very mistaken.

 

[Woody1]

Well, you assume here that the master and the colony will work together, which is not the case at all. In my last game, it only took about 50 turns for one of the colonies to become independent (and henceforth be hated by the former master). Also, even if they stick together, they don't actually combine their military force, therefore they are weaker by definition and less likely to stand up to you. As far as I know they don't share resources (as in "having one resource is enough for both of them"). And so on... if you think two separate AIs are the same as one bigger one, you are very mistaken.

I've never seen colonies declare war on their masters. You're right, vassal+master isn't as good as if it was a "permanent alliance" where they can share resources and stuff.

But is it really a bad bug? I'm not sure when the AI decides to break off the colony, but is it when the "Sid tips" nags the player to do it? I was playing a game when I got the nag to create a 5-city colony, so I tested how much I'd lose by doing it.

I saved $100 in expenses, but lost $400 in revenue (taxes set at 100% wealth), for a net loss of $300 per turn. (If my taxes were 100% research, I'd be down about 400 beakers but up 100 coins.)

It just didn't seem like a big deal. I was down about 25% in income overall, but got a friendly vassal in return. As a human player, that vassal is kind of useless because I can't control it. But doesn't the computer AI do a better job at that?

I don't think of creating a colony as a win-win scenario. It's more like a "dump these cities because I can't be bothered managing them anymore". A friendly vassal seems like a decent tradeoff for less micro-managing. I lose some income, but (if the vassal is smart, which admittingly he often isn't), we still have the same combined hammers and more combined income. Two computer allies may be able to make use of those combined hammers and income more effectively than a human master + AI vassal.

What about if you have permanent alliances turned on? Can a vassal and master form a permanent alliance? That would seem to allow the full benefits of resources and tech research, in addition to removing the colony expenses. Anyone ever seen this in a game?


Okay, I do agree the computer does create colonies too easily. However, I wouldn't want to see them never create colonies if that was "fixed" in a patch.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

What about if you have permanent alliances turned on? Can a vassal and master form a permanent alliance?

No, (although I consider that a bug, probably from the code designed to prevent a vassal civ from forming a permanent alliance with Another civ)

 

[jkp1187]

No, (although I consider that a bug, probably from the code designed to prevent a vassal civ from forming a permanent alliance with Another civ)

I doubt that's a bug -- it's probably intended to keep people from getting PA's with conquered vassals.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I doubt that's a bug -- it's probably intended to keep people from getting PA's with conquered vassals.

The conquered vassal would still have to Like you... and while that is possible with conquered vassals it takes a while for the 'declared war on us' to be replaced by the 'defensive pact' bonus

 

[Seven05]

Here's a minor one that has no effect on the default game but can break mods that disable techs and still allow starting in later eras. What happens is when each civ is initialized they're given a bunch of free techs based on the starting era but the code only checks the starting era of the tech and ignores the setting in <bDisable> for that tech. This may also give disabled techs to civs created later in the game if the mod author uses the initFreeState() method. This will aslo give any free techs defined by civ or handicap regardless of the bDisable state.

The fix is pretty simple, add a quick check to see if the Tech is disabled and it solves all of the above issues

In CvGame.cpp in the initFreeState() method:

Spoiler :

void CvGame::initFreeState()
{
	bool bValid;
	int iI, iJ, iK;

	for (iI = 0; iI < GC.getNumTechInfos(); iI++)
	{
		for (iJ = 0; iJ < MAX_TEAMS; iJ++)
		{
			if (GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iJ).isAlive())
			{
				bValid = false;

				if (!bValid)
				{
					if ((GC.getHandicapInfo(getHandicapType()).isFreeTechs(iI)) ||
						  (!(GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iJ).isHuman())&& GC.getHandicapInfo(getHandicapType()).isAIFreeTechs(iI)) ||
						  (GC.getTechInfo((TechTypes)iI).getEra() < getStartEra()))
					{
						bValid = !(GC.getTechInfo((TechTypes)iI).isDisable()); // World Piece
					}
				}

				if (!bValid)
				{
					for (iK = 0; iK < MAX_PLAYERS; iK++)
					{
						if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iK).isAlive())
						{
							if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iK).getTeam() == iJ)
							{
								if (GC.getCivilizationInfo(GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iK).getCivilizationType()).isCivilizationFreeTechs(iI))
								{
									bValid = !(GC.getTechInfo((TechTypes)iI).isDisable()); // World Piece
									break;
								}
							}
						}
					}
				}

				GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iJ).setHasTech(((TechTypes)iI), bValid, NO_PLAYER, false, false);
				if (bValid && GC.getTechInfo((TechTypes)iI).isMapVisible()) 
				{ 
					GC.getMapINLINE().setRevealedPlots((TeamTypes)iJ, true, true); 
				} 
			}
		}
	}

	for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_PLAYERS; iI++)
	{
		if (GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).isAlive())
		{
			GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).initFreeState();
		}
	}
}

 

[ReneAlex]

Hi!

a quick one: is this patch working with any language version of the game? in my case german?

Thanks
Rene

 

[Refar]

Should be. There is nohing language specific here.

 

[ReneAlex]

many thanks for your quick reply!
this is indeed a great forum!

 

[Minmaster]

i have recently started playing with this patch and noticed one thing; on official patch, on emperor level, AI would try to stop research to put everything into culture for cultural victory. i have noticed that with this patch, they don't do this. is it just me or was this changed?

 

[Benford's Law]

Refar,

I had a discussion thread on that very same topic concerning end of rivers and river corners qualifying (or not) for fresh water and trade:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=254309&highlight=river+trade

It appears everything is working as it should in this case.

~Benford's Law

EDIT- Sorry, I didn't see your post #1581

 

[ggganz]

i have recently started playing with this patch and noticed one thing; on official patch, on emperor level, AI would try to stop research to put everything into culture for cultural victory. i have noticed that with this patch, they don't do this. is it just me or was this changed?

Play another game or two. Are you sure they NEVER do this?

 

[Jaybe]

i have recently started playing with this patch and noticed one thing; on official patch, on emperor level, AI would try to stop research to put everything into culture for cultural victory. i have noticed that with this patch, they don't do this. is it just me or was this changed?

Oh yes, they will still do 100% Culture. But generally only one civ, and it definitely won't happen every game.

 

[Locus Coeruleus]

can you play PBEM games using this patch, or is it single play only?

 

[Refar]

Just try it out. I think it should work.

 

[ggganz]

Either you all have Bhruic's or none of you have Bhruic's. If one doesn't, he should get it. If only one does, play without it or wait for everyone else to get it.

 

[Locus Coeruleus]

ok, thanks!