Unofficial honor system BTS GOTM play thread

[DaviddesJ]

I wish the cents of beaker were added in the final number, so you wouldn't need to use only 0% science or 100% science.

Do you really think this makes more than a negligible difference, if you just ignore it? If it's a fraction of a beaker per turn, it can't be more than a couple hundred beakers over the whole course of the game, which is really negligible. At most, it matters only in the early turns, when it's not a big deal to manipulate.

 

[jesusin]

Do you really think this makes more than a negligible difference, if you just ignore it? If it's a fraction of a beaker per turn, it can't be more than a couple hundred beakers over the whole course of the game, which is really negligible. At most, it matters only in the early turns, when it's not a big deal to manipulate.

Early game, I am doing 11 commerce, at 80% research it means 8 beakers and 2 gold, where is the eleventh? In the beggining it is easily a 5% of your research. In the exemple it is 12%.

Then there is the other problem. I am researching Writing, I am doing 18 beakers a turn, isolated start. Since I know 1 prerequisite I am getting a 20% increase in beakers. If I manipulate the bar to get 1 more beaker, then I will get 2, since 20 is a sweet spot for 20%.

Put this 2 factors together and by 1AD, when I am doing some 60bpt, they are worth as much as 2bpt, a 3% of my research output.

I wouldn't call negligible a factor that is around 3-5% for half of the game. It would have been so easy to put the cents into the total research and treasury!

EDIT: Please, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that, all in all, less micromanagement is needed.

 

[Conquistador 63]

@jesusin: I don't have BTS (not available here) but I might buy it in an upcoming trip to Europe. Thus I am interested in learning why do you think less micromanagement is needed, compared to vanilla civ.

 

[jesusin]

@jesusin: I don't have BTS (not available here) but I might buy it in an upcoming trip to Europe. Thus I am interested in learning why do you think less micromanagement is needed, compared to vanilla civ.

I'll try my best, but please keep in mind that I have played just one game so far.

1.- The turn a city gets out of revolt, it doesn't add any hammers, so you don't need to remember to choose anything the turn you take the city.

2.- In anarchy cottages don't grow and GP probabilities are not affected, so you don't have to change every citizen work when you start and when you end an anarchy period.

3.- In every city the cents of beakers/gold are taken into account. So if you have 4 cities, 100% research, 5 commerce per city you get a total of 6,25 beakers per city and 25 beakers civ-wide. It means that you don't need to adjust tiles for every city to produce beakers in multiples of 4.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I finished, thank you for the game.

Spoiler :

jesusin, cultural victory 1730AD.

This is my first game in BTS, I had only Vanilla before. I was so interested trying the new things that I lost focus and played very bad. I forgot my military, I was slow setting up cottages, I ignored Oracle, I failed to get Parthenon, I razed cities and never got to 9 cities, I stayed too long at 100%gold, I missmanaged my GPs in the late game.

With so many rivals I tried a peaceful very quick expansion, making use of the discounts on settlers and workers. Settled in place, researched BW for whipping, WB-WB-War-Set-Wor-moreSetandmoreWor.
Research BW-Pott-Alpha-PH-CoL-Curr-CS-Philo(bulbed)-Aes-Music-Liber-Natio(free)-0%research.

1000BC: 4cities, 30bpt, 6GPPpt.
1AD: 6cities, 62bpt, 2 religions, 9 cottages
1000AD: 7 cities, 162bpt, 3 religions, 16cotttages, 0 cathedrals.
1500AD: 8 cities, 700-400-400cpt, 6 cathedrals.

Shaka attacked when I had my pants down, my warrior kept his ground while they bombarbed my walls, lost 1 city twice, but recovered it and razed some of his cities.

Liberalism in 1100AD, 100% culture in 1400AD. Nothing to be proud of.

Fun game, thank you. The interturns took too long with the big map. I'll stick to Small/Tiny and Quick Speed in order to learn more in fewer games.

My impressions when comparing with Vanilla: The economy seems harder to me. The AI now tends to settle just on your borders. Also lots and lots of wars. Parthenon has been taken too far, it is now impossible to get a very early GA. Less micromanagement is needed. I wish the cents of beaker were added in the final number, so you wouldn't need to use only 0% science or 100% science. Playing without the HOF on takes much longer.


EDIT: I forgot to tell about my GPs. I mistakenly put the NE in the capital, which was too busy building things to grow GPP. I GS for Philo, 2GG which I really didn't know how to use best, 13GA. I bombed them 2-5-6, which in turn means that I put my cathedrals in the wrong city.

cultural victory in 1730 and that was your first BTS game!!!!!! Amazing I would say, even more since you had only 8 cities!!!

 

[Thrallia]

well there goes the honor system for this unofficial GOTM...

 

[jesusin]

well there goes the honor system for this unofficial GOTM...

I am confused now. Did I do anything dishonourable?
Or are you criticizing Indiansmoke because he unveiled my finish date?

 

[DarkAmen]

well there goes the honor system for this unofficial GOTM...

where did it go? I can see it; looks intact to me.

 

[jesusin]

cultural victory in XXXX and that was your first BTS game!!!!!! Amazing I would say, even more since you had only 8 cities!!!

Well, I have -a lot of- experience in Vanilla cultural games, and there aren't so many differences between Vanilla and BTS in the beginning of the game.

 

[Thrallia]

it was the finish date that he unveiled...I won't be participating since I'm keeping BtS in 3.02 until a decent patch comes out, I just assumed that finish dates were supposed to stay 'veiled' for players who went through this thread.

 

[DaviddesJ]

I just assumed that finish dates were supposed to stay 'veiled' for players who went through this thread.

Maybe you shouldn't flame people for violating your "assumptions".

 

[Thrallia]

I'm not sure how that was a flame, but I apologize to indiansmoke if I insulted him

 

[DaviddesJ]

Early game, I am doing 11 commerce, at 80% research it means 8 beakers and 2 gold, where is the eleventh? In the beggining it is easily a 5% of your research.

Huh? If you have 11 commerce and you set research to 80%, then you get 8 commerce (80% of 11, rounded down), and 3 gold (11 minus 8). There's no loss from rounding. This has been true in all versions of Civ4, as far as I know.

I am researching Writing, I am doing 18 beakers a turn, isolated start. Since I know 1 prerequisite I am getting a 20% increase in beakers. If I manipulate the bar to get 1 more beaker, then I will get 2, since 20 is a sweet spot for 20%.

OK, this might be true. But optimizing this can't be worth more than 0.5 bpt (i.e., if you totally ignore it, you lose a random fraction which will be 0.5 on average, and by optimizing it the best you can do is reduce that loss to 0).

 

[da_Vinci]

it was the finish date that he unveiled...I won't be participating since I'm keeping BtS in 3.02 until a decent patch comes out, I just assumed that finish dates were supposed to stay 'veiled' for players who went through this thread.

Maybe you shouldn't flame people for violating your "assumptions".

Hmm ... is this fighting fire with fire?

Or perhaps neither comment really had much combustion going on ...

dV

 

[Indiansmoke]

I'm not sure how that was a flame, but I apologize to indiansmoke if I insulted him

My fault for reveiling the finish date...However anyone could see it through the spoiler...right?

 

[jesusin]

Huh? If you have 11 commerce and you set research to 80%, then you get 8 commerce (80% of 11, rounded down), and 3 gold (11 minus 8). There's no loss from rounding. This has been true in all versions of Civ4, as far as I know.

I wish it worked that way. Please take a look at the pics. It is a 9 commerce example, not a 11 commerce one. 7 beakers and 1 gold; 1 commerce missing.

 

[DaviddesJ]

OK, I see that BTS has added some new rounding problems, even as it removed some old ones.

But getting a slight benefit from switching between 0% and 100% science doesn't seem like a big deal. It doesn't take any real time to do, right?

The effect of running at 0% first and then 100% later, when you have libraries (or other research enhancers) under construction, is going to be bigger most of the time. And that never goes away. So this "global" micromanagement seems unavoidable.

 

[m4gill4]

Thank you for this, I really wanted to play a w/gotm, but I don't have HD space for a dual install, and the methods for fixing just confuse me.

*edit*

upon reading the rest of the thread....I'm impressed!

You math whizzes who break down the game into every fraction of a gpt or beaker....

.... I love you! You do what I'm too lazy to do!

Jesusin: Buen Juego Amigo! Una Victoria Cultural muy temprana, en el primer intento!