UN's Human Development Index 2010 for released

Xanikk999

Xanikk999

History junkie
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I heard on the radio today about this and another poster mentioned it in another thread so I thought i should start a thread on it to bring about some discussion.

These are the top ten rankings:

Link

1 Norway 0.938 81.0 12.6 17.3 58,810 2 0.954
2 Australia 0.937 81.9 12.0 20.5 38,692 11 0.989
3 New Zealand 0.907 80.6 12.5 19.7 25,438 30 0.979
4 United States 0.902 79.6 12.4 15.7 47,094 5 0.917
5 Ireland 0.895 80.3 11.6 17.9 33,078 20 0.936
6 Liechtenstein 0.891 79.6 c 10.3 d 14.8 81,011 e,f –5 0.861
7 Netherlands 0.890 80.3 11.2 16.7 40,658 4 0.911
8 Canada 0.888 81.0 11.5 16.0 38,668 6 0.913
9 Sweden 0.885 81.3 11.6 15.6 36,936 8 0.911
10 Germany 0.885 80.2 12.2 15.6 35,308 9 0.915
Click to expand...

Ok, Norway I can understand. But how is the U.S only three? I sort of expected it to be behind countries like Canada and Germany. We don't even have free healthcare or all the universally free social services of some of those countries, and we have a lower life expectancy (not by much though).

I would like to see how they came to these rankings. I am sure its somewhere on the internet for me to peruse.

What is CFC's thought's on this?
 
Why is ireland so high?

where is UK? :O :D :(
EDIT: takes comfort from the fact 5 of those nations are derived from the British isles...
 
HDI is a composite of health (measured by life expectancy), standard of living (represented by GDP), and education (years of schooling). Previously they used literacy and enrollment levels for the education measure.

I'd assume that although its life expectancy is slightly lower, America does well on the 'years of schooling' index, and it certainly retains a high GDP (even though the use of production as a measure of wellbeing is deeply flawed). I note that the USA jumped a lot of places this year - that education measurement change must have had an impact.

This year they also published an inequality adjusted HDI which adjusted for the level of inequality in the health, standard of living and education measures:

1. Norway 0.876 ()
2. Australia 0.864 ()
3. Sweden 0.824 ( 6)
4. Netherlands 0.818 ( 3)
5. Germany 0.814 ( 5)
6. Switzerland 0.813 ( 7)
7. Ireland 0.813 ( 2)
8. Canada 0.812 ()
9. Iceland 0.811 ( 8)
10. Denmark 0.810 ( 9)
11. Finland 0.806 ( 5)
12. United States 0.799 ( 8)
13. Belgium 0.794 ( 5)
14. France 0.792 ()
15. Czech Republic 0.790 ( 13)
16. Austria 0.787 ( 9)
17. Spain 0.779 ( 3)
18. Luxembourg 0.775 ( 6)
19. Slovenia 0.771 ( 10)
20. Greece 0.768 ( 2)
21. United Kingdom 0.766 ( 5)

(New Zealand, Japan, and a few other highly developed countries lacked the data for this index)
 
NORWAY #1!

Norsk-flagg.jpg


AGAIN!


What? Somebody had to say it...

:D


In all seriousness though, I don't think there is too much difference for people living the middle class life in any of the top 10 or 20 or so countries.

While being poor, I'd rather be in a Scandinavian country, and being rich, I think I would rather be in the USA or elsewhere where the taxes for the rich are relatively low.
 
Australia #2!

Suck on that US #12!
 
Xanikk999 said:
Ok, Norway I can understand. But how is the U.S only three? I sort of expected it to be behind countries like Canada and Germany. We don't even have free healthcare or all the universally free social services of some of those countries, and we have a lower life expectancy (not by much though).

I would like to see how they came to these rankings. I am sure its somewhere on the internet for me to peruse.

What is CFC's thought's on this?
Click to expand...

Maybe for a poor person it is better to live in Germany, or Sweden, or a bunch of other places instead of the US. But for your typical worker with a decent enough job? There is no contest, the US wins hands down. Realistically Australia, Canada and New Zealand are on the same league, most of the rest of the world is not.
 
I wouldn't want to work in the US. There's not enough of a safety net when things go wrong.
 
Yes. They switched the education measure from literacy and enrollment to years of schooling.
 
Ah, I see. That makes sense. Also, the US is doing better on life expectancy than I thought, at 79.7 rather than the 77-78 numbers I seem to recall.

I like the new formula. USA #4!
 
Arwon said:
Yes. They switched the education measure from literacy and enrollment to years of schooling.
Click to expand...

How can that not be flawed? What were they thinking?

Years of schooling is not indicative of the education level of the individual. A person could of had 12 years of primary schooling but the schools could of been in disrepair, lack school supplies, misplaced priorities, and/or had horrible ignorant teachers which could lead to a not-quite-so good education. Look at how many Americans know much about world history for one minor example.

This makes the index much less valuable.
 
Arwon said:
I wouldn't want to work in the US. There's not enough of a safety net when things go wrong.
Click to expand...

When things go wrong? Why must things go so wrong as to need public funds to get back on your feet? Talk about pessimism and bad attitude.

I know this is an anedocte, but I work for a multinational company with operations in dozens of countries. The most sought after destinations are the ones I mentioned. The US is definately the favored work destination.
 
I like a functional public health insurance system and reliable social safety net. There's no guarantee that I or my loved ones won't ever need, say, disability or uninsurance support.

And yeah, even people with proper private health insurance can get screwed over by those companies in the US. Their medical system is terrifying.

And then there's education costs, if I ever have a family...
 
Arwon said:
Even people with proper private health insurance can get screwed over by those companies in the US. Their medical system is terrifying.
Click to expand...

Well if it makes you feel better about our privatized healthcare, if you cant afford to buy life sustaining medication for a particular ailment if you phone the company who makes it they will sell it to you for a discounted rate. They are not heartless, many companies will do this.

And even if they dont initially, they will because you can get them a ton of bad press by telling your story to the media! :D
 
Oh don't get me wrong, I have private health insurance. I can afford it and at some level of earnings (I don't think I reach it) there's a tax penalty if I don't. But it's nice to know I don't need it to get decent healthcare.

And also with private healthcare, I would want to be absolutely sure that it will, you know, actually cover me without dictating what doctors or hospitals I can go to, or trying to weasel out of honouring claims, or any of those other horror stories you hear about people with private health insurance who still manage to end up in medical bankruptcy.
 
Pay no attention to HDI. I fail to see just what exactly is gives an accurate measure of. Quality of life is more important than standard of living anyway.
 
luiz said:
Maybe for a poor person it is better to live in Germany, or Sweden, or a bunch of other places instead of the US. But for your typical worker with a decent enough job? There is no contest, the US wins hands down. Realistically Australia, Canada and New Zealand are on the same league, most of the rest of the world is not.
Click to expand...
What's a typical worker? Someone who forges steel or builds cars for a living?
Retail salespeople (like at a discounter)?
Teachers?
 
Xanikk999 said:
I heard on the radio today about this and another poster mentioned it in another thread so I thought i should start a thread on it to bring about some discussion.

These are the top ten rankings:

Link



Ok, Norway I can understand. But how is the U.S only three? I sort of expected it to be behind countries like Canada and Germany. We don't even have free healthcare or all the universally free social services of some of those countries, and we have a lower life expectancy (not by much though).

I would like to see how they came to these rankings. I am sure its somewhere on the internet for me to peruse.

What is CFC's thought's on this?
Click to expand...

Because most of what you belly ache about or would use to do your evaluating is figments of your imagination ;) Government provided or not is irrelevant, actual measurements are relevant.

It should be noted, as always, that for these lists the differences between #1 and #5 and #10 are irrelevant. We are all on the same relative level, fighting over pennies.
 
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