Useless things

[zebomba]

Every game has items of unknow use.

Cruise missiles: it's like an 1 shot artillery. LOL.
If they make it have a bombard range like the nuke, and allow all modern ships to carry a couple, then they would be useful. And it would be cool to watch it hitting.

Helicopters: They can't get in carriers and can't go far. Carry one infantry at best. What's the point? Modern choppers are called cavalry *hint hint*.

Paratroopers: can't get in bombers or carriers. Low range and firepower. Am I supposed to beat infantry using it?

Marines: By the time you build some and deliver them to the right spot, the enemy has mech inf. No big deal.

UUs: Can anyone tell what's the catch of the Musketeer, F-15 and Man o War?

Stealth fighter: useless bc their roll is being filled by stealth bombers. I know, it's realistic as they're right now, but too much realism disrupts gameplay. Besides, they could act as fighters very well.

Tactical nukes: ICBMs are better. For each nuke, you must build a slowass sub and get it to the front. Their only advantage is that you don't lose them if you lose your big cities. ICBMs are cheaper after patch, so they're the prime choice.

AEGIS Cruiser: In present day, they are the queens of the sea along with carriers. In game, good to spot subs only, but battleships can beat subs even if they're attacked. Bad bombardment value, loses to battleship 1vs1.

Complete the list, but please refrain from saying that spying, catapults, cannon, ironclads... are useless. They are quite useless, but not 100%.
Choppers and paratroopers are so lame that on deity and emperor the AI doesn't research advanced flight. Less items to clog the menu.

 

[AgerX]

You are right. I use about 40% of the available units, focusing on a large number of mounted units and tanks later.

 

[Rock]

I agree to you list of item. And did the following changes.

Helicopters: change capacity to 2. Range to 6.

Paratroopers and Marines: both will have attack 8 and defence 12. I do not believe a solider with machinegun has a poorer defence than a guy with a single shot gun. Their role is to hit and hold a position. There is no reason this special units to have poor defender and attack.

The reason for stealth fighter is for show. Everyone will use jet fighter for interception. And the interception ability did not increase with your use on more modern planes.

 

[zebomba]

I was thinking about multiplayer and some items can be useful.
Cruise missiles are for those 20 mech inf cities.
Also, tactical nikes are for the city with the SDI. If the civ loses it, then it's ICBM time.
In fact, a soldier using a submachine gun can have a lower defense than someone using a single shot "rifle". I can't remember the technical name of the weapon (M-16, AK-47, FAL). Snipers also can help defense.
But nowadays, many guns have single shot and burst mode.

 

[Magnus]

I think catapults (and all upgrades) are enormously important! crucial to wearing down fortified enemy units, otherwise, battles against entrenched forces start looking like WW1.

I build paratroopers but not helicopters. I likethe fact that para's can move 4 spaces in any direction, good for a forward assault from your borders when war begins (get them up to the front quickly to pillage resources and hold strategic terrain).

Marines are wonderful too! think about it, you got 2 transports (carrying 16 marines), 2 battleships, 2 destroyers, and 2 carriers (carrying 8 fighters). Look at all the bombardment! then your 16 marines will punish whatever is left standing. All that with a relatively small fleet.

 

[Ohwell]

Believe it or not, marine get a bonus attack value for amphibious assaults! I have had many a marines kill mech inf. I don't know exact values, but I once did a test where 10 marines attacked 10 mech inf. Only 3 marines died . Though they are useless on dry ground.

 

[zebomba]

Artillery is awesome, but cannon and catapult must be operated by some blind folks. Radar artillery seems to be broken or they swapped the values between them and artillery, since the modern version misses a lot.

Paratroopers... I would use bombers or just send in more armor instead. Or use some artillery if the idea is pillaging only.

It depends on ground... Mech inf using defense bonus can go all the way up to 50 def , so marines won't help there. Besides, why not land some armor instead? They attack is bigger than any marine using amphibious bonus.

 

[WarKiwi]

The Egyptian War Chariot is totally useless - it can't go through jungles or over mountains and is matched very quickly by the Horseman. They also cost 100 gold to upgrade to Knights! Who would pay that?

For a special unit they are pretty pathetic and discourage me from using the Egyptians.

 

[Salvor]

You might disagree along the same valid lines used to describe stealth fighters, but paratroopers are useful for the role they've played historically. They're not supposed to be more powerful than regular infantry. Their advantage is when they're used mainly for interdiction behind enemy lines at the opening of a major assault. They cut supply lines, disrupt reinforcements, and capture key strategic (usually logistical) positions.

I also have, on occasion, found the Egyptian chariots useful. True, they're not allowed in mountains or jungle, but they're better than most UUs (the Zulu have the only one that really makes a difference, but the Zulu have their own problems). They're as good as horsemen, but you get them sooner and they cost far less to build. For early-game rushes over open terrain they work great. And since losses that early are hard to take, they have the retreat ability. When I play Egyptians I always go for wheel right away and use chariots to take out my 2 nearest rivals before they can get a foothold.

 

[LordGuderian]

Paratroopers seem to have been heavily nerfed during the jump from Civ II to Civ III. While I haven't found a use for them here yet (I just got the game for Christmas), I seem to recall that they were very good for Barb defence in Civ II. The change seems to come from the fact that you can no longer wipe out an entire stack with one attack. If I'm not mistaken (and I may well be, it's been a few years since I've played Civ II), if you attacked a Barb stack, you simply had to defeat the unit with the most Def and the entire stack got wiped. Since Barb hordes tended to stack up pretty high untill they got within a few squares of your cities, it was easy to wait until the horde got within drop range, send your paratrooper out, and attack the square where the Barb leader was. If you were lucky, this could take out 5-10 units and pretty much de-fang the horde. The remaining few Barbs would then throw themselves at your trooper. If he survived, he simply headed back to his home city and healed up to wait for the next horde. Since this illogical (if somewhat useful) tactic is no longer valid, the paratrooper has become considerably less relevent.

 

[Zouave]

The two square range for cruise missiles is one of the stupider things in the bizarre mess of unit values.

Frigates, MOW, ironclads, and subs, have all been increased in value (esp offensively) by me. War elephants have had their defense value reduced to '2'. And cruise missiles had their range increased to '3'; I might increase that also.

Crusie Missiles have a lot more range than artillery, Sid!!

 

[invisibleBob]

That egyption war chariot rocks man! It was the main factor in my first victory on Emperor.

It costs 20 shields instead of the horsemans 30, allowing you to accumulate 50% more of the things. If there is a mountain range that you can't go round odds are the enemy civ has already put a road over it.

long live the:
Egyption warchariot
Persion imortal
Iriq Mounted warrior rider thingy
and most of all the mighty -
Aztec Jaguar warrior
mobs of 'em - providing you're not fighting Zulu or Greece you'll just over-run the enemy with sheer numbers and as they don't die in fights (they just retreat) you're army just gets bigger and bigger.

 

[invisibleBob]

That egyption war chariot rocks man! It was the main factor in my first victory on Emperor.

It costs 20 shields instead of the horsemans 30, allowing you to accumulate 50% more of the things. If there is a mountain range that you can't go round odds are the enemy civ has already put a road over it.

long live the:
Egyption warchariot
Persion imortal
Iriq Mounted warrior rider thingy
and most of all the mighty -
Aztec Jaguar warrior
mobs of 'em - providing you're not fighting Zulu or Greece you'll just over-run the enemy with sheer numbers and as they don't die in fights (they just retreat) you're army just gets bigger and bigger.

 

[whstaff]

I used to think these things were useless, and ONE (1) is, but a pack (6-10) can raise some pretty serious havoc with the AIs shipping before they have ironclads. Kinda fun adds some flare to the game. Especially if those other civs are always sending their frigates thru your waters, good way to teach 'em not to f--k with you.

 

[Loopy]

Originally posted by zebomba
Cruise missiles: it's like an 1 shot artillery. LOL.
If they make it have a bombard range like the nuke, and allow all modern ships to carry a couple, then they would be useful. And it would be cool to watch it hitting.

1 shot artillery that can destroy a unit, not just pound it down to 1 hp. You can destroy those pesky naval units destroying your impovements. Artillery + cruise missiles can sink that navy in no time at all. Cheap to build and can move on rail. Increasing the range to nuke or letting them board all ships would imbalance the game too much.

 

[zzcczz]

Yeah, the first time I built a cruise missile, I exected it to sink or kill anything that it hit. The first one used, only damaged an ironclad by one point, so I stopped building them.

I figured there must be some point to them, so I decided to build a few more last night and "experiment". I was surprised to learn that it was an unlucky shot. The key, is to damage the unit with artillery first, and then the cruise missile will almost always sink the ship when it hits (occassionally it will sink fully healed units).

 

[vulture]

Originally posted by Rock
Paratroopers and Marines: both will have attack 8 and defence 12. I do not believe a solider with machinegun has a poorer defence than a guy with a single shot gun. Their role is to hit and hold a position. There is no reason this special units to have poor defender and attack.

The reason for the poor attack/defence of Paratroopers and Marines has nothing to do with their rifles. Both are special units with special capabilities. To gain that extra advantage they go into combat with things the Army take for granted.

Fixed supply lines
Integrated artilery companys
Support units (repair, trucks, mobil surgical hospitals)
Mechanized support

Having a few Bradly's on your side can make a big difference and it is very hard to Parachut in with a 105mm Arty piece straped to your back.

 

[Omega]

I chose the American Civ coz of the F-15.... but what the hell good is it? Bombers are way better at bombing... and I can't seem to do precision strikes with it except on my OWN cities...

What the hell is a precision strike anyway, and who can execute it?

 

[Omega]

Hmmm... I can do precision strikes now... but still don't understand the role of the F-15... is it really useless??

 

[Mesopotamia]

Two words: Air superiority.