Using Rice as food

[Iamlags]

My settlements seem to only treat 'food' as food. Is rice only a tradeable good? My settlement keeps going into starvation mode even with rice surplus.

 

[andbruu]

As I understand it, many could-be-edible yields have gotten a secondary food yield, much like hunting produce both fur and food. So the food part has become part of the yield, while the product can be sold or refined.

I think it works fine for game balance, but it is a bit strange that I can only eat a bit of my fruit and must sell or distill the rest.

For rice (and other types of grain), you can bake it into bread. This however does not produce food. I expected it to have a secondary food output much like slaughtering livestock, but it does not.

I am sure the game balance would be off, if bread also produced food, or if any edible could help with growth. So I think its just one of those cases where game mechanics and expected realism does not fit perfectly – which is fine.

I am no programmer, and know nothing about how this game and mod is made. However, I can speculate, that if we would like our non-edible food (bread, fruit, etc.) to add to growth, we would have to add a new building to convert non-edibles directly into food.

It is also possible that the granary could “coded” to allow us to set a limit on how much of each non-edible food to keep, and convert the rest to food (possibly at a ratio of less than 1:1), much like the high-level storage building allows us to sell excess goods.

Still, all this would increase growth, which should then be balanced in some other way.

And just to make it clear, I don not think that any of this is needed – “New Hope” is very fun, as so far, I think everything fits well together. It is only speculations, born from me not being able to play for a few hours, and perhaps giving too long an answer to your question.

 

[raystuttgart]

My settlements seem to only treat 'food' as food. Is rice only a tradeable good?

The Profession already produces Rice + Food --> that is the reson why Rice is not equal to Food in the game.
If we follow your idea we would basically have Food + Food ---> Which is NOT what I wanted.

Historically Rice in 15th to 17th centuries was most of all an overproduced Cash Crop in the Colonies that was sold abroad.
Also AI should be able to use Rice / Cassava for Baked Products and not consume it otherwise.

Also it is historical fact that traders were still often hoarding their goods to sell them for profit even if there was starvation.
This indeed caused unrest several times in several of the early colonies. Later laws were established to prevent it.

Most of all for gameplay / balance and to not confuse AI.
It may be "simplified" but this is just the way it works best.

Otherwise the same argument you have just made could also be made for these here:
Cattle, Sheep, Chicken, Geese, Goats, Pigs, Horses, Red Pepper, Sugar, Cassava, Milk, Cheese, Fruits, Barley, Beer, ... all of that is in reality more or less Food.

Basically then half of the goods in the mod would suddenly be "Food" when people starve.
The Food mechanic would become totally rediculous for gameplay since nobody would still need the acutal Yield Food.

Do you really think that gameplay will be better if almost any Yield in the game is treated as Food?
For me that would be just a chaotic mess of game design in the name of immersion.

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Thus:
If a Yield is supposed to be also Food it is already modeled in the Professions.
No need anymore to model it a second time by the Yield itself because it would be redundant.
Again, this is a game that simplifies a few things to make it work for gameplay.

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So:
Sorry, there were reasons to do it the way it is now. (Balancing, AI, effort)
If I would have wanted to do it otherwise I would have done it otherwise.
Modding is always a compromise of something and it needs to simplify stuff to keep effort reasonable.

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Could this have been implemented differently? Of course. Everything can be done differently.
But this is simply the implementation that I am convinced works best for the game.

Also maybe ask yourself the question if you would really want to play a game as complex as reality?
It would be complete nightmare - thus many game rules / mechanics simplify to keep complexity at a bareable level.

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The good thing in modding:
Everything can be changed if you are motivated enough to invest the necessary time and effort.
So if somebody really wants to invest the effort to implement a more complex system, feel free to do so.

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Also for tiny questions like this, please use this thread.

[WTP] Quick questions

I can't believe, I have the honors of having the very 1st thread in the MOD that will be a successor to RaR! Exciting!

forums.civfanatics.com

 

[Milamber1931]

I think the redundancy of having what seems like 15 food types (not actually going to count them all) is a weight on the gameplay mainly through the trade interfaces. Not saying they're microscopic but when I look at the plethora of commodities available I can barely make out some of the totals because so little space is devoted to them per square. One solution would be to take a deeper look at what food actually is which is A) a necessity for survival and optimal health in variety and abundance and B) a commercial product that can exceed value in domestic markets when introduced to new populations. One great example of this is that Charles II considered it an honor to just be able to hold a pineapple when someone gave him the opportunity. Ray makes the excellent point that the worst aspects of Capitalism were on display when wealthy merchants put their desire for profit over the tangible needs of those around them and hoarded certain foodstuffs in times of scarcity. To acknowledge both A & B Food should be grouped into Protein, Carbs and Fruits/Veggies and when a colony has a balance or surplus of all those receives a Health bonus. On the other hand with regards to foods gaining novelty and exploding in value, it would be interesting to have them experience a higher swing of ups and downs in prices to acknowledge their place in the economy as fads more than nutrition. Lastly, in enhancing trade and commerce it would be a very accurate representation to show that once an item of any kind has been produced longer and with enough skill it demonstrates the particular style and culture of the group of people producing it. To bring this into gameplay it would be fun to have items become specific to the colony producing them after a large enough quantity of them had been sold in Europe to have them become branded as unique to that colony. It should require a larger amount of the raw material, longer time by the expert colonist and of course sell for a higher price to reflect those costs when at market. Examples of this would be Cuban cigars, Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey, Greek Feta Cheese, Neopolitan Pizza and all of the goods that the European Union has granted protection to over the years. Lastly in addition to a higher price at market what these goods should produce is a culture boost because they demonstrate that the Culture and ways of the colony is taking on a shape of its own and is no longer dependent on the mother country's. Long term ideas for the next edition but I feel it represents some of the case the colonists had when they insisted that they were ready to stand on their own two feet and sever the ties with their European nations. Also, a lot of effort to be sure but a screen fully dedicated to just managing commerce would be really helpful. When I'm in a colony view and tallying up goods for shipment the last thing on my mind is the distribution of labor so it would be great to just look at the balance sheets and fleet available for the logistics of trade on the home big screen

 

[johnsonb2090]

I'm personally fine with the current implementation of multi-yields. Maybe there could be an added job to the tavern to produce raw food out of food-like resources. It would probably make more sense to do an entire new building to keep the tavern from overcrowding lol. Possibly a job that could be added to the granary line that could convert food goods into raw food

Example
Food preserver - 3 rice : 3 food
Food preserver - 3 baked good : 9 food

Then you could use baked goods to essentially compress food storage so you could keep something like 20 baked goods in your remote desolate mining town instead of shipping raw food to them. If you wanted you could even add penalties to using food distribution vs shipping animals then slaughtering them or hunting/fishing/farming

Example
Food preserver - 3 rice : 3 food -2 happiness (want fresh food!)
Food preserver - 3 baked good : 9 food -2 happiness (want fresh food!)

Butcher - 3 animal : 3 food + 3 product +1 happiness (fresh meat!)

This might add some incentive to not relying 100% on baked goods or mass grain for food needs

If a whole new building was added, maybe a food preservation line. Rename baked goods to preserved foods (would still make sense for equipping units). Bakery ends up becoming some sort of food processing building (think meat smoker/grain miller/preserves)

 

[cammcken]

In older versions, food could almost always be more efficiently produced by farming the tile directly instead of as a by-product. If you really need food, build collecter's depots / vineyards / spice depots instead of pastures, or chop down the taiga and build trapper's huts instead of hunting. Often, by getting all the perfect modifiers, food as a byproduct can match the yield of direct farming, but you will rarely gain more food by butchering or hunting. (Exception: map bonuses). I have not done the math for rice, feathers, fruit in the newer version.