v11 feedback

From experience most of the goodies seem to be pretty even, but I don't know where to look to get the actual chance numbers. Maybe there are too many pods, especially since it seems impossible to get a bad result.

Lots of choppers like that seems like the perfect time for an early rush.
 
From experience most of the goodies seem to be pretty even, but I don't know where to look to get the actual chance numbers. Maybe there are too many pods, especially since it seems impossible to get a bad result.

Lots of choppers like that seems like the perfect time for an early rush.

True, they came in handy, I used one to explore and the rest to kill mindworms threatening my initial base. I just wish they could buy special abilities.
 
True, they came in handy, I used one to explore and the rest to kill mindworms threatening my initial base. I just wish they could buy special abilities.

I agree. A re-equip/re-tool spell would be great. First to let an existing unit buy new ability slot(s) that would be available to a new unit, with a cost for each gained slot. It could also be used to let a unit lose it's old ability slots and pick new ones, with the cost increased for each slot lost.
 
I agree. A re-equip/re-tool spell would be great. First to let an existing unit buy new ability slot(s) that would be available to a new unit, with a cost for each gained slot. It could also be used to let a unit lose it's old ability slots and pick new ones, with the cost increased for each slot lost.

Yeah re-equipping would be cool as well. Hmm, re-equipping should be more expensive than upgrading a unit w/o special abilities though, if not just to penalize the player.
 
In my current Uni game the first pod I explored spawned a chopper. I used the chopper to explore and it popped 4 choppers in a row (after that I got an xp gain spawn twice in a row with the same chopper). Are choppers are very common pod spawn?

Yes, happens to me as well - not in every game, but the danger is the snowball effect it can create. I remember a recent discussion in the unity pod result thread about new pod outcomes, so more ideas can't hurt - we have less possibilities then in SMAC, because some things are either technically not feasible or don't fit in Planetfall and negative outcomes go against zero in my games.


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Some more observations...

1. Would it be possible to auto-wake the bunkers out of the fortify mode, if an enemy comes in range? Currently, you only have the choice between screening the minimap or the log every turn and then to wake the bunker in range of enemies manually (tedious and I tend to miss one sometimes) or to let bunkers in endangered areas skip the turn round for round (even more tedious)

2. I encountered Lal spamming/accumulating tranports in his capital...not sure, if he has a special plan with them and if my save is helpful to track the issue, if there is one at all...

3. The current implementation of Submarines creates a difficulty in dealing with native life from the moment you get hands on Magnetic Acceleration - from then on, every new sub gets Stealth for free and the subs refuse to defend your formers vs. native life - they just get ignored, the aquaformer gets disabled and the IoD/Lurk sits "under" the sub. Beside that this can be a trap especially for newbies (because when subs come up first and replace the foil units/coast guards, they are your new defender on sea), the replacement which show up with the same tech (Destroyers) is not suited for that task - the -50% on native fauna makes it nearly impossible to defend a former on such a tile. I wonder what was the reason behind merging subs and boats into one type (beside making the Photon-Wall ability more useful - but it could also give a bonus against a seperate submarine class; against foils/coast gurads no one needs an extra bonus anyway...)? For my taste the lifespan of "true" boat units like foils and coast guards is short anyway (though that might be a playstyle issue) - allowing the boat units with their retrictions through the entire game would be the best solution for the submarine problem, IMO.

4. Governors sometimes seem to be very unwilling to grow cities which still have a lot of unused health/happiness (also, I didn't played a green strategy, so growth is important) - you have to set the emphasize to food then to get them into working
enough food-rich tiles. It isn't a big issue for me, but hopefully the AI does not suffer from this (the save shows this behaviour for Großzion - without growth emphssize stagnation; if you enable it, base grows)
 
Yeah re-equipping would be cool as well. Hmm, re-equipping should be more expensive than upgrading a unit w/o special abilities though, if not just to penalize the player.

I agree, that's why I proposed a cost to strip abilities in addition to the cost to select new abilities.

1. Would it be possible to auto-wake the bunkers out of the fortify mode, if an enemy comes in range?

The Sentry ability worked for me. Although I guess there could be times when you can see 2 tiles away, but your bunker can't see that far even though it can fire that far. Maybe bunkers should get deep radar for free.

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Ok, so I don't double post, here are some things I noticed in my last game (v11f).

1. Late built cities didn't get magtubes in the city tile. I *think* it stopped after discovering the magtube tech. Using a former to build a magtube in a city worked fine, but it doesn't seem intended to work that way.
2. Do the improved collateral promotions work? I didn't notice a difference.
3. The Ruins icon is not used in the datalinks (still shows the deer).
4. Guerilla 1 promotion should just be Guerilla (since there is no #2).
5. Guerilla 1 promotion is still available (and being taken by barbarian) Isles of the Deep.
6. Librarians generating Hackers doesn't seem intuitive to me. How about Hackers generating Operators or Codebreakers (both seem better than Great Hacker).
7. Hyperions can upgrade to Cyborgs (oops?).
8. Flamethrower bonuses seem mixed up (should be +all vs natives, +attack vs infantry).
9. Flamethrowers can't take Empath Song (which is logical), but Hyperions start with it.
10. Walkers need a 9 strength or a bonus vs infantry (a Cyborg gets +50% vs infantry making a Cyborg stronger than it's upgrade the Walker).
11. InVitro units should never obsolete, since their concept and build mechanic are different than Mobile Infantry.
12. Can choppers please upgrade to dropships? Seems logical to me, and gives a way to have an already promoted (and therefore defendable) transport later in the game.
13. How much work would be involved in splitting the civilopedia screens for promotions and special abilities?
14. How about Launch Bay instead of Rails. Launch Rails make me think of a big railgun.
15. What enables Resonance Cluster?
16. Missing native combat promotions Larval Mass (#1), Pre-boil (#4). Fiendish (#7) if you don't like one of those.
 
Formers being consumed to build bunkers is really getting on my nerves,

because my automated formers keep doing it. The AI apparently has no clue about decent strategic placement of a bunker, so it's essentially just a suicide button, and I've got formers randomly vanishing all over the place because they think it's a great idea to build a bunker in the heart of my empire where no enemy will ever reach. So I have to micromanage every former, or live with them randomly dying to accomplish nothing, and thusly having to build far more than I should need.

You give a gun to a monkey, it's going to end up killing itself sooner or later.
 
So I have to micromanage every former, or live with them randomly dying to accomplish nothing, and thusly having to build far more than I should need.
Oh, I agree that the AI has a bit of a thing for bunkers, I just never noticed, because I rarely automate my workers/formers. But I still think that former consumption is a good way to give some "cost" to it - without that, the AI would still spam your territory with bunkers, which would then cost you energy - not really preferable. And giving out bunker units for no cost but time sounds too good (plus, it wouldn't prevent the AI from "locking" up your formers by building bunkers).

I think it's better to somehow get the AI to avoid bunker-spamming. Or just make it impossible to build bunkers adjacent to cities and other bunkers, that should reduce the spam significantly (and leaves the AI with more space for useful improvements... may help the AI players a bit as well).

Cheers, LT.
 
It's the same problem with forts in every other mod. The AI has no clue what to do with them.

A few steps to help, I think.

1. Block the AI from building them within a city's radius, ever. They should only be built outside of city radii so as not to waste workable tiles

2. make them less likely to be built between your own cities. They're far more useful placed at borders, since enemies aren't likely to appear within your territory, fungal blooms aside.

3. Make automated formers unable to build them, or add a gameoption to prevent automated formers from building them, same as the one which prevents them removing forest.
 
Yes, happens to me as well - not in every game, but the danger is the snowball effect it can create.

If necessary I could always remove the unity pod result. But is it really that overpowered? You're just as likely to get a free tech or a Material Supplies for instance. I know what I'd prefer.

I just wish they could buy special abilities.

That seems counter to the comment that they are too powerful.

2. I encountered Lal spamming/accumulating tranports in his capital...not sure, if he has a special plan with them and if my save is helpful to track the issue, if there is one at all...

In that save Lal is no longer building transports in his bases, so the reason for his crazy transport spam has been lost in the mists of time I'm afraid. In your later save Lal has build up a fleet of destroyer escorts for all those transports in UN HQ, so in a future war those transports might see some more action.

3. The current implementation of Submarines creates a difficulty in dealing with native life from the moment you get hands on Magnetic Acceleration

Hmm, I could also make aquaformers invisible under the Enclosed Biosphere civic.

Have you tried using the Sea Patrol command by the way? Don't know if it works for invisible units, but it's worth a testing. Tell me the results!

4. Governors sometimes seem to be very unwilling to grow cities which still have a lot of unused health/happiness

Nothing mysterious going on. To grow, the base would have to stop working that uranium mine. The AI just thinks that 2 minerals and 2 energy are more valuable than one nutrient in the base. In this particular case the AI is probably wrong to think so, but it would be rather complicated for little gain to make the AI smarter in this regard.

Keeper said:
1. Late built cities didn't get magtubes in the city tile. I *think* it stopped after discovering the magtube tech. Using a former to build a magtube in a city worked fine, but it doesn't seem intended to work that way.

I'll try to pay more attention to this while playing, but at least in the code I don't see anything matching with your thoughts.

2. Do the improved collateral promotions work? I didn't notice a difference.

They may not be powerful enough. For instance I've heard people say that it's always better in vanilla civ to choose a combat promotion rather than a barrage promotion, even for collateral damage. I'm always willing to try out suggestions for better collateral damage boosts for these promotions.

3. The Ruins icon is not used in the datalinks (still shows the deer).

No problem here. :dunno:

4. Guerilla 1 promotion should just be Guerilla (since there is no #2).
5. Guerilla 1 promotion is still available (and being taken by barbarian) Isles of the Deep.

I'll ask Lord Tirian if he wants to make a special ability and native promotion button for them. I'll change the current situation then.

6. Librarians generating Hackers doesn't seem intuitive to me. How about Hackers generating Operators or Codebreakers (both seem better than Great Hacker).

I'm not especially fond of the Hacker unit name, but I'd like to keep Librarian. Nice to have that reference to SMAC IMO.

7. Hyperions can upgrade to Cyborgs (oops?).
10. Walkers need a 9 strength or a bonus vs infantry (a Cyborg gets +50% vs infantry making a Cyborg stronger than it's upgrade the Walker).
11. InVitro units should never obsolete, since their concept and build mechanic are different than Mobile Infantry.

Hmm, I think I'll move the Cyborg to Biomachinery, and the Mobile Infantry to Orbital Engineering, and change their stats accordingly to address these issues.

I'll remove the ability to build InVitros with food. At some point I'll add the ability to draft the Genite->InVitro->Cyborg line, so you'll still be able to turn food into these units in a way.

8. Flamethrower bonuses seem mixed up (should be +all vs natives, +attack vs infantry).

I don't see why.

9. Flamethrowers can't take Empath Song (which is logical), but Hyperions start with it.

Yes, I don't want terraformers to feel the need to research Centauri Empathy to combat native life effectively. (Hmm, perhaps I should allow Plasma Shard for cruisers)
Biofuel is on the research path of both Terraformers and Hybrids. For Terraformers Empath Song just means another +25% psi attack, as they can't capture native life. For Hybrids this is a rather cool unit IMO as it already starts with inherent capturing ability.

12. Can choppers please upgrade to dropships? Seems logical to me, and gives a way to have an already promoted (and therefore defendable) transport later in the game.

I've also thought of that. Since Rotors are combat units however, Dropships should then also be able to attack. This may look weird as the Dropship graphic doesn't have weapons.

13. How much work would be involved in splitting the civilopedia screens for promotions and special abilities?

I can't remember now, but I investigated this matter back when I wanted to add a Planetfall Concepts pedia page. Since I then decided to recycle the BtS Concepts page rather than create a new page, I guess the process must be rather complicated or time-consuming. So while I too would like a seperate page for special abilities, I won't spend time on that anytime soon.

14. How about Launch Bay instead of Rails. Launch Rails make me think of a big railgun.

That's the idea. ;)

15. What enables Resonance Cluster?

If nothing is mentioned, no tech is required. That resource is renamed to Planet Pearls by the way in the next patch.

16. Missing native combat promotions Larval Mass (#1), Pre-boil (#4). Fiendish (#7) if you don't like one of those.

Larval Mass doesn't make sense as a promotion IMO. And I think it's silly to call a promotion or achievement Pre-Something. For instance you'll also never see me call a tech in Planetfall Pre-Sentient Algorithms.

Formers being consumed to build bunkers is really getting on my nerves,

Perhaps I could recycle the "Workers leave forests alone" option to disable bunker construction?
 
1. Block the AI from building them within a city's radius, ever. They should only be built outside of city radii so as not to waste workable tiles

I'll certainly review bunker building logic at some point. Probably the major reason why the AI builds bunkers in Planetfall though, is the +1 nutrient it gives. That's useful since farms require fresh water, and greenhouses can't be built on rainy. So building them within your city radius is a good idea. Bunkers are also good at defending against native life. Here too they're more useful when close to the base causing eco-damage.
 
I added the FfH code for defensive withdrawal a couple days ago, but I don't feel inspired for a name for the special ability that could give this benefit. Any suggestions? I'd allow the special abllity for Cavalry and Boats. I'd probably give the ability an equal amount of normal offensive withdrawal.
 
Hey, how about Librarian --> Thinker? Thinker is a little goofy to me too, but it is in SMAC.

And the problem with Isles taking guerilla is that (I think) there's no way for them to fight on rocky terrain.
 
I added the FfH code for defensive withdrawal a couple days ago, but I don't feel inspired for a name for the special ability that could give this benefit. Any suggestions? I'd allow the special abllity for Cavalry and Boats. I'd probably give the ability an equal amount of normal offensive withdrawal.

Countermeasures. You could use ECM (Electronic CounterMeasures) if you want something referenced in SMAC.

OT: Flanking has always bugged me, as it makes no sense. The ability to attack your opponents' flanks really has nothing to do with withdrawing. In fact, if your opponent rallies to your attack (which is basically what happens when you have to withdraw) then it should be even more difficult to retreat.
 
How do CounterMeasures lead to offensive and defensive withdrawal chance?

In any case, that name is already taken: I have plans to use the ECM name for another special ability: it would temporarily disable Artillery units from attacking, like (IIRC) the FfH Charm Person spell.
 
Countermeasures includes stuff like smoke.
 
I don't see why

Mind worms are a mass of small living organisms, so it makes sense that bullets and other normal weapons wouldn't be very effective. Fire on the other hand, is especially good at countering exactly this sort of enemy, since fire can flush out things in cover, and it envelops a wide area, charring things within, large or small.

But you don't like realism arguments, so from a gameplay perspective:
Psi combat already favours the attacker, quite substantially. And thusly, being on the defensive end of it is where you encounter the most problems. Flamethrower units are, as you've stated before, the anti native line. So why do they only get a bonus in the area that it's not really needed (attack) and not where it's needed most (defense).

Or, to put it succinctly, because they don't currently do the job they're supposed to do.
 
I looked "hard" at the new tech tree and there are a couple of techs that I don't really like, mainly the names and how they are linked, it all seems a bit random to me. So here's basically a big list of flavour quibbles, feel free to ignore them! :p

  • Magnetic Acceleration: Too similar to Mass Driver (which has the cooler name), both are things used to make things go fast and in a direct tech line. This really feels a bit strange. Proposed name: Superstring Theory or Field Mechanics - basically finding an unified field theory, allowing you to fully understand the principles of electromagnetism (and more). The mass driver would then be a way more industrialised version developed on that basis.
  • Antimatter: First of all, I don't like techs that have the name of a material, the knowledge of creating it is the actual tech and often has more applications. Proposed name: Quantum Manipulation (all the Quantum-techs of SMAC rolled together) or Matter Editation (directly from SMAC), allowing you to generate antimatter from normal matter as "perfect" energy storage (or weapon) by changing the fundamental properties of atoms/matter directly instead of random smashing, like in current accelerators.
  • Pressure Dome: Has the same name as a building, I dislike that (especially because it gives more than the building). Proposed Name: Silksteel Alloy - yeah, it's a material, but nostalgia makes this one pass! :lol: Fits perfectly for some material that is used for deep sea domes, vehicles etc. and mirrors the early appearance in SMAC and that people are doing real-world research on similar materials.
  • Silksteel Alloy: Because the name would go to the current pressure dome... Proposed Name: Supertensile Solids (the nostalgia entry, which really means Carbon Nanotubes) - that would also make sense leading to Nanites, which use the skills acquired here to manufacture them as well and explains the Nanominiaturization prereq. I'd go for Nanometallurgy here, but that's one tech too much starting with "Nano-". But I don't like that it's a material name again.
  • Kinematics: It's all about the sea... but somehow not really fitting. Since it's also part of the industrial techs (which got a bit underrepresented in the new tech tree), I propose as name Matter Compression or Hyperpressurization (which is long, but I imagine that matter compression might sound too generic for you) - sounds like a slightly generic industrial process that helps with generating new stuff, adapting to the sea and becomes a prerequisite for other industrial techs.
  • Degenerate Neutronium: This is a strange name, neutron stars are made of degenerate matter - it's the so-called degeneracy pressure that keeps it from collapsing into a black hole! Since it's derived from the physics tree as well, I'd propose calling it Matter Transmission and I'd also make it an industrial tech. With instantly transmitted matter, you can build things faster, don't have to care about transport etc., allowing new possibilities of construction, very industrial, I think. Matter Transmission also makes sense for the follow-up techs.
  • Stable Neutronium: Again, a material name... what about (N-)Space Compression, again a SMAX name (I'd also drop the rather nonsensical "N-") and I'd make it an industrial tech - now you can manufacture space! And have things that are bigger on the inside - the leviathan would be a bit of a TARDIS then... small, lightweight and fast, but inside an entire army and weapon arsenal could fit in.

That would also mean that a couple of spec abs would need to be shuffled around - the nanometal armour would fit (effect-wise) the silk steel alloy better anyway, whereas self-repairing (the current silksteel armour) sounds more like some sort of nanometal.

Again... all of this are flavour quibbles, feel free to disregard them or to shoot them down! (because that way, I at least get to hear the reasons for the current names, which often helps)

Cheers, LT.
 
I added the FfH code for defensive withdrawal a couple days ago, but I don't feel inspired for a name for the special ability that could give this benefit. Any suggestions? I'd allow the special abllity for Cavalry and Boats. I'd probably give the ability an equal amount of normal offensive withdrawal.

"Strategic Retreat"? ;)

Fallback?

Regroup?
 
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