v153 subs

[Zaldron]

It looks like subs can get indirect fire in v153. They can't hit land targets can they? Does indirect fire have any use for a sub?

 

[Jaybe]

Subs have always been able to shoot 'through' land, from vanilla.

Personally, I think NO units should have 'see invisible' subs and subs should either (1) have their range reduced to 2, or (2) have range of 1 and be able to move 1 hex AFTER firing.

 

[Thalassicus]

Thanks for pointing this out; subs should not have Indirect Fire.

I think NO units should have 'see invisible' subs

I don't think this is possible with our current modding tools... even land units can see subs.

This is why I designed subs into a rock-paper-scissors counter system instead of relying on their invisibility. Subs beat capital ships, capital ships beat light ships, and light ships beat subs.

 

[Jaybe]

Sorry Thal, I mispoke. When I said "NO units should have 'see invisible' subs" I was referring to the promotion PROMOTION_SEE_INVISIBLE_SUBMARINE.

Yes, any unit ADJACENT to an invisible unit (such as a sub or anything else you make invisible) can see it, and that is appropriate.
Mentos, in his Unity Mod, had anti-aircraft & anti-tank units invisible. You had to get up close & personal in order to spot or attack them.

 

[Zaldron]

Sorry Thal, I mispoke. When I said "NO units should have 'see invisible' subs" I was referring to the promotion PROMOTION_SEE_INVISIBLE_SUBMARINE.

Yes, any unit ADJACENT to an invisible unit (such as a sub or anything else you make invisible) can see it, and that is appropriate.
Mentos, in his Unity Mod, had anti-aircraft & anti-tank units invisible. You had to get up close & personal in order to spot or attack them.

So subs beat all other ship types, capital ships beat light ships and cities, and light ships have no purpose other than being resourceless?

 

[Jaybe]

Light ships don't need resources, they cost much less maintenance (not to mention production costs), are generally faster and useful for screening and as escorts, and destroyers have that anti-sub combat bonus.

I don't foresee a capital/light ship ratio of greater than 1:1 at this point. Of course previously it was rare that I would build more than 1 or 2 non-carrier capital ships.

Carriers contain their integral escort obviously, as strong as they are.

 

[Thalassicus]

Light ships also have a bigger sight range than capital ships and submarines. They're useful for scouting. I typically build naval task forces of 2 destroyers, 2 submarines, 4 battleships, and 1 carrier with planes. In G&K my pre-industrial task forces will include 2 light, 2 melee, and 4 capital ships.