V2 - Hello BtS

I tend to agree more with Lucky on this one. I like hurting our opponents a lil bit before we sue for peace. Ill definatly grab the Holy City. On the note of feudalism from incas, im thinking that ragnar and the incans are good friends and soon enough ragnar might have it. this is my got it/playing
 
Turn 0- MM the capital. I net us +3 gpt and keep our production up. The situation looks doable, not great, but doable.

IBT- Catapult hurts our units near holy city, we kill the catapult. The Kong Miao is built in far away land. 3 cities finish their builds, they build catapults now.

Turn 1- Kill a Viking chariot. Lots of troop movement.

IBT- Viking sword kills our axe in the north. Another catapult from Incans falls while bombarding us.

Turn 2- The situation to the north is pretty serious. I decide that I have to make a move fast in the south to concentrate our efforts up north. I take the Holy City and get 159g at the cost of 2 axes and a sword. I sue for peace getting Monarchy, 1 gpt, 20 g, and have the Incans adopt barbarism to help push them back farther. I think now that we have one front we’ll do much better. Great General born, sending him to capital to build MA.

IBT- Sword kills spearman on the Iron.

Turn 3- Just sending troops up to the north.

IBT- Pillaging on our road to iron and a hill near capital.

Turn 4- With Ragnar knocking on our capital’s door and the troops on their way, I decide to move 2 archers out of the capital onto the gems as bait to hopefully have him send units to their death on it.

IBT- Lose one archer, kill one chariot. We are the wealthiest civ in the world.

Turn 5- You guys, I know we didn’t want to do this, but I was just forced into making peace with Ragnar. I got straight up peace from him because he had a force of 12 swords and 4 catapults that were 2 turns away from our capital, and our south forces would never had made in time to help defend. We have 10 turns of full peace right now, so I’m going to continue to build an army so we can hit on our own terms 10 turns from now.

IBT- Hari Court->Catapult.

Turn 6- A worry free turn. A botched wedding between Incan and Mayan causes tensions.

IBT- Nothing

Turn 7- Sending things towards capital…

IBT- Nothing

Turn 8- Getting workers to get Iron online.

IBT- Hari Cat->Cat.

Turn 9- Nothing…

IBT- MP finishes its production. Set it to Monument for culture.

Turn 10- A lot of repositioning of troops.

Ok. I know this didn’t go how we wanted it. We have monarchy and forced peace for a few more turns. I am completely confident that the Incans will not attack us. They are just too weak and we took most of their resources IIRC. Id say that when the forced peace with Ragnar is up, we declare right away, since itll be on our terms. We can easily take that city north of the capital and the city in the grey after that. Our armies are mostly sitting in the capital or en route. Some defenders on our iron. Science is crawling its way back up. Its at 30%. I know these turns probably were near worst possible scenario, but I did what I felt was right with getting that peace. In the long run, I think it’ll help us out, gives us regrouping time. No pictures, the thing is screwing up for me again, sorry.

The Save
 
Nice getting this SG moving again, sorry to have been out for a bit... been extreemly busy... Seems like having that stack of swords on the front door, knocking getting even peace is a good thing :)

I am going to have to get a look at the save... but it looks like we are not really focussing our efforts, building courts while at war?? :crazyeye:
War = Units!

I dont know about declaring war on Ragnar right now, course we may not want him to get those berzerkers... tho they are nothing special in the hands of the AI. We may be better off getting our econ going, switching to OR (if we arent allready there) get some courts and libs where needed as well as other infra we need, like ducts, markets, temples, etc.

Observations:
- we have 5 workers to 8 cities :( we are low on workers ergo we are working unimproved tiles, we need workers build or captured I dont care but we need more workers.
- The capitol is working a forrest and the lake when it can work 2 riverside mines -2 food +5 hammers, while at the happy cap (next turn) this is a great trade off
- Nagara is going to be a research center, extreemly low on hammers (unless later in UniSuf) WHY???? Are we building a barracks there? Lib + Temples + Monastaries are going to be hard enough to build without the waste of a barracks there
- Hari is unhappy :whipped: it ! Temple is allways nice to whip (after 1 turn of production) or a duct is nice to for the +1 food
Also Hari has a cottage? We dont have enough food to work those hills, farms folks we need farms.
- Cuzco a library ?? Why (ok culture probably) but we are NEVER going to overcome the wonder culture of the Inca untill we kill them outright.
Cuzco has a total of 0.6 beakers right now addint the library will certainly bring .2 extra beakers. Cuzco is a production beast, with some farms and biology we may actually be able to work all those hills. The library is never going to help anything. I think Courthouse, barracks, Units and a wonder or two maybe later on.
- Tiwanaku is the same.

A courthouse in both Machu, Tiwanaku and Cuzco will save us 3 gpt per city where the library will do near nothing :( The total of 9 gpt is allmost good enough for 10% on the slider :) It is details like this that we need to focus on if we are going to get this game on the road !

CS will take 4 turns at 100%, running -90 gpt I suggest going to 0 science untill we reach 400 gold then running 4 turns of 100% Building 400 gold will take approx 40 turns (not counting war gains) hopefully by then we can have a library in some cities where they matter (nagara for example) to bring in some extra beakers.

We need to scout Pacal before he gets intrested in our land, perhaps it is worth it to grab some browny points with pacal and the :) to switch to Buddism?

Well beeing in police state sure doesnt help the treasury :(, offcourse we are now in warmode and commited to it I guess so lets take out ragnar ASAP. Units all over the place (except maybe Nagara) and go for it, we are allready at 17 gpt upkeep for units.... so maybe cue up some of those so we can finish them in 1 turn in the end when we need them to save some GPT. As soon as we are confident that Ragnar is as good as dead (i.e. we have mostly enough units) switch to HR (if WW allows) and OR start getting those courts up ASAP.

On a side note, I would have razed Tiwanaku dispite it beeing home to the great wall. It is just missing the fish and extreemly low on food...

P.S. Sorry if above seems over critical or something. I dont mean to frown on any decisions made on the battle field or put down anyone in any way. Just trying to make constructive criticism.

P.P.S. I hope we are not chopping jungle at Nagara when we have open grasslands that can be cottaged there?? The banana for the +food Great! But the other jungle? Leave it be untill we have no more open (riverside?) grasslands to cottage. Prior to cottaging tho, get the Silk up and running, good GPT and +:) for all our cities. way better than any cottage we can build
 
Good job, ScubaSteve! :goodjob: Very good decisions on the battlefield, IMO.

I Think I am up, so this is my got it. Don`t have a lot of time now, but will check the save and post some thoughts later. I will also read namliaM`s post more carefully before planing my turnset.
 
@Nam- I let the Court finish to help with the :( faces. I didn't want the WW to make it worse. Its still there, but not as bad as before.
 
How do courts help with the WW? And whats more we are at peace right now, so WW = 0... it will return when/if we go to war again... but I dont think we have any/much WW when it comes to Ragnar IIRC we were mostly on the defensive....

WW stacks when you fight on foreign soil in particular when
- losing units (i.e. sacrifice catapults)
- capturing units (workers)
- Capturing/razing cities.
 
Jails, Mount rushmore and Policestate help with WW. As offcourse do temples, markets and the culture slider (tho differently by adding :) instead of removing :mad: )

WW gets bad when on the offensive like I said... so beeing in police state when we start the war with Ragnar is not a bad idea... but lets focus and use the +% on building units to the max for now... we are commited to war with allready 17 gpt in upkeep for units... Lets trade the unit cost for city cost and then (re-)build our empire.
 
well, we will make some money from our capture of cities. I believe were sitting at somewhere between 125-175g just from capturing the holy city
 
Lots of family stuff this weekend, but at least we had some time to discuss. So it all seems clear: Keep building troops and declare on Ragnar. Sounds good to me. I will try to build (or capture :evil:) some workers as well. But I have a pressing matter to pose to you all: farm over the cottages in both Angkor cities. Aside from namliaM no one said anything about this, I have the game again and those cottages are still there, maturing, but they have no future (at least until Biology, but that`s too long). We never work the silk tile in Angkor Wat because we don`t have enough food, the city is size 3 and not because we whip it too much. Please give your imput on this, because I don`t want to do anything against the team`s opinion, but IMO we already wasted a lot of time.
 
Yes, namliaM, you were the only one who issued an opinion about the matter, I know you agree with me on this. But I don`t know about the rest of the team, and I don`t feel comfortable to undo other people`s work unless we have some consensus.

Oh, and time = turns in my last post.
 
Go ahead, if it cant be worked then its not worth having, once our food situation gets better, we can go back and redo the work. This is more crucial for food anyways
 
We got two similar messages, on different turns, saying some ex-incan cities want to join the Incan Empire, and that Huayna Capac would be very happy if we allow it. Sure, after all the blood and sweat to capture, let’s just give the cities back. :crazyeye:

Our population reaches one million.

The Vikings capture the barb city north of Nagana.

Pacal asks us to adopt Hereditary Rule. Hummm…. We do have happiness issues, but the anarchy won’t be welcome now… and we still have troops to build under Police State. And since Pacal is running away on the tech race, and also keeps stealing tiles from Hari, I guess we will need to war him soon. So I refuse. And he droped to cautious:

Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg


We catch a spy in Thom.

One turn before our peace treaty with Ragnar expires, I move the troops. There are some workers around, I wonder if the AI will be smart enough to protect them or move them away.

Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg


Someone gets a Great Artist. I guess Music has been discovered.

Next turn I try to declare war on Ragnar but can’t. Curiously, I have to go to the deals screen and cancel the peace treaty by hand:

Civ4ScreenShot0028.jpg


And then I am able to declare! Now I don’t know if the AI didn’t protect the workers because it thought I could only declare next turn or because it is just stupid. We capture 2 workers, then capture and raze the city near our iron:

Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg


One or two turns later I check and see Ragnar got Horseback Riding, so I queue some more spears. One more turn and he also gets Metal Casting. I hope we can extort those soon. :evil:

The Parthenon is built.

We notice Pacal has 6gpt to spare, so we send him bananas:

Civ4ScreenShot0034.jpg


We approach the Viking copper city, and it is on the copper! I think this is an awful location, because it loses a lot of production. So I change my mind about keeping the city, I suggest we raze it and resettle 1E of it’s current location. Although there is a lot of troops here, we can see the city is not that well defended.

Civ4ScreenShot0036.jpg


Since I would capture it during my last turn, I did’t do it, letting the turn unfinished to allow for some team discussion (there is only one defender left).
We lost one cat in the first city, three cats and a sword (about 70% odds :mad:, a well promoted one). The power graph shows Ragnar’s army is already hurt:

Civ4ScreenShot0045.jpg


HC vassals to Pacal, which makes our next war even clearer…
I began the process of converting cottages to farm in the Angkor cities. Angkor Wat now is able to work the horses and the silk simultaneously while still growing. I started a farm outside its BFC to chain irrigate another grassland there. The cottage left there can probably be kept if we farm the other grassland tiles. I also started a farm in Thom, and the other cottage is already a town, but I don’t see a reasonable way to keep it.

Just when I had spent our pillage money to finish CS this opportunity came in:

Civ4ScreenShot0042.jpg


We had to choose the other alternative, which gave us 89 beakers towards Paper (I selected paper in the way to Liberalism, and also good trade bait). We have this trade available with Pacal:

Civ4ScreenShot0044.jpg


I suggest we take it. We can se Pacal’s research now. He is 2 turns from Drama IIRC.

I need to apologize for an awful mistake I made in Hari: I lost one population for nothing. I had whipped a worker for 2 pop but the food was already enough to increase the population, so we got one unhappy anyway and I decided to let it starve a bit and add some GS points, intending to set it to grow again before losing population. But I got distracted with the war and missed the right turn, sorry.

Save attached.
 
OK I am up, got it...

I to dont like trading with the tech leader... Do we need Feud?

I cannot take it right now... I will have a look at the save later (tomorrow, sorry guys) and get some barrings... If I feel I have worries/questions I will post those first.
 
Maybe we can build a fast unit to take a trip through Mayas land to find other trading partners and lower tech costs.
 
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