Lucky1972
Prince
Oh, and yes, as per the first post, we are playing 10 turns turnsets now. (Scuba just got carried away... 
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V2 - Hello BtS
- Thread starter vovan
- Start date
namliaM
Deity
You have my blessing to declare war, like I said... If 3 of them spears were axemen I would have done it anyway.... Spears are good (enough) for defence but they arent that great on offence.
One thing I am worried about are archers with Culture defence on a hill inside a city... It is ugly !
IIRC (dont have the game at the moment) his 4 cities are:
1 city is on a hill with some (40? or 20?) defence (the wheat city near us).
1 city (capitol and) has + 60% culture defense
1 city (holy one) is on a hill and has 60% culture
1 city Cow/Rice flat lands with low culture
I think by the way we should RAZE both those cities of HC that are near us.
His wheat city misses the one Silk to pick up 2 dessert tiles.
His cow/rice city picks up 2 desserts and a peak in favour of 2 grasslands and 1 overlap with our excisting city.
We do need 2 settlers ready to go if we do raze the Cow/Rice city, cause Pacal will be looking to grab it if we raze it.
Also take note we dont have Catapults but HC does... But offcourse you are right when you say "AI still are not the best warmongers" <== Hereby denoted as Understatement of the week.
One thing I am worried about are archers with Culture defence on a hill inside a city... It is ugly !
IIRC (dont have the game at the moment) his 4 cities are:
1 city is on a hill with some (40? or 20?) defence (the wheat city near us).
1 city (capitol and) has + 60% culture defense
1 city (holy one) is on a hill and has 60% culture
1 city Cow/Rice flat lands with low culture
I think by the way we should RAZE both those cities of HC that are near us.
His wheat city misses the one Silk to pick up 2 dessert tiles.
His cow/rice city picks up 2 desserts and a peak in favour of 2 grasslands and 1 overlap with our excisting city.
We do need 2 settlers ready to go if we do raze the Cow/Rice city, cause Pacal will be looking to grab it if we raze it.
Also take note we dont have Catapults but HC does... But offcourse you are right when you say "AI still are not the best warmongers" <== Hereby denoted as Understatement of the week.
I too vote for war sooner rather than later. Actually a couple spearmen are nice for defense but we do need mostly axes. Where is the iron exactly? I didn't see it in the picture, but can we hook it up soon and have swords building while we are at war?
I agree the unit maintenance is a key problem here. I actually queued up a spearman then an axe in that copper city for the specific reason NOT to have maintenance costs yet, then to pop them out together later.
I agree the unit maintenance is a key problem here. I actually queued up a spearman then an axe in that copper city for the specific reason NOT to have maintenance costs yet, then to pop them out together later.
ScubaSteve
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2007
- Messages
- 47
sorry about 15, i thought we were actually playing 15 turns of peace and 10 turns in war. My bad.
Lucky1972
Prince
Thanks for the imput, all. I had a very long work day yesterday and couldn`t play, I will get to it tonight (in about 8h or so).
ScubaSteve
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2007
- Messages
- 47
@LLamaCat - I believe the Iron is two tiles north and one tile west of our capital, IIRC. In my turnset I already sent a worker to it, it will be there between 2-4 turns.
Lucky1972
Prince
Huayna Capac is dead. He may not know it yet, but he is dead.
But before we go through the war details, I would like to make a clearer point for farms instead of cottages in our Angkor cities and make some notes on micromanagement.
First, lets keep in mind the 25% bonus on workers apply to hammers, not food.
So instead of this:
It`s better to do this:
Notice the extra commerce, which in this case cuts down one turn of research.
Next, lets analyze Angkor Thom (I changed some tiles to make the point clearer):
I really don`t see the point of the cottages here. There are 3 plain hills river mines, 4h1c. We need 6 excess food to work them all without starving, and we only have 4 excess food. We should farm everything here, including the grass forest (as soon as we have Civil Service). I know it`s painful to farm over hamlets or villages, but please consider it carefully.
Again I changed the tiles on Angkor Wat to make my point:
The only way to work the two resource tiles here is to stagnate the city. Again, we should farm everything we can here.
Now, on with the war preliminaries. I take the warrior we have near Machu Pichu and check HC`s iron mine:
It is not a mine, it is a crappy city we must raze. We move the troops and declare on turn 2:
We invade, and are greeted by a new, state-of-the-art Incan Catpult:
The colateral is annoying, but I decide not to stop for healing and attack asap. Here is the army:
Meanwhile, we get to the settling site number 7. Our escorting archer had half health, so I sent an axeman to help fogbust a little, and always moved the archer first, and the settler only moved when it was safe. Barbs settled a city nearby:
I am ok with cottaging this one, although it could also be a great GP farm
Someone builds the Great LightHouse.
On turn 4 we capture Machu Pichu:
I finally decided to keep it. It has high food and production, and will be a great base for the war. Could not see a good way to have a settler here in time.
They had 2 archers and an axe, and the last turn they managed to get a chariot there too, so it was a hard fight. I suicided 3 spears that died honorably making good damage to the axe and 2 archers. Then I went on with the chariots and axes (lost a chariot IIRC).
The holy city has a 2 archers defense:
I was surprised to see the horses unguarded, so I sent this pair of spears to die pillaging them. They succeeded (and died).
To be continued...
But before we go through the war details, I would like to make a clearer point for farms instead of cottages in our Angkor cities and make some notes on micromanagement.
First, lets keep in mind the 25% bonus on workers apply to hammers, not food.
So instead of this:
It`s better to do this:
Notice the extra commerce, which in this case cuts down one turn of research.
Next, lets analyze Angkor Thom (I changed some tiles to make the point clearer):
I really don`t see the point of the cottages here. There are 3 plain hills river mines, 4h1c. We need 6 excess food to work them all without starving, and we only have 4 excess food. We should farm everything here, including the grass forest (as soon as we have Civil Service). I know it`s painful to farm over hamlets or villages, but please consider it carefully.
Again I changed the tiles on Angkor Wat to make my point:
The only way to work the two resource tiles here is to stagnate the city. Again, we should farm everything we can here.
Now, on with the war preliminaries. I take the warrior we have near Machu Pichu and check HC`s iron mine:
It is not a mine, it is a crappy city we must raze. We move the troops and declare on turn 2:
We invade, and are greeted by a new, state-of-the-art Incan Catpult:
The colateral is annoying, but I decide not to stop for healing and attack asap. Here is the army:
Meanwhile, we get to the settling site number 7. Our escorting archer had half health, so I sent an axeman to help fogbust a little, and always moved the archer first, and the settler only moved when it was safe. Barbs settled a city nearby:
I am ok with cottaging this one, although it could also be a great GP farm
Someone builds the Great LightHouse.
On turn 4 we capture Machu Pichu:
I finally decided to keep it. It has high food and production, and will be a great base for the war. Could not see a good way to have a settler here in time.
They had 2 archers and an axe, and the last turn they managed to get a chariot there too, so it was a hard fight. I suicided 3 spears that died honorably making good damage to the axe and 2 archers. Then I went on with the chariots and axes (lost a chariot IIRC).
The holy city has a 2 archers defense:
I was surprised to see the horses unguarded, so I sent this pair of spears to die pillaging them. They succeeded (and died).
To be continued...
Lucky1972
Prince
Another note on micromanagement: I whipped the worker in Hari exactly as namliam said, here is the mechanics:
Each pop is 30 hammers, plus our bonus is 37.5 for the worker, so to whip the worker for 2 pop there must be less more than 37.5 left to build. The cost is 60 hammers, so I put less than 23 hammers in it (19 actually) and next turn I whip for 2 pop, getting 60 hammers. This is 75 with the bonus, and 41 goes to finish the worker, overflow is 34, minus the bonus (which is only for the worker) its 27 hammers. Adding the hammers the city is producing each turn, we get an axeman in one turn and still 17 overflow we put into a chariot:
Amazing conversion of food into hammers! Let`s do it again soon!
Iron city gets reinforcements just before we hit it. I dont like the odds, but we can just cut the roads to keep HC from building axes or swords in all other cities.
So I move a warrior to see the Incan capital, and it is guarded only by a sword and an archer! So I move the stack towards it, while reinforcements start to come from our main cities.
Machu Pichu is on. Its already quite productive:
Ragnar has a small stack closer to our borders. I think it is for the barb city, but keep watching it.
On the last turn we kill a catapult near our borders and get in position to attack HC capital:
And the GS comes and builds the academy. Look at the research in our cities:
Now you can choose to keep hiring the 2 scientists or grow faster to size 8. I would keep the scientists. Capital is amazing with the calendar resources:
I played exactly 10 turns. For some reason I got the game at turn 116.
Sorry if I forgot something but I need to sleep now. Save attached.
Each pop is 30 hammers, plus our bonus is 37.5 for the worker, so to whip the worker for 2 pop there must be less more than 37.5 left to build. The cost is 60 hammers, so I put less than 23 hammers in it (19 actually) and next turn I whip for 2 pop, getting 60 hammers. This is 75 with the bonus, and 41 goes to finish the worker, overflow is 34, minus the bonus (which is only for the worker) its 27 hammers. Adding the hammers the city is producing each turn, we get an axeman in one turn and still 17 overflow we put into a chariot:
Amazing conversion of food into hammers! Let`s do it again soon!
Iron city gets reinforcements just before we hit it. I dont like the odds, but we can just cut the roads to keep HC from building axes or swords in all other cities.
So I move a warrior to see the Incan capital, and it is guarded only by a sword and an archer! So I move the stack towards it, while reinforcements start to come from our main cities.
Machu Pichu is on. Its already quite productive:
Ragnar has a small stack closer to our borders. I think it is for the barb city, but keep watching it.
On the last turn we kill a catapult near our borders and get in position to attack HC capital:
And the GS comes and builds the academy. Look at the research in our cities:
Now you can choose to keep hiring the 2 scientists or grow faster to size 8. I would keep the scientists. Capital is amazing with the calendar resources:
I played exactly 10 turns. For some reason I got the game at turn 116.
Sorry if I forgot something but I need to sleep now. Save attached.
Lucky1972
Prince
Oh, we got Construction, the money from the capture of Machu Pichu helped a lot. I swiched all builds to cats. Research set to Currency (we need to fix the economy soon).
namliaM
Deity
I got it, will play tomorrow
- Storm the Mids/Walls capitol of HC
- Hope to god Ragnar doesnt do anything funy
Research:
Currency looks solid, CoL is an option too .... In particular Cusco is going to need a courthouse as well as that holy city
Of hand questions:
- Did you work the gems at the capitol? Having a scientist over the mine is not a good idea IMHO
- Machu pinchu, I really would have razed it, bad location.... we have to defend it (costing units for offence) and it wont bring anything to the table at the moment... And no one is in a hury to grab it....
- Why bring warriors into foreign territory?? They do nothing on offence, will lose on Defence and just generaly cost upkeep to keep around... leave them at home ....
- Storm the Mids/Walls capitol of HC
- Hope to god Ragnar doesnt do anything funy
Research:
Currency looks solid, CoL is an option too .... In particular Cusco is going to need a courthouse as well as that holy city
Of hand questions:
- Did you work the gems at the capitol? Having a scientist over the mine is not a good idea IMHO
- Machu pinchu, I really would have razed it, bad location.... we have to defend it (costing units for offence) and it wont bring anything to the table at the moment... And no one is in a hury to grab it....
- Why bring warriors into foreign territory?? They do nothing on offence, will lose on Defence and just generaly cost upkeep to keep around... leave them at home ....
Lucky1972
Prince
the warriors were to absorb colateral from the pults, but you are probably right. The gems are better if you don`t consider GPP. If you do, maybe the scientist is better, specially if we are going to build the academy. Just my opinion anyway. I value early GSs a lot, and the team seemed to agree with the goal I set for my turnset.
Yeah, I know you would not like Machu Pichu, but since no one else in the team said anything about that I had to make the decision on the field. I hope it is not too bad a mistake, but if it is, I apologize to you all.
BTW, please keep commenting on my play, it is a great way for me to improve!
Yeah, I know you would not like Machu Pichu, but since no one else in the team said anything about that I had to make the decision on the field. I hope it is not too bad a mistake, but if it is, I apologize to you all.
BTW, please keep commenting on my play, it is a great way for me to improve!
huh? anyway, this kind of stuff really loses me so I hope you guys don't expect me to be whipping with these kinds of precise calculations. I could read this sentence 100 times and even if you didn't have the big typo (less more) I would still be lost.
play on, good job!
Lucky1972
Prince
its left instead of less, thanks for pointing that out. Don`t have time now but will try to make the sentence clearer later.
ScubaSteve
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2007
- Messages
- 47
Im looking forward to this war, and the fact that we have some talented people on the MM front. I know im no where near where I want to be in that department, I do what I can. Glad I joined this, I think I'll get alot of help just from this SG. 
namliaM
Deity
The way I would have MM-ed our capitol...
- Grow to max asap while working the gems
- run 2 scientists
- Meanwhile research Construction
- after construction (which just happenes to be the same time the GS now pops) KILL research
We cannot sustain 100% anyway...
- Now... wait for the GS to pop and build the Acadamy, run 100% science.
The way I see it no research is lost, except we pick up extra commerce due to the gems. The one gems tile brings as much commerce as the 2 scientists put together, I think sacrificing the gems is a big deal
I am not even counting the food and hammers.
Same goes for the Dye btw...
AFTER my set, I will try and go back and try this strat ... see what it brings to the game (or offcourse takes away)
- Grow to max asap while working the gems
- run 2 scientists
- Meanwhile research Construction
- after construction (which just happenes to be the same time the GS now pops) KILL research
We cannot sustain 100% anyway...
- Now... wait for the GS to pop and build the Acadamy, run 100% science.
The way I see it no research is lost, except we pick up extra commerce due to the gems. The one gems tile brings as much commerce as the 2 scientists put together, I think sacrificing the gems is a big deal
I am not even counting the food and hammers.Same goes for the Dye btw...
AFTER my set, I will try and go back and try this strat ... see what it brings to the game (or offcourse takes away)
Lucky1972
Prince
As I said, you may be right, but it is just too difficult to mesure the importance of GPP. In my first civ4 games I generated GP very slowly, then I learned how important they are, especially early on (short term against long term. Short term it is almost always better to work tiles rather then specialists unless you have representantion or something).
I didn`t mention it in my report, but I did kill research after construction, as per your suggestion, to wait for the Academy, very good call.
I didn`t mention it in my report, but I did kill research after construction, as per your suggestion, to wait for the Academy, very good call.
namliaM
Deity
I am getting hung up at work and am not going to be able to get this till the weekend, give me a swap or skip please....
I'm here
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