v41 Design Cycle Team plans

[Thunderbrd]

@The Team: Post what you have on the immediate plate that you're hoping to get done for v41 so we can potentially work to support each other along the way.

For me, I'm currently involved in detailing an intensive unit review. It is underway now and visible here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...wMhsSyc2tnWfHO9r7MGb9qTxg/edit#gid=1224776138

Currently it's going through and placing all units according to where they are unlocked on the tech tree and you can see how some tracking, up until modern anyhow, is given on most important unit details so I can plan out changes for the sake of balance. Some new units are planned there and I've been collecting the art needed for them and it is my hope that by v41's release, the majority of this plan can be implemented.

I'm trying to do this in a streamlined fashion for now before giving it all much deeper in depth review. This is only of the most critical details at the moment. For those used to the way I usually review things, you might find this is rather crude but I've had more limited time of late so I'm doing it in a bit of a streamlined manner compared to my usual approach - but that's not where I'll stop... it will eventually get deeper.

There are a few things that have emerged as really super important to address soon. There are 2 int tags I need to add and their dynamics into play as well as an entire class to categorize unitcombats by so that certain unitcombatcategories can behave differently in regards to XP and Combat modifier applications against a unit. I just spoke to Bill today about how to best approach that part of the project and have a pretty good idea of what I need to do there.

Ultimately this is all a big part of making sure that the foundation of the game we have is on rock solid balanced design that can be further developed. I need to do this so as to prepare for the inclusion of the remainder of the combat mod stuff and for preparing for future AI designs and units to flesh out futuristic eras. A lot of this sets the stage for getting in and completing the Naval review implementation as well.

So that's MY focus since I can relax a little on some of the deeper complexities in the coding since we have a much more qualified team in that regard than just myself. I feel I should be putting what I'm good at to the most use and application here so we can really start making headway.

Much of this is my own way of preparing for Multimaps and Nomadic Starts, both projects that are clearly alive in the minds of our design team as we've had them both under some discussion of late and the paths to them are being cleared through the jungle by other cleanup tasks that have been taking place.

I'm heavily optimistic about what we can achieve still... the vision for the mod as a whole is really starting to come alive!

 

[Osk21]

Where would I find a current list of team members so that I may thank them all for their hard work and innovation? Anyway, thanks to StrategyOnly and all the gang for the good fun, which is what it's all about!

 

[MattCA]

No upcoming design plans thread for the last couple versions. These threads always make a good read even if it's more of a wishlist then goals. I've got more ideas then time and I'm sure everyone else is the same but id like to see what people are thinkin.

 

[darkedone02]

Will there be more tech that require a building similar to waterproof concrete?

I've also recently discuss about the workings in Auto-Promote and how it mostly utilizes the AI, not the human player. So I was wondering would there be a re-work/overhaul/redesign where the auto-promote be more understanding on the player? Give different auto-promotes depending on how you want to build said unit? It how the auto-promote gives me armed guard, that prevents you from attacking but strengths your defense, such abilities should be excluded on auto-promote and should put into a different auto-promote that aims at units to be defensive, not for someone who seeks for offensive or siege designed units.

 

[billw2015]

AI ability and performance for me.
Some ideas for focusing on:
- AI co-operation: recognizing threatening expansionists and acting against them together
- AI unit coordination: offensive and defensive stack use (e.g. don't send individual units to their obvious doom vs a stack)
- AI handling of revolutions mod
- refactoring AI evaluation functions into a more generalized and extensible architecture

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Will there be more tech that require a building similar to waterproof concrete?

The idea behind Waterproof Concrete was experimental and I think it works OK. It would work better on a mod that does not have gateway techs like C2C has. I also have the code for varying tech costs based on what resources you have, for example having access to both tin and/or copper ores would reduce the cost of learning the Bronze Working tech.

It is a pity we can't do something like

You must study Bronze Working if no one you are in contact with has Iron Working. If they do then you can skip it and learn Iron Working but still need to study Bronze Working later if you want those units and buildings. It is more historically accurate.​

 

[billw2015]

You must study Bronze Working if no one you are in contact with has Iron Working. If they do then you can skip it and learn Iron Working but still need to study Bronze Working later if you want those units and buildings. It is more historically accurate.

Wouldn't this be the case for any tech that obsoletes a previous tech? e.g Matchlock and flintlock.
Perhaps reviewing/improving tech diffusion would work here. My intuition is that any dependencies like this could be solved by splitting out the common part of the technology (in this case generic Metal Working technologies, of which bronze working requires fewer), and removing the dependency between them. This makes Bronze Working the preferred tech to go for because you need a bunch more pre-cursor techs to get to Iron Working. However if your neighbour has Iron Working you can progress to it quickly due to strong tech diffusion effects.

 

[darkedone02]

The idea behind Waterproof Concrete was experimental and I think it works OK. It would work better on a mod that does not have gateway techs like C2C has. I also have the code for varying tech costs based on what resources you have, for example having access to both tin and/or copper ores would reduce the cost of learning the Bronze Working tech.

It is a pity we can't do something like

You must study Bronze Working if no one you are in contact with has Iron Working. If they do then you can skip it and learn Iron Working but still need to study Bronze Working later if you want those units and buildings. It is more historically accurate.​

My original thought was something of a race with the whole locked resources, make it feel like a race on tech... The first empire to research bronze weaponry, iron weaponry, gunpowered, etc get a unique trait for all of their units to make superior versions of that metal type, the rest of the empire who didn't win can research it normally but won't get the special trait that comes with the "world first" bonus.

For example... I was the first empire to research Bronze Weaponry, so therefore, all units that uses bronze gain a +1 Strength bonus. Rest of the world won't get that bonus because we was the first who spread the world on how to make bronze weapons but we kept the most powerful reserved for our military officers and commanders.

It's quite an interesting idea when I was playing the latest Destiny 2 expansion called Shadowkeep, and they wanted to set something unique for players to try to race to becoming world first to beat the latest raid. The reward for the winners are the pinnacle weapons, and allow people to have access to the season of the undying content.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Continue to rebalance and refine Civics. Late Era is still unproven ground. And mid game is still a WIP as well. Maybe this cycle I will get some good mid to late game test play throughs that will show their good and bad attributes.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Wouldn't this be the case for any tech that obsoletes a previous tech? e.g Matchlock and flintlock.
Perhaps reviewing/improving tech diffusion would work here. My intuition is that any dependencies like this could be solved by splitting out the common part of the technology (in this case generic Metal Working technologies, of which bronze working requires fewer), and removing the dependency between them. This makes Bronze Working the preferred tech to go for because you need a bunch more pre-cursor techs to get to Iron Working. However if your neighbour has Iron Working you can progress to it quickly due to strong tech diffusion effects.

I have seen a mod where there is a tech "swordsmen" which enables all the various types of swordsmen (stone bladesmen, bronze swordsmen, iron swordsmen, khopesh swordsmen etc.) in the game but the more advanced swordsmen require resources which only become available at later techs in different branches of the tech tree. In this case "tech" in the "tech tree" means both technique and technology. This means you could get to the "building" fire via a number of techniques "capture fire", "rub two sticks together", "fire bow", "flint and steel" etc. "Fire bow" might be on the archery branch.

Yes, Tech Diffusion would be quicker with such "skill?" advances but in the particular case of needing Bronze Working to get to Iron Working, Bronze Working historically, in RL, is a nonsense tech if you don't have access to copper and tin but do have access to Iron.

Thinking on it perhaps it is just a bit of cultural bias that the names of these techniques are Metal Working, Bronze Working and Iron Working may maybe they should be Bloom Furnaces (or Metal Refining), Metal Casting (or Alloys) and Crucible/Blast Furnace. We are still missing the earlier tech of Metal Hammering (something Hydro & I have discussed at length) where metals found in their useful metallic form in nature ar put to use. Eg Iron in a meteorite can be made into knives etc just by cutting of flakes from the main body. No need to melt or work anything.

My original thought was something of a race with the whole locked resources, make it feel like a race on tech... The first empire to research bronze weaponry, iron weaponry, gunpowered, etc get a unique trait for all of their units to make superior versions of that metal type, the rest of the empire who didn't win can research it normally but won't get the special trait that comes with the "world first" bonus.

For example... I was the first empire to research Bronze Weaponry, so therefore, all units that uses bronze gain a +1 Strength bonus. Rest of the world won't get that bonus because we was the first who spread the world on how to make bronze weapons but we kept the most powerful reserved for our military officers and commanders.

It's quite an interesting idea when I was playing the latest Destiny 2 expansion called Shadowkeep, and they wanted to set something unique for players to try to race to becoming world first to beat the latest raid. The reward for the winners are the pinnacle weapons, and allow people to have access to the season of the undying content.

It does look like an interesting idea. However it also looks like it may be prone to enhancing the "steamroller effect" where the tech leader gets stronger and so gets further ahead.