Value of "First Strike"

[riapopia]

So, I've really never made extensive use of first strike units/promotions and have generally ignored them in my strategy. I understand on some level that a unit with X strength plus 2 first strikes is somewhat more likely to defeat another unit with X strength and no first strikes. I just cannot quantify what "somewhat" means. Is it greater than a simple Combat 1 promotion?

I've read somewhere that a first strike translates into a free round of combat but I'm unclear exactly what that means. When is a first strike more valuable than a simple strength upgrade?

Thanks for any help you can provide,

 

[Cam_H]

Probably the best advice would be to point you to Arathorn's article; Combat explained that's in the War Academy (it's addressed towards the end). Also the 'search facility' will point you to loads of threads.

 

[reknaw]

I find the biggest advantage of Drill promotions is not so much a greater chance to win, but that those units tend to have much more health remaining after winning a battle, and take much more health from the enemy units when they lose. I don't know the theory to back this up, it's just what I've noticed through playing.

 

[ratrangerm]

If you want to look at the power of multiple Drill promotions, play as Zara on BTS. Oromo Warrior's multiple first strikes means you can sometimes beat a Longbowman without having to inflict collateral damage with a Cat or a Treb.

 

[Puzzlemaker]

Does first strike apply when attacking, or only defending? I thought it was only defending.

 

[v8_mark]

Does first strike apply when attacking, or only defending? I thought it was only defending.

It applies to both.

 

[Verge]

Give Drill promotions to units when your combat odds are already very good; since you're likely to win anyway, Drill helps reduce damage your units receive.

Give Combat promotions to units when your combat odds are less favorable; you need the extra strength to gain an advantage.

 

[Iranon]

reknaw, your empirical results are confirmed by the theory behind it. Generally, Drill will increase the chance to win a single encounter less than another relevant promotion. On the other hand, the reduced damage can indirectly boost survival rates more... for example, a lone fortified defender expecting to be attacked multiple times will benefit more from Drill than Combat upgrades.

 

[obsolete]

If you are worried about collateral damage, then I suppose drill may be your fancy.

 

[vicawoo]

One neglected use is higher chances of damaging the unit, that is to soften them up. For example, samurai have 2 first strikes, and against equal strength, it takes 5 hits for either side to win. You might be facing a stronger enemy, so it might be 4 hits for them to win. But if you have 2 first strikes, they have to score 6 hits in a row in order to avoid damage as opposed to 4 in a row. If you want to score at least 2 hits (>30% damage), odds of failing is p^6 {6 hits in a row} + (6 C 5) *p^5*(1-p)*p {some combination of 5 hits for him, 1 for you, followed by the finishing blow} or p^6*(1+6*(1-p)) compared to p^4*(1+4*(1-p)), where p is the probability your opponent wins a round. So if the opponent has a 70% chance of winning a round, you roughly 50% greater odds of doing at least 2 hits.

Of course, then your unit is weaker and does less damage, so for this attrition use, you might do this so that even if you went straight strength, you would still be losing.

 

[riapopia]

Give Drill promotions to units when your combat odds are already very good; since you're likely to win anyway, Drill helps reduce damage your units receive.

Give Combat promotions to units when your combat odds are less favorable; you need the extra strength to gain an advantage.

This was exactly the advice I was looking for. Simple and dumbed down for me.

Thanks,

 

[madscientist]

I have found two units do very well with drill promotion.

1) Privateers. Keep promoting them up the drill path and go sink caravels and Galleons ( and maybe some Galleys for teh stoneage civc). Once you start hitting level III and above you can usually battle without taking damage. Send them in pairs, one promoted with combat and one drill, attack primarily with drill.

2) Orome. Start with Drill II, just amazing what you can promote them up to.

 

[duende29]

Does anyone know if Drill +II units have priorities in the stack against Siege for the Collateral reduction? As in, they soak collateral instead of other units...

I always keep some Drill units in the stack if the stack is big enough, but only after Gunpowder.

 

[DigitalBoy]

Something I don't think has been mentionned yet is that other promotions always affect base strength. To oversimplify things, I'm just going to compare Combat vs. Drill. Combat always increases the strength of a unit according to its base strength. Giving a Combat promotion to a full-health archer always increases its strength by 0.3, so when you consider that archer already has a 50% city defense bonus and probably another 50% from fortification and cultural defense, that's just increasing the archer's strength from 6.0 to 6.3. So the strength bonus becomes comparatively less significant, whereas first strikes from Drill promotions would become more significant.

 

[Zanttu]

Give Drill promotions to units when your combat odds are already very good; since you're likely to win anyway, Drill helps reduce damage your units receive.

Give Combat promotions to units when your combat odds are less favorable; you need the extra strength to gain an advantage.

I usually give drill promotions to units with below 40% odds also. That way they can damage the enemy units more, so the next attacking unit has easier job to do.

 

[CivCorpse]

Does anyone know if Drill +II units have priorities in the stack against Siege for the Collateral reduction? As in, they soak collateral instead of other units...

I always keep some Drill units in the stack if the stack is big enough, but only after Gunpowder.

Jeez dude....now they're gonna do "math" again....and my brain will hurt all over.