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Vassal states

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by killbot, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. killbot

    killbot Chieftain

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    Ithink that vassal states would add a great deal of depth to the game. Essentially, you could account for many more of the world's minor states in a way that didn't require constant barbarian attacks.
    I need some ideas about how to implement this (conceptually and Python or XML if that's possible).
    I was thinking that you could make a barbarian faction that gave its protector all the units it generated, some gold, and was easily swayed by culture to adopt another protector.
    Any ideas?
     
  2. Tabris

    Tabris Warlord

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    There are actually a lot of thinkgs that can be added to the game that would be very good.
    Vassalization is one of them, i beleave it will not be something very difficcult when people begin to learn more about python and xml for civ4.

    Some good games to ge ideas are Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings, Knights of Honor, Legion Arena and other underground historic simulation games. It would be really cool to equip and customize every unit by yourself (like in legion arena), or having to take care of your sucession (like in Crusader Kings and Knights de Honor) and moral system for the units (like Europa Universalis).
     
  3. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Atm, my mod includes "vassalage" as a diplomatic agreement that one civ can conclude with another one... basically it's like an alliance where one civ is getting all the benefits and another is getting the right to continue existing.
     
  4. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel Yeah, well... Supporter

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    That's awesome :goodjob:
     
  5. Tabris

    Tabris Warlord

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    If it is to be historically and like other games there should be a tribute also, game normally represent this tribute as a % of the vassal income going to the vassalizator (this word exists? O.o)
     
  6. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel Yeah, well... Supporter

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    Liege. :p
    xcl
     
  7. Tacit_Exit

    Tacit_Exit King

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    :lol: Thats Ah-nolds next movie isn't it?
     
  8. Crayton

    Crayton King

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    If you get the Vassalage diplomacy working well then Civ4 is one step closer to becoming a MassMultiplayerOnlineGame (have no idea if that is the official term...)
     
  9. Rufus T. Firefly

    Rufus T. Firefly Rufus is coming in town!

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    Something like the old Imperialism, then? The idea of trade consulate and other one could be taken from this other milestone of games.
     
  10. CellKu

    CellKu Emperor

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    Dom Pedro II, does that mean that the other civ continuously hands over its money, techs etc.? Or is it more like a one-time thing, meaning you get all the money, techs etc. only once when the agreement is made?
     
  11. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    It's continuous. But you don't get all of their money per turn.. just a percentage... a very large percentage :)

    But, naturally, the vassal can get out of the agreement too, but canceling the agreement leaves you at war with the Lord (think of it like a rebellion).

    On the other hand, there's a less severe diplomatic agreement called Protectorate that can be cancelled by the protectorate without a declaration of war. It, however, does not come with as many cool benefits for the dominant civ that the Vassalage agreement does.

    The other thing present with both is that the protectorate/vassal has no direct diplomatic relations with any other civilization. It automatically assumes the relationships of the dominant civ. So if the lead civ has a war with civilization X, the vassal will too. If they make peace, the vassal is at peace with civilization X. If the lead civ has open borders, so too will the vassal with the third party.

    I also want the Vassal state to donate some of its troops to the Lord civilization's armies somehow... like automatic gifting I guess. I haven't quite solidified the details, and all of it will be subject to change of course.

    But yeah, basically, it provides an alternative to simple conquest.

    Some of the other diplomatic states I'm considering are: Annexation/Surrender. Basically, if you're at war with a drastically inferior civilization and you're trouncing them militarily, they might accept full surrender and annexation into your empire. Basically, this destroys the civilization as a player but hands over all the cities, units, remaining gold and technologies to you. In general, it's exceptionally rare for the AI to accept this.

    In the case of Vassalage and Surrender, there's a strong possibility that rebels will appear in the areas around the city to oppose the puppet state and the Lord. Essentially, these will just be tougher barbarian units that will hassle the vassal and lord alike... or heck, even the people who happen to be adjacent to them.

    IF we can find a way to have a schism develop, that might also work too.. so that if Civilization X accepts Vassalage with Civilization Y, it might cause CivX to split into the puppet state of CivX and the "free" state of Civilization Z. A good example might be that of Vichy and Free France in WWII. Otherwise, it'll just be barbarian units cropping up.

    Another diplomatic state I'm considering is one that can be made amongst several civilizations... In other words, rather than Civilization A having a defensive pact with Civilization B and another with Civilization C. Civilization A can create a sort of international organization that B and C can join as can Civilization D and F. And so they'll all be part of this combined agreement with similar obligations and priveleges. Sort of like NATO, Triple Entente, even the Axis.

    At the moment, I'm debating whether I should create multiple organization types for this or if it should be customizable... for example, something like the GEACPS, Warsaw Pact or some of the customs unions that either existed or were planned that would've essentially made one partner the ruler over the others.... sort of reducing them to client status. On the other hand, other organizations such as the Zollverein, NAFTA or the WTO are really just economic agreeement organizations and are not political or military institutions.

    So basically, the founding state of said organization could have a series of radio buttons, check boxes or sliders to determine what the organization would have control over, the extent of that control, and the status of the members as being equal partners or subservient to one state. That in turn would determine other civs' willingness to join it obviously :)
     
  12. CellKu

    CellKu Emperor

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    That sounds absolutely fascinating, Dom Pedro II! :goodjob: How much of all that have you finished yet? (I hope you will release it to the public.)
     
  13. Coopa

    Coopa Chieftain

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    Sounds amazing, and I do hope you release it

    for Annexation, it think it should be
    -Lose all Gold every turn
    -Unbreakable (unless the Major empire (annexor) is destroyed)
    -Lose all/majority of Troops to Major empire (annexor)

    Then there should be another one which is Temporary Alliance, this should only be in place for the length of a war (until Opposition surrenders)
    -Share all Gold, Information and Technology

    I may be going over the top here, sorry if this is impossible.

    Another thing it would be great if you could donate a unit for a period of time (like 5 turns.) Representing offensives etc

    If any of this could be done it would Multiplayer heaven, and not too shabby in SP either
     
  14. heroes182

    heroes182 Rockstar

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    Very nice, I'm liking this idea very much!
    Despite there not being any real mechanic for this in the game already, I've always liked beating Civs back until they only have 1 or 2 cities left, then "gracefully" let them sign peace treaties, and visit them every few turns to demand they empty their pockets or else! :p
     
  15. Schlomoe99

    Schlomoe99 Trench Raider

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    Ah, Imperialism! :D Possibly my fav global TBS after Civ, definately a classic.
    I remember wooing and cajoling for years in that game to convince minor tribes to become my colonies. It had a very good diplomacy map, showing countries' attitude towards you by their shades of Red ->> Green.

    Those were the days!
     
  16. Greek Plunder

    Greek Plunder Civvidy-doo.

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    Hopefully it works better than Rome: Total War's Vassalage diplomatic option.
     
  17. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Right now, all of this is merely on paper. I'm going to be publishing a website soon that will be listing all of the features of the mod as distinct from vanilla Civ4. I'm going to try to put together a production team so as to alleviate the responsibility of me coding everything.

    Poor planning is the death of a decent program... I want to have everything laid out before I delve too far into the process of coding. Atm, I'm doing extensive planning and learning how to be able to code with Python.
     

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