Vassals...

[Ogaburan]

Really strange thing happened to me... Im playing as the Inca on Emperor lvl.

TO my frustration closest neighbors were Gilgamesh chin & Saladin... all protective... i like to start my games with a rush... and i did manage to conquer china & Frederick, but it gave me really irregular borders with Shaka and Saladin almost cutting me in two separate nations.

ANYWAY...

Gilga was getting powerful so i was his ". .. .. .. .. ." declaring war on whoever he declared and giving him stuff for free... Had my own trouble... was fighthing on 2 fronts with 5 nations... manly sneak-behind-you-with-elephants-through-Egypt-Hannibal and freakishly-large-armies-Shaka.

SO it turned out, fairly early in the game Gilga was almost the king of the world. With three vassals, Ragnar Saladin and Alex. Those two capitulated to him.. even tho i was the one taking some serious pounding... basically i was being attacked by them only so gilga can rush to their capital...

After some years... First Saladin became independent... then Ragnar. Which in turned declared war on me... then Saladin did the same thing... That was too much and i gave away allot of techs for peace... Then Justinian came from far far away and declared war on Gilgamesh. Now later in the game Gilgamesh is a joke... And i have 3 vassals.

My question is... WHY and HOW did the vassals declared independence form Gilgamesh?? And why dosent that lead to war? It was really annoying to me.. coz i was sure i dont have to bother with Ragnar and Saladin once i had such good relations with their master Gilgamesh...

This game is amazing... it never stops surprising me.

 

[Crighton]

There are two types of Vassals, the type that have basically lost their war for survival and CAPITULATE to the rival civ and the other type that basically wants to get protection from another civ so they become VOLUNTARY vassals.

In order for a capitulated vassal to break the vassal agreement one of two conditions must be met:

First Condition: the vassal looses 51% or greater of his original lands (original lands meaning the lands he had when he became the vassal

Second Condition: The vassal must achieve a certain percentages (51% or greater) in comparison to the master, population and land size.

(There is a very rare THIRD condition, basically you demand resources from the vassal and eventually an option will apear that says "give me this resource or we go back to war if you refuse," doesn't happen often.)

When your voluntary vassal breaks free from your benevolent rule, you get notified by it in the diplo menu, where you can declare war if you want to.

Some Civs (Ghandi I'm looking at you) love to become a voluntary vassal when their neighbors get big and powerful. Then he goes skulking about looking for a Cultural or a Space Race victory while being your vassal.

Hope this helped, if not click my sig for mor info.

~Crighton

 

[Ogaburan]

Im new here... Whats a SIG?

And again.. i know how to keep my vassals.. what was annoying to me was how easily Gilgamesh lost his vassals.

They shouldn't have capitulated in the first place... only to break free after a short period of time...

 

[Supr49er]

Im new here... Whats a SIG?

And again.. i know how to keep my vassals.. what was annoying to me was how easily Gilgamesh lost his vassals.

They shouldn't have capitulated in the first place... only to break free after a short period of time...

His signature - at the bottom of his post.

Welcome to the Forums Ogaburan.

 

[Ogaburan]

oh my... do i look stupid now...

 

[Crighton]

No worries, currently you only have three posts, welcome to the forums by the way.

I believe what probably happened to you was that Gilg had voluntary vassals who jumped ship, leaving Gilg in much weaker state than when he had the vassals. So he goes from nasty predator to someones lunch in a short period of time.

Capitulated vassals are vastly preferable for exactly that reason. You can almost always count on voluntary vassals to leave you at the most inopportune moment. When the AI looks at you it looks at your combined strength and compares it to itself. If that ratio changes to favor the AI, the AI is going to try and eat you alive.

 

[obsolete]

It has been said, that no good can ever come from a VOLUNTARY vassal.

 

[tranmerefan]

It has been said, that no good can ever come from a VOLUNTARY vassal.

I had a great relationship one game with my voluntary German vassal. Between us, we conquered over 60% of the globe wiping out the Native Americans in the process. They didn't leave me or anything...



..Ok, they took a total of 6 cities, I lost count of mine. They were probably scared stiff of me.

 

[Ogaburan]

I had some great relationships with my Voluntary vassals as well, the Koreans, kept my borders clean and helped me wipe out the superior Khmer empire...

 

[Crighton]

Vassals have their uses, but a capitulated one is almost always more useful than a voluntary one (at least with the capitulated you know it'll be freezing in hell before he leaves you, the voluntary one will always leave you when it's most likely to screw you over).