Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Which is roughly comparable to Florence and the Florin was essentially an international currency, so I'd still argue that Florence is more associated with banks.
Venice discussion
- Thread starter nunor
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Which is roughly comparable to Florence and the Florin was essentially an international currency, so I'd still argue that Florence is more associated with banks.
Princeofnigeria
The illustrious
Maybe it works differently in italian, but in spanish (as I'm told a very similar language) serenisima means "very serene", not "most serene".
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
It does mean very Serene, although it's often translated as Most Serene. Most Serene would be Il piu serena.
werothegreat
Warlord
Another question - if Venice loses Venice to conquest, are they now stuck with an empire of puppet cities? Or does one of them magically get annexed for the time being?
I hope Dandolo speaks Venetian and not Italian though I suppose there won't be much difference to my ears. Can't wait to see his leaderscreen.
Assuming of course this isn't a ruse with a lot of effort behind it. Unless it's already been officially confirmed over this 'de facto' confirmation and I'm behind.
Assuming of course this isn't a ruse with a lot of effort behind it. Unless it's already been officially confirmed over this 'de facto' confirmation and I'm behind.
Veras
Prince
It is a form of intensity that I think doesn't exist in English. In portuguese we call it 'superlativo'. Works the same way.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Id guess puppet empire. They can still buy all they need
Same here. I can't wait to see his leader screen. As for the language, I might get annoyed as I know a little Italian though I might not know the difference between "Venesia" and "Venezia"
Navelgazer
Emperor
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Okay I'm excited for this now. This may have supplanted Portugal as my first game with BNW (though probably not. I'll still want to learn the new mechanics with a somewhat more standard civ than with the hypercube.) Anyway...
1. I made a thread in the general discussions forum earlier today about the player archetypes of Timmy, Johnny and Spike. Venice is absolutely a Johnny civ and absolutely not a Spike civ, so I get the controversy here, but for those of us who play a certain way this looks amazing.
2. I'm curious to see how this (and to a lesser extent Austria's) UA will play with Portugal's Feitoria. IIRC the Feitoria cannot be pillaged, so we could end up in a situation where Portugal is spamming workers to get those placed in every CS they can (which probably Portugal should do as soon as it's able anyway) before Venice takes them over, so that once Venice has control Portugal still receives its resources (though not the double number that they'd get by being allied to the CS.)
3. I think the AI for this could actually be pretty terrifying. As far as I can tell, the biggest issue with the AI in this game is that there are so many options and so many different aspects one could prioritize that the AI simply has too many attractive "bad" options available to it. The biggest thing Venice does is to severely limit its options, which might make it simpler for the AI to exploit. Or it might just have no clue what to do.
4. One nice aspect of the strategy that will develop around Venice is that wonderspamming will have almost no downside (see again a good option for the AI) as failure will basically mean more buildings/units in the puppet states.
5. Coastal start bias is almost 100% here, I'm thinking. The thought process behind the free MoV at Optics seems to be that a.) you'll definitely need a settler by than, b.) you'll need him to be able to embark, and c.) you really should have gotten a trireme or two out there exploring by that point. I doubt it will do anything about being within 2 tiles of a mountain, though. Machu Pichu would be nice but the game isn't going to strain itself to give it to you like that.
6. Again, wonder-spamming is going to be the name of the game, but Big Ben, the Mausoleum and Machu Pichu (if at all possible) are going to be super important here.
1. I made a thread in the general discussions forum earlier today about the player archetypes of Timmy, Johnny and Spike. Venice is absolutely a Johnny civ and absolutely not a Spike civ, so I get the controversy here, but for those of us who play a certain way this looks amazing.
2. I'm curious to see how this (and to a lesser extent Austria's) UA will play with Portugal's Feitoria. IIRC the Feitoria cannot be pillaged, so we could end up in a situation where Portugal is spamming workers to get those placed in every CS they can (which probably Portugal should do as soon as it's able anyway) before Venice takes them over, so that once Venice has control Portugal still receives its resources (though not the double number that they'd get by being allied to the CS.)
3. I think the AI for this could actually be pretty terrifying. As far as I can tell, the biggest issue with the AI in this game is that there are so many options and so many different aspects one could prioritize that the AI simply has too many attractive "bad" options available to it. The biggest thing Venice does is to severely limit its options, which might make it simpler for the AI to exploit. Or it might just have no clue what to do.
4. One nice aspect of the strategy that will develop around Venice is that wonderspamming will have almost no downside (see again a good option for the AI) as failure will basically mean more buildings/units in the puppet states.
5. Coastal start bias is almost 100% here, I'm thinking. The thought process behind the free MoV at Optics seems to be that a.) you'll definitely need a settler by than, b.) you'll need him to be able to embark, and c.) you really should have gotten a trireme or two out there exploring by that point. I doubt it will do anything about being within 2 tiles of a mountain, though. Machu Pichu would be nice but the game isn't going to strain itself to give it to you like that.
6. Again, wonder-spamming is going to be the name of the game, but Big Ben, the Mausoleum and Machu Pichu (if at all possible) are going to be super important here.
NukeAJS
King
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- 850
I didn't have the time to read all 15 pages of the thread, but how powerful Venice is really depends on if puppetted cities get trade routes or not. If they do, Venice could have an insane amount of trade routes. Those trade routes could be leveraged into buying buildings/?units? in puppetted cities quite easily. Also, if you can choose trade routes for puppetted cities (whether Venice or any other civ), you can maximize benefits. And of course (assuming this still works), you can just spam trading posts and use the money to purchase buildings/?units? in a puppetted city.
PerceeP927
Warlord
Obviously a fabrication. I will eat no hats
At last people get the Barbarian civ that they have been clamoring fo., Get read for a wild ride through History people. First thing to do as Venice is build on a swamp then recruit a bunch of French and Italian soccer hooligans call it a Crusade and randomly attack another Christian country instead of an Islamic one, steal everything not nailed down, get most of the hooligans killed and head home. Then refuse to upgrade your naval units no matter what and lose everything to the Ottomans before Napoleon and then the Austrians Annex you.
Viregel
, The Rt. Hon.
Should the Merchant of Venice cost 1
?
?
Martinus
Emperor
That may be true but remember that with Freedom ideology you can now buy space ship parts with cash. Sounds like something giving a significant edge to cash-heavy civs like Venice.
Why would that be the case? For science, puppet 6-7 cities, purchase all science buildings in all of them, go for Freedom ideology, choose the science victory finisher, amass cash and purchase all space ship parts in one turn.
What is kind of annoying, you people are not reading the UA abilities properly and not linking them to what we know about other game changes.
You can buy buildings in your puppeted cities as Venice.
Martinus
Emperor
Have you considered Piety as the opener - remember that now you can get it as soon as the starting three, so this may be a viable alternative, especially if you are going for a Cultural victory (and this fits Venice historically and thematically, too
). Also, one thing to remember in BNW is that while finishers are still powerful, you no longer need to complete social policy trees for cultural victory, so there is more room to picking and choosing different policies from many trees.
stealth_nsk
Deity
Sorry for coming late, but I went through the whole thread 
Some thoughts:
1. I expect Austria to be changed, most likely to something related to Great Musicians and their Great Works. So, Venice together with Mongols will be main CS-threat. And I really hope Venice will not remove them from the game.
2. Allowing to buy in puppets is really-really strong. I like how the new civs play with slightly different rules.
3. Since number of Great Merchants you could get is not that big, I expect Venice gameplay to be highly combat-focused. At least after allowing neighbors to settle nearby.
4. Great Galleas looks quite standard, but it fits very well. First, it's on the same naval branch with Optics granting the first Venetian Merchant. Second, it allows protecting naval trade routes which is very important for Venice, since it needs a lot of gold and most likely will be in war with neighbors often.
Some thoughts:1. I expect Austria to be changed, most likely to something related to Great Musicians and their Great Works. So, Venice together with Mongols will be main CS-threat. And I really hope Venice will not remove them from the game.
2. Allowing to buy in puppets is really-really strong. I like how the new civs play with slightly different rules.
3. Since number of Great Merchants you could get is not that big, I expect Venice gameplay to be highly combat-focused. At least after allowing neighbors to settle nearby.
4. Great Galleas looks quite standard, but it fits very well. First, it's on the same naval branch with Optics granting the first Venetian Merchant. Second, it allows protecting naval trade routes which is very important for Venice, since it needs a lot of gold and most likely will be in war with neighbors often.
Martinus
Emperor
I assume this includes Faith-buying. I can already imagine some early warmongering with Piety/Honor openers and Holy War belief, where you buy units in your puppets with Faith, steal other people's great works, and then buy Cathedrals to display them so you can win a Cultural victory.
Sounds very Enrico Dandolo.
stealth_nsk
Deity
I assume this includes Faith-buying. I can already imagine some early warmongering with Piety/Honor openers and Holy War belief, where you buy units in your puppets with Faith, steal other people's great works, and then buy in Cathedrals to display them so you can win a Cultural victory.
Sounds very Enrico Dandolo.
Yeah, and a lot of trade routes to spread the religion. Looks like we'll have "Holy Venice" and "Gold Venice" playstyles with both being fun.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
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- 12,418
Can venice buy in puppets with faith? I think it may have said only gold
stealth_nsk
Deity
Exact wording (at least in current screenshot) is "May purchase in puppeted cities". Gold is not mentioned, so most likely you could purchase with either gold or faith.
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