Venice for DOMINATION?

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Is domination the only VC that Venice can achieve in a timely manner? I've done OCC's in the past and won Science games with them, but with the culture revamp I can't seem to get the policies I need in time. Provided a GODLY start , there's probably a way to compete tech-wise, or am I just doin something wrong?

 

[darden]

well, define "timely manner."

usually with Venice I just focus on making as much gold as possible and buying up all the city states that I don't annex (usually only annex 1-3 CS's depending on the map size, and use them to send food to Venice)

no matter what, I won't annex any militaristic city states... instead, I'll stay allied with them and let them give me units. that's usually more than enough to keep my cities defended and maybe even go on the offensive if there's another Civ in the victory lead.

 

[fyar]

Is domination the only VC that Venice can achieve in a timely manner? I've done OCC's in the past and won Science games with them, but with the culture revamp I can't seem to get the policies I need in time. Provided a GODLY start , there's probably a way to compete tech-wise, or am I just doin something wrong?

Wow, I thought diplomatic victory was clearly the one that Venice was most suited to. Tons of money to buy city-states, few enemies because of their lack of expansion and because all those trade routes means that they'll be less prone to attack you lest they lose their share of the profits.

I won a cultural victory with them (at Emperor) by going WIDE of all things (although it was also pretty tall, Venice was in the 40s). Frankly, I had so much money, I needed new cities just so that I could spend it all. I had a pretty dominating game, still the only game in which I've had a city flip to me for ideological reasons. I believe I won it without even getting Internet or going on any concert tours. Two words: sacred sites.

To answer your question, are you doing something wrong? Well it's hard to know without more context. I will say, it is pretty hard to get through all the policy trees you want for a cultural victory as Venice. You might open Tradition, you'll have to go through Commerce to get more Merchants of Venice, you'll need Aesthetics to get your GWAMs, Rationalism as always, your ideological tenets, and you might also want Consulates, a Reformation belief, and Exploration to strengthen and protect all those cargo ships. That's a lot of policies. Luckily, your social policy cost won't be increasing any time soon.

 

[EK834]

I've done all of them (except Time, and for science I cheated by delaying the DV by abstaining/just blocking Alexander) on King and on Emperor I still have to do a domination and a science game.

Diplo is by a long shot the easiest, Culture isn't that much more difficult if you manage to get very tall early enough (to get the Wonders and the specialists for the GP.. the rest is only getting the tourism-enhancing techs/buildings). Science is a bit more challenging if you don't cheat to delay a default Diplo Victory. Domination was the most challenging for me, but I'm not playing a lot of domination games (it was my first with BNW) and I suspect it's more that than Venice being particularly difficult for it.


The Venice paradox is that you need a fairly good grasp of the game/strategies/mechanics to play it well and make much of it, but when you're an experienced Civ player, it's also a very strong/easy civ to play (in other words, perhaps its economic advantages should be diminished a bit to make it more of a challenge, since that civ is mostly for experienced players yet too easy ATM).

Otherwise the basics are easy: Venice needs to get very tall, and you need to prioritize getting/keeping as many trade routes up as you can use at the time, and get the techs, especially the science-related ones, in a timely manner. All the rest follows. It's playing tall, only a bit easier because of the monstrous economy. With that, you can be whatever you want. You can buy and maintain an impressive army/navy, you can become a total Wonder monger (on Emperor and below)/Tourism monster, and the beakers are flowing to make a SV fairly easy, you only need the proper Freedom tenet to be able to buy spaceship parts since you have only one city to build them in.

 

[Yzman]

Venice is great for diplo, science and even cultural victory. I wouldn't say they are best suited for domination, though they can definitely do it.

 

[Dark Paladin X]

The problem is Venice is that you need to get hold of strategic resources to achieve this victory. Venice is limited to owning one city and any city you capture become puppet states (which you virtually have no control of what they do), thus making it more difficult for Venice to control land and strategic resources. In order to win Domination victory, you need to get hold as much territory as possible and control a reasonable amount of cities. Also, their UA is more suited for diplomatic victory.

The reason the British and Japanese are suited for Domination victory (even though the folks here see Japanese UA, Bushido, as "being weak" is because they have unique perks that makes them relatively useful for Domination victory). The Zulus, Mongols, Aztecs, and the Huns are well-suited for Domination victory because they have unique units AND abilities that helps them for domination victory (particularly the Aztecs and Huns who are more early game oriented). Venice UA prevents them from expanding and thus not best suited for Domination victory.

 

[katfish]

The problem is Venice is that you need to get hold of strategic resources to achieve this victory. Venice is limited to owning one city and any city you capture become puppet states (which you virtually have no control of what they do), thus making it more difficult for Venice to control land and strategic resources. In order to win Domination victory, you need to get hold as much territory as possible and control a reasonable amount of cities. Also, their UA is more suited for diplomatic victory.

The reason the British and Japanese are suited for Domination victory (even though the folks here see Japanese UA, Bushido, as "being weak" is because they have unique perks that makes them relatively useful for Domination victory). The Zulus, Mongols, Aztecs, and the Huns are well-suited for Domination victory because they have unique units AND abilities that helps them for domination victory (particularly the Aztecs and Huns who are more early game oriented). Venice UA prevents them from expanding and thus not best suited for Domination victory.

Since when expanding were suited for domination victory?
And Venice IS awesome for domination victory:
1. You get lots gold, you can easily befriend civs and sell your gpt to your warmongering partners(people like shaka are often loaded as hell)
2. You don't have to expand - you can actually try to wonderhog everything on lower difficulties, or build early army snipe your neighborhoods still maintaining good relations to others - all thanks to caravans
3. You don't have to worry about courthouses and buy units in the middle of enemy empire.
4. I can't stress enough how much gold you get, since you're pretty much obliged to go commerce with Venice. Late in game, while fighting total war, i don't even care about my caravans - all thanks to commerce tradingpost-related finisher

Its quite ironic how venice loading screen preaches about diplomacy, while Venice maybe the most suited warmonger for me.

 

[Gort]

Venice plus the tenet in Freedom that makes city states like you for a trade-route makes for a godly Diplomatic victory, and they're no slouches at Science victory either.

 

[Tinker]

Venice is great for domination, definitely the easiest victory (depending on map) except for diplomacy. You can buy up city-states right next to your intended victim, have an instant army by buying a ton of units, which you can supply by just captured cities' units as well.

 

[MantaRevan]

Venice can really do everything besides culture, and they aren't really any worse off at that. They're obvious candidates for diplomacy but they can totally do conquest and have a vibrant economy where they purchase units on the front lines in their puppet states.
In my current Venice series I'm leaning towards diplomacy, but I could have totally done domination had I started conquering earlier.

 

[FrostK]

Venice domination? Please... Ofc u can, but if u can do it for Venice, u can do it for nearly any civ.
Puppets are very weak in general and cities u conquer will always build useless buildings. Also war is always bad for trading xD. When your cargo ships get pillaged you become very sad.

Venice SV is kinda easy, even on deity - just abuse sea food trade routes and go freedom later. You need 3-4 cities and a lot of RAs. [Hint: puppets are on gold focus and usually do not place science specialists, but when you put sea trade routes, often number of citizens will increase number of tiles and merchant slots, so city will place scientists]
However, even on very good starts I failed to go below 240 turn. The reason I guess is that again puppets are weak.

 

[katfish]

Venice domination? Please... Ofc u can, but if u can do it for Venice, u can do it for nearly any civ

Not every civ have merchants with 2x gold trade missions and ability to buy 4-6 CB after getting Optics.

 

[sendos]

Depends on context as previously stated, namely map type and size. If we're talking huge pangaea, then that rules out naval forces and I don't see how it could be done. You'd need an epic crack force to head to every single capital. Best time to advance would be as soon as you get artilleries, ensuring that you're (one of) the first to get them.

If we're talking archipelago, that would seem a bit easier. Get a strong force of battleships, destroyers, submarines and some carriers containing an even amount of bombers and fighters. Add an land force if the AI capital happens to be in-land.

Keep in mind that as soon as you start warmongering, prepare for the wave of hate and even the wave of war from everyone. If everyone is against you, your UA may just as well become useless if you can't guard the trade routes.

 

[katfish]

You don't have to put much on guarding your trade routes on Pangaea
And you stop caring about them when you finish Commerce and able to buy bomber every turn with 3000g+ merchants popping around your empire.

 

[fyar]

In the OP's defense, I will say that Venice does have one underrated perk for domination victories that no other civ has: puppet purchasing. Most civs build their army with hammers, back at home, and it takes a while to send in the reinforcements back to the main front. Venice builds most of their army with gold, and with that you can build it anywhere, including in your recently conquered territories. That can be a good enough reason to conquer and then keep those crappy size 3 cities: less waiting for the unrest to subside, and then you have an insta-army right there at the front.

 

[Luckystrike77]

And not to mention all the units you get for free from undertaking CS's with merchants.