JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
You need Arena to build Champion Wonder.
Version 2.8 discussion
- Thread starter zappara
- Start date
Is there any way to make the resource line in F4 resource trade, two lines instead of one. Or make it horizontal scrolling. Right now alot of the resources cannot be seen because so many new ones are added in rom.
Another small thing :
The Jousting Tournament req is stable. Shouldnt it be Knights Stable instead. Once you build the knights stable you are unable to build the JT.
A third small thing :
The bakery is available with granery. When modern granary is build you are unable to build the bakery.
4th : Rocketry before Aerodynamics? Which means you have V1 rockets with doubledecked airplanes? I think it requires aerodynamics to make long distance precision rockets. Not sure though. Didnt research it. (I'm a divemaster not a rocket scientist
)
5th : steam and early diesel ships. There are so many of them. Half of them resembles eachother and are very close in stats/techs. How about making them ethnic diverce instead.
6th : Obsolete jewelry with mass media? (if I recall correctly). Why?
7th : Same goes for Artist Guild. Its probably the most known still existing guild in modern world.
8th : IMO the watermill is way to powerfull. It would however make sense if there was a dam graphic replacement for modern times. I've been travelling on a lot of rivers and only seen 1 or 2 real life watermills. And they were mostly museums. In RoM it is the most powerfull improvement.
just my 8 cents
Another small thing :
The Jousting Tournament req is stable. Shouldnt it be Knights Stable instead. Once you build the knights stable you are unable to build the JT.
A third small thing :
The bakery is available with granery. When modern granary is build you are unable to build the bakery.
4th : Rocketry before Aerodynamics? Which means you have V1 rockets with doubledecked airplanes? I think it requires aerodynamics to make long distance precision rockets. Not sure though. Didnt research it. (I'm a divemaster not a rocket scientist
)5th : steam and early diesel ships. There are so many of them. Half of them resembles eachother and are very close in stats/techs. How about making them ethnic diverce instead.
6th : Obsolete jewelry with mass media? (if I recall correctly). Why?
7th : Same goes for Artist Guild. Its probably the most known still existing guild in modern world.
8th : IMO the watermill is way to powerfull. It would however make sense if there was a dam graphic replacement for modern times. I've been travelling on a lot of rivers and only seen 1 or 2 real life watermills. And they were mostly museums. In RoM it is the most powerfull improvement.
just my 8 cents
Almost forgot.
The nr 1 on my wishing list : The ctrl+A (abandon city/sell buildings)
Since the AI doesnt know how to use this, what I would love is bringing back the old school : Building is obsolete=Sold automatically. This would especially make sense with buildings that has upgrading paths. As it is now building harbour+port+commercial port+international port doesnt give any benifits compared to just building international port.
If the previous building got sold when building a new one it would actually make a little sense.
On that note : how does the AI respond to the upgrade paths. Will they start out by building the harbour or do they know that building the i-port will obsolete all the others therefore starting out by building it?
If this could be incorporated, I could see a number of other upgrade paths :
Healers Hut - Doctors Office - Hospital
Forge - Foundry - Steel Works
etc etc
Another thing I find weird is the Aquaduct. It is still buildable well into the modern eras (dont think it even goes obsolete) Maybe replace it with modern sanitation.
And lastly the Artisan Well. It almost broke my empire as the 15% food removed in a single day made a lot of people hungry/angry. The hunger can have a quite big effect on revolutions and I could imagine that the AI would struggle double time what I did.
(In my current game I was attacked by an AI I signed a defense pact with the turn before. I got so angry I built a huge fleet of steam ships/subs and pillaged/blokaded practically every sea tile he had. It didnt take long before his empire was crumbling and civil wars split it into 3-4 pieces.)
The nr 1 on my wishing list : The ctrl+A (abandon city/sell buildings)
Since the AI doesnt know how to use this, what I would love is bringing back the old school : Building is obsolete=Sold automatically. This would especially make sense with buildings that has upgrading paths. As it is now building harbour+port+commercial port+international port doesnt give any benifits compared to just building international port.
If the previous building got sold when building a new one it would actually make a little sense.
On that note : how does the AI respond to the upgrade paths. Will they start out by building the harbour or do they know that building the i-port will obsolete all the others therefore starting out by building it?
If this could be incorporated, I could see a number of other upgrade paths :
Healers Hut - Doctors Office - Hospital
Forge - Foundry - Steel Works
etc etc
Another thing I find weird is the Aquaduct. It is still buildable well into the modern eras (dont think it even goes obsolete) Maybe replace it with modern sanitation.
And lastly the Artisan Well. It almost broke my empire as the 15% food removed in a single day made a lot of people hungry/angry. The hunger can have a quite big effect on revolutions and I could imagine that the AI would struggle double time what I did.
(In my current game I was attacked by an AI I signed a defense pact with the turn before. I got so angry I built a huge fleet of steam ships/subs and pillaged/blokaded practically every sea tile he had. It didnt take long before his empire was crumbling and civil wars split it into 3-4 pieces.)
os79
Deity
Is there any way to make the resource line in F4 resource trade, two lines instead of one. Or make it horizontal scrolling. Right now alot of the resources cannot be seen because so many new ones are added in rom.
Another small thing :
The Jousting Tournament req is stable. Shouldnt it be Knights Stable instead. Once you build the knights stable you are unable to build the JT.
A third small thing :
The bakery is available with granery. When modern granary is build you are unable to build the bakery.
4th : Rocketry before Aerodynamics? Which means you have V1 rockets with doubledecked airplanes? I think it requires aerodynamics to make long distance precision rockets. Not sure though. Didnt research it. (I'm a divemaster not a rocket scientist
5th : steam and early diesel ships. There are so many of them. Half of them resembles eachother and are very close in stats/techs. How about making them ethnic diverce instead.
6th : Obsolete jewelry with mass media? (if I recall correctly). Why?
7th : Same goes for Artist Guild. Its probably the most known still existing guild in modern world.
8th : IMO the watermill is way to powerfull. It would however make sense if there was a dam graphic replacement for modern times. I've been travelling on a lot of rivers and only seen 1 or 2 real life watermills. And they were mostly museums. In RoM it is the most powerfull improvement.
just my 8 cents
2. Agreed
3. Agreed - Still go to bakery on occasion IRL. Especially Mexican breads (you know the small hemisphere breads with white strips on them? I love them!)
5. Yes. Especially when tech tree is moving at rapid pace in modern naval warfare age.
6. Agreed
7. Agreed.
os79
Deity
9. It is python function. But yes I agree! I want abandon city ONLY. Not demolish buildings because i t is way too much micro-management and I may be too busy waging wars or consolidating my empire for me to remember to demolish and get gold from it. So in addition to AI issues, here is my issue with it.
Baskedyt
Concerned citizen
Does this means that you now need 10 times the amount of surplus food in order for the city to grow 1 pop, instead of twice as much?
IMO that is a lot of food for each pop growth! And it does make pop rushing very limited - or is that the idea?
I think he meant that the old building are sold automatically when you build the new - upgraded - building. That way you don't need to micro-manage.
Just a quick post about the current patch notes:
Adding BUG 4.0 caused some small issues with python but currently only the new religion screen is bugged as it can't handle more than 7 religions (no scrolling) and I can always revert back to the old version if I can't get this new screen to work - BUG team knows about this issue so they might find a fix for it as well.Spoiler :
Still things to change/add etc but at least these notes can get you discuss about the changes. Let's see what I can do in month...
Looking (very) good. Pls also make sure that Alum Co. actually produces aluminum and Ethanol Corp oil.
Any chance to get some medieval corporations (guilds) added to this update?
os79
Deity
*frown at you* Of course I understood what he meant. I did start out with vanilla Civ 4 before
.for example read about the japanese spear here at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yari
the question of the spear is whether or not it is anti-horseman. in the above reference you read:
"A kagi yari (鉤槍, hook spear) had a long blade with a side hook much like that found on a fauchard. This could be used to catch another weapon, or even dismount a rider on horseback."
now i have to get geeky and think of the old AD&D days... sorry.
but there are basically short spears [spears for melee and throwing] and long spears [melee and polearms, think pike]. maybe it is a question of easy to build short spearmen
and harder to produce long spearmen ?from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_warfare
"The first archaeological evidence of horses used in warfare dates from between 4000 and 3000 BC in the steppes of Eurasia, in what today is Ukraine, Hungary, and Romania. Not long after domestication of the horse, people in these locations began to live together in large fortified towns for protection from the threat of horseback-riding raiders, who could attack and escape faster than people of more sedentary cultures could follow. The use of horses in organised warfare was also documented early in recorded history. One of the first depictions of equids is the "war panel" of the Standard of Ur, in Sumer, dated c. 2500 BC, showing horses (or possibly onagers or mules) pulling a four-wheeled wagon."
now tell me if this is not too much info regarding early spears...
i_diavolorosso
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 446
There is a modcomp that's very impressive (for me at least).I don't know what the name is, because is see it when i played BAT mod.
What this modcomp do is, when you want to build library as example, when you hover the mouse on the library option, it would not just show what the library ldo (25% reseacrh and so on), but it would also show how many actual research point would be added.So if your city has 100 RP, the modcomp would also show that the library will added 25 RP point.
I think it would be a very nice addition to ROM
).I don't know what the name is, because is see it when i played BAT mod.What this modcomp do is, when you want to build library as example, when you hover the mouse on the library option, it would not just show what the library ldo (25% reseacrh and so on), but it would also show how many actual research point would be added.So if your city has 100 RP, the modcomp would also show that the library will added 25 RP point.
I think it would be a very nice addition to ROM
frenzyfol
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2008
- Messages
- 68
Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but as I ranted in a new thread, there's confusion between "+" and "-" unhappy faces in civics. Caste system, for instance, says "- 2" in your largest cities, which would make me think it reduces the
I am also having some confusion about what the difference between
-
and
+
I think I figured it out by just applying common sens to the bonus and what the civic was all about.
frenzyfol
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2008
- Messages
- 68
Additional idea for mod.
Set gold buffer amount:
This feature would allow you to set an amount below which your science slider would automatically adjust itself so as to not decrease your treasury below.
The purpose is so that you always have a certain (defined) amount of gold in your treasury without having to micromanage your science slider on a turn by turn basis.
I'm always annoyed when an event pops up for which I do not have enough gold. Where is that treasurer of mine - beheading time!
Of coarse if your civilisation hits 100% gold and is still running -ve gold per turn then your "set gold buffer" amount would be overwritten.
On a different note.
This link may be of interest to some people here
http://mygeologypage.ucdavis.edu/cowen/~GEL115/index.html
Set gold buffer amount:
This feature would allow you to set an amount below which your science slider would automatically adjust itself so as to not decrease your treasury below.
The purpose is so that you always have a certain (defined) amount of gold in your treasury without having to micromanage your science slider on a turn by turn basis.
I'm always annoyed when an event pops up for which I do not have enough gold. Where is that treasurer of mine - beheading time!
Of coarse if your civilisation hits 100% gold and is still running -ve gold per turn then your "set gold buffer" amount would be overwritten.
On a different note.
This link may be of interest to some people here
http://mygeologypage.ucdavis.edu/cowen/~GEL115/index.html
Not sure about Feudal civic changes yet.Looking good, though are you planning to nerf the feudal civic? (+1food/+2commerce per farm +20%hammers in capital). Because there is no need to be in proletariat when the feudal comes in play. Also the religion civics could be given more rebelliouness from different religions (expect secular*/folklore)
*Little rebelliouness would be realistic though.
Btw what is the scientific victory?
Scientific victory requires you to research just about all techs and then building Ascension Gate to get the victory.
Are you sure? It's about strategy...
However, note that when I post these preliminary patch notes, they contain info that might not end up in the actual patch release - basically it's just a list that reminds me what changes I've made so far and after testing they might change again.There's couple known problems in RevDCM at the moment though they aren't game breaking. I play with RevDCM components on usually as I can live with those couple problems so I think you can try playing with them on and if you don't like them, just play the next game without them.
Scientific explained above.@Zappara, what exactly is the Scientific victory? What are you planing to do with the wool resource? I posted this earler but it was buired by the axe discussion.
I think the Light Swordsman needs a counter. How about giving the Axmen a 25% bonus against Light Swordsman. What is the purpose of the Arena? Except for its 1xp for melee units it is just like another colosseum.
Wool resource - well, it's still a mystery ie. placeholder for some changes that might appear in future versions
Arena vs. Colosseum - there has been many changes to the original setting but the original idea behind them was that Colosseum was building that provides Gladiator shows for people to keep them happy and Arena is a place where military troops train to get more experience (and some glory) without unnecessary killing.
I'll have to think about Light Swordsman, I've noticed too that it could use some better counter.
1) Not sure, haven't checked that python screen file so don't know how it's coded.Is there any way to make the resource line in F4 resource trade, two lines instead of one. Or make it horizontal scrolling. Right now alot of the resources cannot be seen because so many new ones are added in rom.
Another small thing :
The Jousting Tournament req is stable. Shouldnt it be Knights Stable instead. Once you build the knights stable you are unable to build the JT.
A third small thing :
The bakery is available with granery. When modern granary is build you are unable to build the bakery.
4th : Rocketry before Aerodynamics? Which means you have V1 rockets with doubledecked airplanes? I think it requires aerodynamics to make long distance precision rockets. Not sure though. Didnt research it. (I'm a divemaster not a rocket scientist
5th : steam and early diesel ships. There are so many of them. Half of them resembles eachother and are very close in stats/techs. How about making them ethnic diverce instead.
6th : Obsolete jewelry with mass media? (if I recall correctly). Why?
7th : Same goes for Artist Guild. Its probably the most known still existing guild in modern world.
8th : IMO the watermill is way to powerfull. It would however make sense if there was a dam graphic replacement for modern times. I've been travelling on a lot of rivers and only seen 1 or 2 real life watermills. And they were mostly museums. In RoM it is the most powerfull improvement.
just my 8 cents
2) Good point, will change it.
3) Food processing plant upgrades Bakery and it requires Modern Granary.
4) Rocketry pre-WWII and Aviation 1918-39. I know V1 comes in RoM maybe bit too early but there hasn't been any other graphics available for any missile units so I'd have to use what's available, even if that means I had to "strecth" history a bit.
5) I wanted to simulate real history with different types of ships so I rather tweak them to have different abilities than change them to ethnic units.
6) Because corporations take over jewellery trade and "buy-out" small dealers. Besides, jewellery isn't that important these days, though ladies might disagree with me now
7) In order to make room for Transhuman era buildings, something needs to go obsolete...
8) Too bad watermills don't change to Dam+power stations (graphics wise) as that's their use today and there's plenty of dams everywhere.
AI player will build the most powerful building first if it can be built in given amount of turns.
Selling obsolete buildings automatically has some problems as for example building defenses do not go obsolete even if the building goes. But I think I'll add small python change to Abandon city code - if the building is obsolete, you don't get gold (there's no value selling obsolete things). Besides, you don't sell your perfectly good Harbor (in real life) if you want to expand it to bigger port.
About the upgrade paths you suggested - I've thought about those too couple times but it would require too many changes - there's buildings that require those buildings and all those would have to be handled differently if new upgrade paths were added.
No, it doesn't work like that, it's not 10 times but +10 food added to the previous food requirement. For example if getting city from size 1 to 2 requires 20 food, now getting it from 2 to 3 requires 20+10=30 food instead of old method of 20+2=22 food. But yes, even this change limits the usefulness of Slavery as cities grow back to same size slower.
It wasn't in the above notes but the all the fighters have now 50% bonus vs. bomber units (of same time era). So fighters are now superior to bombers and bombers are still better for bombing runs.
Aren't those corporations already producing those resources?
About guilds - Vincentz made Guilds modmod already so I've been thinking that I don't need to add my own versions. I still need to test his guild modmod but if it's excellent as his other modmods, I might include it with RoM, but this means that I might have think over the early game balance - so it might actually be RoM v2.9 that includes them.
It's a bug in BtS system that I can't fix myself. I don't know if it's possible to fix it through SDK.I am also having some confusion about what the difference between
-
and
+
I think I figured it out by just applying common sens to the bonus and what the civic was all about.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
6) Because corporations take over jewellery trade and "buy-out" small dealers. Besides, jewellery isn't that important these days, though ladies might disagree with me now
I will have to disagree since making and selling jewellery is one of the ways I make a living or at least make my pension stretch
Selling obsolete buildings automatically has some problems as for example building defenses do not go obsolete even if the building goes. But I think I'll add small python change to Abandon city code - if the building is obsolete, you don't get gold (there's no value selling obsolete things). Besides, you don't sell your perfectly good Harbor (in real life) if you want to expand it to bigger port.
Actually there is a value in selling some obsolete stuff - tourism comes imediately to mind but also some people will turn almost anything into housing. The whole abandon city/sell buildings mod was to give the player some options that the AI already had. Perhaps a reduced percentage of cost if obsolete is the way to go.
I have played with Vincentz Guild mod on marathon and it does need a small bit of ballance but looks like a good addition.
5) I wanted to simulate real history with different types of ships so I rather tweak them to have different abilities than change them to ethnic units.
6) Because corporations take over jewellery trade and "buy-out" small dealers. Besides, jewellery isn't that important these days, though ladies might disagree with me now
8) Too bad watermills don't change to Dam+power stations (graphics wise) as that's their use today and there's plenty of dams everywhere.
(9) if the building is obsolete, you don't get gold
10) Besides, you don't sell your perfectly good Harbor (in real life) if you want to expand it to bigger port.
5) And I like all of them. Its soo nice with all the new ships, thats why I didnt want to cut them out. Maybe make a rock/paper/scissor system with those ships so there is an idea in having the "light" versions as well. Same goes for light/medium/heavy tanks.
6) I agree that in Europe and USA the jewelry has mostly been replaced by a watch/wedding ring type of shop, but in asia (especially in Thailand) the Gold Shops are still very important to people. You'll see 3-4 of them in any shopping district (Gold/red interior and toned glass facade). Also in the middle east. Bling Bling you know
8) my nif skills are rather limited, but I'll try removing the wheel and paint it gray/ look industrial, like what has been done with the workshop/lumbermill. Dont know where to put/define the modern graphics for improvements though.
9) That would do it for me
One of the reasons though to sell it when obsolete would be memory/speed related. As there is around 30 buildings that goes obsolete in RoM (not counting the upgrade paths), and around 300-500 cities on large/huge/giant maps. Removing them when obsolete could mean 9000-15000 obsolete buildings taking up memory would be gone. I actually felt a difference when I once in a while went on a sell obsolute building spree (But then again my computer is so under the requirements for RoM, that if I wanted to sell it, I'd have to go to an antique shop )10) Nope, agree, but if you got the money from the previous building it could represent the amount saved by upgrading rather than constructing from scratch.
The port would be cheaper to construct if it was built in an area that already had a harbour. This is however different for country to country. Some countries didnt upgrade their airport, but rather built a new commercial, and then a third international airport.
Is there any way to get multiple national wonders to work properly?
I love the idea of being able to build limited amount of f.ex. i-port and i-airport.
(plus all the manufactored resource buildings)
Anyway. FYI. I currently play a game where I'm in 1945 (computer networks). While a bit ahead of the AI (Mass transit), there hasnt been a single crash/game breaking element yet, and I play with practically every REVDCM option enabled
What surprised me was that its not all the 3 option events that are broken. Some of them (the later ones) are working fine.If they were producing them, I would not have suggested that this be fixed.
As for guilds, 2.8 or 2.9, I think they'd add a lot to the base game, especially if chained (i.e. a printing guild that requires goods only produced by other guilds, like paper, ink, etc.. with commensurate rewards for the trouble).
One other thing to think about is adding late renaissance high-end, non-sulphur archery and artillery units to go along with Heavy Swords/Pikes and Mailed Knights.
Two suggested techs:
Recurve Bow
pre-reqs: Heraldry, Invention
Unit: Greatbowman, 12 str, maybe allow it to attack weakest member of a stack or do defensive bombardment to provide a payoff for what should be an expensive dead-end tech (like Chivalry)
Ballistics
pre-req: Algebra
Required for: Artillery
Unit: Ballista, 12 str, no city attack bonus
Siege Promotion: Rangefinding: +30% accuracy
Lots of good time for these to find use when playing snail and lacking sulphur. Trebs are a little weak for defensive bombardment. Gives Algebra a little more to do as well. Not sure about the historical accuracy, however.
The early game is honestly boring ... a lot of "End Turn" just waiting for tech/build. It would be awesome to an extreme if someone could combine Stone Age with RoM ... Stone Age is actually more fun an exciting in early game with hidden-nationality land units (basically barbarian mercenaries), hunting animals that provides slight amount of resources -- and using your mercenaries to kill rival civs' hunters is a great way to get ahead.
Also, I think the Slavery Market should maybe make an improvement to slavery in a town ... if you have a Slave Market, maybe it could give something like a 25% bonus to the production yield of sacrificing slaves or something in addition to its overall production bonus (so it'd take fewer slaves to rush a building). Even just a small bonus of 10% or 15% I think would be a good idea.
Even early game, this mod really taxes my system, even early turns take several times as long as, say, Stone Age turns to process ... and before I even get to gunpowder, my system which is a decent multicore w/4 GB of RAM grinds to over thirty seconds per turn which really detracts from the MOD. I'm not sure if the accelerator mod could be incorporated into "vanilla RoM" (I understand its in a RoM mod mod) ... I know 15% isn't a lot, but I think RoM could really stand to get a speed boost from it if it works.
Also, I think the Slavery Market should maybe make an improvement to slavery in a town ... if you have a Slave Market, maybe it could give something like a 25% bonus to the production yield of sacrificing slaves or something in addition to its overall production bonus (so it'd take fewer slaves to rush a building). Even just a small bonus of 10% or 15% I think would be a good idea.
Even early game, this mod really taxes my system, even early turns take several times as long as, say, Stone Age turns to process ... and before I even get to gunpowder, my system which is a decent multicore w/4 GB of RAM grinds to over thirty seconds per turn which really detracts from the MOD. I'm not sure if the accelerator mod could be incorporated into "vanilla RoM" (I understand its in a RoM mod mod) ... I know 15% isn't a lot, but I think RoM could really stand to get a speed boost from it if it works.
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