Version 2.8 discussion

[Supercheese]

I, too, disagree with Jewellery being obsolete at Motion Pictures. It certainly plays an important role today -- perhaps it could be obsolete at some future tech like Nanoelectronics...

 

[NCC1017spock]

I, too, disagree with Jewellery being obsolete at Mass Media. It certainly plays an important role today -- perhaps it could be obsolete at some future tech like nanoelectronics...

I second that,

 

[munky]

a prior post had mentioned watermills and the fact that they really do not exist in the modern world. i agree with that and would think they become obsolete with some technological emergence.

i also would like to point out the windmill as well. the windmill like the watermill also is not in use -- however it is in use today not as a food or production maker but rather as a power provider.

maybe zappara you could consider changing a modern windmill to producing electricity (power)?

and i would like to suggest a terrain improvement (not so much a city building imho) called Solar Farm. this would function similar to a windmill, at least in my modern concept of power production only? Sid Meier's classic Alpha Centauri had these solar terraformed lands..

speaking of your quest for modern sci-fi age events, that good old Sid Meier game Alpha Centauri has one of the best tech trees i have ever seen in any game... check it out at http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Sid_Meier's_Alpha_Centauri/Technology_tree. {edit -- now that i think about it another old old school sci-fi game with great tech and is out at abandonia is Master of Orion http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/101/Master+of+Orion.html}

 

[Afforess]

I don't know if anyone noticed, I think it was the planetfall mod that had a greenhouse improvement. That could be useful.

 

[civ_king]

The early game is honestly boring ... a lot of "End Turn" just waiting for tech/build. It would be awesome to an extreme if someone could combine Stone Age with RoM ... Stone Age is actually more fun an exciting in early game with hidden-nationality land units (basically barbarian mercenaries), hunting animals that provides slight amount of resources -- and using your mercenaries to kill rival civs' hunters is a great way to get ahead.

Also, I think the Slavery Market should maybe make an improvement to slavery in a town ... if you have a Slave Market, maybe it could give something like a 25% bonus to the production yield of sacrificing slaves or something in addition to its overall production bonus (so it'd take fewer slaves to rush a building). Even just a small bonus of 10% or 15% I think would be a good idea.

Even early game, this mod really taxes my system, even early turns take several times as long as, say, Stone Age turns to process ... and before I even get to gunpowder, my system which is a decent multicore w/4 GB of RAM grinds to over thirty seconds per turn which really detracts from the MOD. I'm not sure if the accelerator mod could be incorporated into "vanilla RoM" (I understand its in a RoM mod mod) ... I know 15% isn't a lot, but I think RoM could really stand to get a speed boost from it if it works.

increase game speed by 15% adds up BIG TIME when you play Eternal, that's HOURS of time saved

 

[Afforess]

The CAR mod will be in vanilla RoM in time. Since Zappara doesn't mod the SDK, it will be as soon as the next RevDCM comes out, because that will have the CAR too. For now, if you need instant gratification, you can install my modmod.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I disagree that early game is boring. It's the time of Discovery! It's not a click for End of Turn Era.

Slavery has already been proven (in my book anyway) to make the AI wasteful and "dumb". So that's my 2nd disagree.

And a 3rd disagreement, 30 seconds wait at gunpowder age is not extreme. Not for the sheer size of this Mod on top of the core CIV4/BtS engine.

It boils down to this, are you an Action Player? or a Strategy Player?

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

I would like to see the following new buidings..

-----

Zoo
Cost: 235
Gold:+
Culture:+

Requires: Biology

Special Abilities

• +10%, +10%
• +5% with Elephant, Deer, Fur
• Can turn 1 Citizen into Scientist
• +1 from Elephant, Deer, Fur

-----

Aquarium
Cost: 235
Gold:+
Culture:+

Requires: Biology

Special Abilities

• +10%, +10%
• +5% with Whale, Fish, Clam, Shrimp, Crab
• Can turn 1 Citizen into Scientist
• +1 from Whale, Fish, Clam, Shrimp, Crab

-----

Petting Zoo
Cost: 235
Gold:+
Culture:+

Requires: Biology

Special Abilities

• +10%, +10%
• +5% with Horse, Cow, Sheep, Pig
• Can turn 1 Citizen into Scientist
• +1 from Horse, Cow, Sheep, Pig

-----

Stuff can be changed to fit better but i thought things like a Zoo or Aquarium are much needed buildings.

 

[Healz]

Australia still has windmills providing water by windpower in the outback. Maybe those more fortunate climates can obsolete them but they are still there in parts of Australia...

 

[civ_king]

Australia still has windmills providing water by windpower in the outback. Maybe those more fortunate climates can obsolete them but they are still there in parts of Australia...

Australia must be a very primitive country then

 

[Sinapus]

Australia must be a very primitive country then

I believe he specified the Outback of Australia. Which is not like the restaurant chain here in the USA.

Actually, I think windmills for water are used in some rural areas of the USA and Canada as well.

 

[Hector Alvares]

Puh what a thread......

In general I love RoM 2.71 ....only in the end of Marathon Games and with the Big Earth Map (its even not big enough for me ...I like to have an bigger Europe ...) i hate that the mod crashes so often ...that shall be fixed.

As an new feature, it will be cool to build MagLev over oceans.

 

[munky]

Australia still has windmills providing water by windpower in the outback. Maybe those more fortunate climates can obsolete them but they are still there in parts of Australia...

because we know the windmill cant make water without Jesus power

is this type of windmill actually a watermill that is taking water from a river type source and pulling out into lets say irrigable farm lands, something we see often in Africa from the Nile? this would be often called an irrigation pump (motored from anything such as wind to bicycle power) or an "irrigation water wheel". or do these actually work like a "windmill-well" where they use the windmill to turn a water drawing device from the ground? i would say the first type can be wrapped up into the irrigation system technology that is a basic terraform on a farm creation. and the second works like the "Groundwater Well" from Modern Seismology (which may be the Outback argument that Groundwater Wells are actually an ancient thing). City Planning's "Irrigation Canals" provides the spread of irrigation from farm to farm (maybe this too has a more ancient application).

the wiki on the water wheel can be seen at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_wheel. the wiki on irrigation itself comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrigation.

i would think in the terms of scarcity that the outback or very rare improvement types are not needed in CIV. we should focus more on the common usages.

zaparra (i use your name despite not knowing if this comes from a modmod because i always like to pick on the Finns if i given a chance) i see has added the "Desert Windmill" which to me is really the Modern Windmill because frankly I see them all over the midwest here in the States.

i understand that the current windmill changes in its value as more modern technologies enhance it, so the question of whether it is made obsolete or rather assimilates its features into newer technologies may be the larger challenging question that i am aiming for. if zaparra has the argument that a port doesnt need to be destroyed to make a modern port then i would say the opposite of the windmill. an ancient windmill (think current Windmill in the classic Dutch image) cannot change into a modern windmill (think Desert Windmill) but it does need to be destroyed to make the modern version of it and you cannot just change its values over time. you cannot reconfigure that ye olde Dutch style windmill into those seen across the desert with turbines inside them... i vote for a Modern Windmill, a different thing entirely in the improvements category.*

CIV in my opinion has always had that difficulty of what CIV4 addresses with Tech Diffusion -- simultaneous ancient technological achievements coinciding with their modern ones... remember in CIV 1 that Phalanx being attacked by a Battleship? So the outback's usage of an ancient windmill is concurrent to the modern wind farm version that provides power... both are called windmills yet both are entirely different.

i spout because i love engaging in the real historical accuracy of these things and not simply making fantasy, i post links to wiki cause i believe the actual coders/modmod makers always have the final say since they do all the work but this thread is the thought factory going into version 2.8 and a perfect spot for this type of discussion.

[* = upon further investigation maybe i should be focusing on the term "Wind Farm" which may be a better new improvement term rather than Modern Windmill, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_farm]

 

[Bezhukov]

because we know the windmill cant make water without Jesus power

Fighting fire with fire can on occasion be effective. Ignorance with ignorance, not so much. Pls keep your bigotry to yourself.

 

[Afforess]

because we know the windmill cant make water without Jesus power

Nothing directly can "make" anything in this universe, except for atomic colliders, nuclear bombs, and stars (and anything else that effects things on an elemental level.). Otherwise, nothing is ever "made." I believe the point was that windmills harness wind energy to spin turbine, which in turn, pump water out of deep aquifers.

 

[munky]

Fighting fire with fire can on occasion be effective. Ignorance with ignorance, not so much. Pls keep your bigotry to yourself.

looks like i missed your point but the word bigotry came into it and for that reason, i shall step aside to whatever direction you think you were going...

 

[Carwyn]

Australia still has windmills providing water by windpower in the outback. Maybe those more fortunate climates can obsolete them but they are still there in parts of Australia...

I know farmers and those that want to be "off the grid" and self sufficient use windmills for water as well as power. It's a good technology. Modern windmills are very efficient and useful. I see farms in the dry open country I live in that have picturesque old windmills still pumping water out on the range for cows. Edit: to clarify, these are windmills that draw water up from a deep well.

I'm thinking its climate and the type of land that makes them useful - dry, open, windy.

 

[munky]

Nothing directly can "make" anything in this universe, except for atomic colliders, nuclear bombs, and stars (and anything else that effects things on an elemental level.). Otherwise, nothing is ever "made." I believe the point was that windmills harness wind energy to spin turbine, which in turn, pump water out of deep aquifers.

i realize Bezhukov's silly statement was made in jest...

i realize he used the <smug> emoticon which now makes me laugh...

good one, almost made me think... how ironic, good one...

i almost went off with the real definition of the word bigotry and how wrongly you used it... but alas, i would have taken you seriously and that would have been sad.

no, good joke, appreciated humor Bezhukov, good one...

 

[munky]

I know farmers and those that want to be "off the grid" and self sufficient use windmills for water as well as power. It's a good technology. Modern windmills are very efficient and useful. I see farms in the dry open country I live in that have picturesque old windmills still pumping water out on the range for cows. Edit: to clarify, these are windmills that draw water up from a deep well.

I'm thinking its climate and the type of land that makes them useful - dry, open, windy.

understood and in no doubt acknowledging their purpose and need. i am playing the definition game. a windmill actually has different meanings. i for one think in modern terms the windmill is more of the wind farm type, more like zaparra's desert windmill. and said from afforess about the inclusion of a turbine.

that type of mill you mention above, the one off the grid, draws water and therefore is far different from the mill usage such as in Holland... as a matter of fact isnt it really a water pump driven by wind power and not a windmill at all? and the ones you quote above that are being used for power are exactly what i am asking for as a needed new version, aka the desert windmill but really a turbine electricity wind farm version. and none of those are the mill version of the windmill -- ones for grinding grain for example such as seen in Holland and what i consider a primary purpose of the current plain CIV watermill. (following this thought to its boring last drop, a watermill that makes electricity is in fact hydroelectric power and simply looks much different that its progenitor the watermill since i am thinking so much about mills).

only on a CIV forum can we expound on such details. gratis for all contributions! i am spent on this thought... seek Afforess for all rebuttals...

 

[Bezhukov]

i realize Bezhukov's silly statement was made in jest...

i realize he used the <smug> emoticon which now makes me laugh...

good one, almost made me think... how ironic, good one...

i almost went off with the real definition of the word bigotry and how wrongly you used it... but alas, i would have taken you seriously and that would have been sad.

no, good joke, appreciated humor Bezhukov, good one...

As long as you're aware that the joke's on you, too, and me as well, likely as not, then we're getting somewhere.
On the other hand, technological chauvinism and fundamentalist Christianity are not particularly highly correlated, hence my pointing out the (possible?) bigotry inherent in the connection you suggested, as it is fashionable among those most attuned to the uncouthness of such chauvinism to imagine that fundies are the root of most, if not all, evil; replacing the old nefarious Jew stereotype, or the shiftless Negro, as those have rightfully fallen out of favor. In the (boring) event, fundies are just folks too, and probably more likely to employ windmills and the like than your average enlightened thinker.