Very early barbarian attacks need to be patched

[futurehermit]

4 archers storming your/an AI capital at 3000BC is unbalanced any way you look at it. I've had an AI taken out ( = easier game!) and I've been taken out. It's pretty much unstoppable. It's unlikely you have slavery at this point and chances are you don't have archery or a military resource hooked up. So you are pretty much screwed if this happens. Some people may like losing a game before you even get started, but to lose to a random event seems to me problematic. If barbarians spawn this early then imo they should follow normal barbarian rules and not enter your cultural borders (which admittedly sometimes has happened for me--but it should happen every time imo).

Thoughts?

 

[jessiecat]

4 archers storming your/an AI capital at 3000BC is unbalanced any way you look at it. I've had an AI taken out ( = easier game!) and I've been taken out. It's pretty much unstoppable. It's unlikely you have slavery at this point and chances are you don't have archery or a military resource hooked up. So you are pretty much screwed if this happens. Some people may like losing a game before you even get started, but to lose to a random event seems to me problematic. If barbarians spawn this early then imo they should follow normal barbarian rules and not enter your cultural borders (which admittedly sometimes has happened for me--but it should happen every time imo).

Thoughts?

In Civ 3, there's various barbarian settings. But in Civ 4, you can't
have sedentary barbs. So just leave your settings at "no barbs".
Solves the problem, doesn't it?

 

[The Rook]

Totally agree with the OP. I've always considered the barbarian invasion event to be unbalanced and lame. To add further insult, you often have to deal with normal barbarians at the same time. Even if you could somehow contend with the invasion, the damage would be so crippling to your development it would be very difficult to stage a recovery.

I'm not really a great fan of random events anyway. Although my luck probably balances out over a series of games, it seldom happens on a game to game basis.

 

[hou jing]

4 archers storming your/an AI capital at 3000BC is unbalanced any way you look at it. I've had an AI taken out ( = easier game!) and I've been taken out. It's pretty much unstoppable. It's unlikely you have slavery at this point and chances are you don't have archery or a military resource hooked up. So you are pretty much screwed if this happens. Some people may like losing a game before you even get started, but to lose to a random event seems to me problematic. If barbarians spawn this early then imo they should follow normal barbarian rules and not enter your cultural borders (which admittedly sometimes has happened for me--but it should happen every time imo).

Thoughts?

What level are you playing? I've had this happen on Noble (I'm just not good enough yet to advance to a higher level), but I don't recall a barb rush at 3000 BC.

 

[futurehermit]

I play on Monarch level. I don't like playing with no barbs because it makes it too easy. As it is I think the barb activity level in BtS is too low compared to Warlords.

 

[hou jing]

I play on Monarch level. I don't like playing with no barbs because it makes it too easy. As it is I think the barb activity level in BtS is too low compared to Warlords.

I agree that the barb activity level tends to be less in BtS than in Warlords. Barb rushes can be a good thing if you've had time to establish a military for XP's, right? But, not under the situation you described in your original post. Also, I don't like the idea of eliminating barbs. Takes away from the game, IMO.

 

[JujuLautre]

Agree with Futurehermit. If I had two things I would like to be tweaked, it would be this event and the all-forest starts. All of these make me start the game again, which is not my definition of fun.

one time I had the barbarian uprising even, i had an (small) island all for myself, all my cities protected by warriors (did not need more, no opponent on my island), and only 1, yes, ONE tile not covered by my cultural influence... Of course barbarians came, just on my capital doorstep

 

[Refar]

Those super early "Uprising" events need to go away.

 

[Tatran]

Ï've seen this event several times and it always means the end of someone.
Personal, I like this event, but 2000 BC or later.
I'm also used to early barb axemen, so the barbs are a huge disappointment in BTS.

 

[futurehermit]

Yes, 2000BC or later 4 barb archers is fair game, especially on the higher levels. But 3000BC???

In addition to more barb axes, etc. I wish there were more barb ships (galleys, triremes, etc.).

 

[Slaughter]

I wish we saw more barbarian invasions in the latter games, especially by sea.

 

[pi-r8]

I've noticed that the first barbarians to show up tend to be archers, and the warriors don't show up until later. Anyone else notice this? It's really hard trying to fight off archers when all you've got is warriors.

 

[Willem]

In Civ 3, there's various barbarian settings. But in Civ 4, you can't
have sedentary barbs. So just leave your settings at "no barbs".
Solves the problem, doesn't it?

No it doesn't. He's refering to the random event that suddenly plops a half dozen Archers on your border when all you've managed to build for your capital's defense is a single Warrior. That happened to me a short while ago and when I saw that stack, I just quit the game and started a new one. There's wasn't much point in continuing against those odds.

 

[Jaybe]

I can't believe you people! Without the barb event, where would the high anxiety be that demanded you protect your citizens?

 

[PJyang]

Not only the archers uprising in 3000 BC should be fixed, but also the horse-archers random event should be somewhat changed. I got this: 4 or more horse archers appeared right outside my capital while all my axemen were marching toward someone. I whipped a spear but lost my capital, and the game. I think it's even worse than the archer thing: you play more turns, hook up copper, build up axe, and when you think your capital is secured due to fogbusting and finally pull off all the mighty axe to do an early rush, barb horse archers turn up to ruin your day.
It is ridiculus that the horse archers could appear right beside your border, where the fog of war does not exist. With their 2 movement, I doubt one could whip 2 spears(3 pops even if you can!) to counter them before they come to your city..

 

[gettingfat]

I don't think an uprise should occur right outside the cultural border. I had one incidence it took place right at the lone tile sandwiched between my 3 cities, where the cultural border of these 3 cities didn't cover. So these barb spears suddenly popped out like a bunch of ghosts out of their tombs. This event also starts happening too early. I don't think anybody playing SP will have 2-3 archers or axes parking in their capital in 3000BC.

Also, why 4 barbarians? In Civ 1 unit actually represents one troop, so 4 barbarians actually represent 4 groups of barbarians simultaneously appear right out of your border. This is just insane.

This is one of the few things I'll ever touch the World builder.

 

[IronCrown]

In my games, the early uprisings never did much harm to anyone. For some reason the barbs often scatter and wander around instead of attacking my civ or the AI. In fact it's been a long time since I lost a city to barbs, even without reloading

In a MP game I had a massive uprising at my border very early. I thought I was screwed, but the barbs just marched straight through my entire land to my neighbor which I thought was very nice of them

But they didn't attack him either but marched further, in a straight line, and disappeared somewhere. I wonder what they had in mind... maybe searching for the Holy Grail?

 

[Rince]

Not only the archers uprising in 3000 BC should be fixed, but also the horse-archers random event should be somewhat changed. I got this: 4 or more horse archers appeared right outside my capital while all my axemen were marching toward someone. I whipped a spear but lost my capital, and the game. I think it's even worse than the archer thing: you play more turns, hook up copper, build up axe, and when you think your capital is secured due to fogbusting and finally pull off all the mighty axe to do an early rush, barb horse archers turn up to ruin your day.
It is ridiculus that the horse archers could appear right beside your border, where the fog of war does not exist. With their 2 movement, I doubt one could whip 2 spears(3 pops even if you can!) to counter them before they come to your city..

I think your case is different than the ones described above. By performing an early axemen rush, you deliberatly choose to weaken your core empire. It's a risk you take, and consequently you loose some time.

As for the fogbusting, the horse archers could have assembled secretly. You could think of them as some kind of conspiration against you, which evaded the watchful eyes of your fogbusting units. Happened many times in real life I guess.

Rince

 

[jessiecat]

No it doesn't. He's refering to the random event that suddenly plops a half dozen Archers on your border when all you've managed to build for your capital's defense is a single Warrior. That happened to me a short while ago and when I saw that stack, I just quit the game and started a new one. There's wasn't much point in continuing against those odds.

Are you sure about that? Ever since I started playing custom games on BTS with no barbs
I've never had such an event. I think "no barbs" means what it says. So no uprisings, right?

 

[Nay]

Theres the Archers, theres Swordsmen and horsearchers, none of which should pose a challenge if you
.) build the great wall
.) have defense

When playing on Emperor or higher, you quickly learn to have 3+ units in your bordercities at every second of the game