Very near surprise ending...

stratozyck

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
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I fired up a Standard Continents, Monarch game last night as Hammurabi of Babylon. Four Civs were on mine.

I had horse nearby, and by a stroke of sheer luck a vilage gave me horseback riding in 2500 BC. By 1600 BC I was churning out Horse Archers in masse, with two promotions.

I cut through my entire continent, losing MAYBE 5 horse archers taking three civs. I was slowed down more by having to garrison. I was rushing my techs towards CoL and founded Conf shortly after taking the entire continent. Within 5 turns the first courthouses were being built and I was able to raise my tech slider to 10% after a few turns of zero and using Scientists to do research. In a little longer I was able to go to 30%, and every tech was easy to get. Cottages were everywhere, and I was building EVERY wonder. I had to, I was bored. I could tell this would be an easy cakewalk.

The other continent, when I found them, still had Longbowmen. I had just industrialized and founded the Mining Corps. My production was awe inspiring. Last night, when I gave up the game to go to sleep, I didn't really look forward to finishing it. I knew it would be just a matter of landing my troops on the shores to collect the capitulations.

I took the Americans and the ottomans with a handful of Infantry and arty, sweeping aside any of their units. They woulda saved production fielding workers against me instead of macemen. Monty was the last one left.

Then something happened. I let the ottomans live so as to wrap up the game quickly. They had the apostalic palace and had a vote up for diplomatic victory! My heart stopped. I thought that I would lose for sure.

The vote came 20, yes, 20 votes short. Had I not invaded and taken out some of their cities, they would have won. Despite building EVERY wonder, having four of the religions and all of their shrines, despite having every technology way before them... they would have won.

This AI is better...
 
To have a shot at that victory, the Ottomans had to plan for it early on. They spread Hinduism everywhere. Like I said, had I delayed the invasion of the other continent until I got tanks, I would have lost the game.
 
To have a shot at that victory, the Ottomans had to plan for it early on. They spread Hinduism everywhere. Like I said, had I delayed the invasion of the other continent until I got tanks, I would have lost the game.

The AI is better, but it does not plan.

To paraphrase Blake (The BTS AI Man):

The AI has zero long term goals. It makes all choices based on the the situation during their turn. That is why the AI units get vision of 4 squares ahead instead of only 1 otherwise the AI would make worse troop movement decisions.
 
The AI has zero long term goals. It makes all choices based on the the situation during their turn. That is why the AI units get vision of 4 squares ahead instead of only 1 otherwise the AI would make worse troop movement decisions.

What!?!? They cheat that much?
 
What!?!? They cheat that much?

Um...yea...? You can plan ahead, though, and it can't, or at least cant very well right now. I call it a fair trade off.
 
What!?!? They cheat that much?

Yeah... one of the big deals with BTS is that it cheats less that before. But it still has to have some cheats in order to be competitive.

The idea is this:
1) Program AI as smart as possible
2) Give AI cheats to help make up the inherent AI weaknesses.

The better you can do with 1, the less of 2 you need. But if the AI didn't have any cheats, you would win by a landslide every time and wonder why it was so easy. Is that fun?
 
My take on it is: The AI is much better at some things and dramatically worse at others.
 
The AI has to cheat to make this game entertaining. I remember how bad it was in the original Civs, at least now you really have to investigate to find it.

The AI has no strategic planning whatsoever?? I dabbled in AI programming years ago. I don't understand how with enough coding they couldn't at least give each AI a rudimentary strategic plan. Instead, the plan always seems to be to gang up on the human player. Maybe they tried that and found the only way they could make it challenging was to do the gang up thing.
 
The AI has to cheat to make this game entertaining. I remember how bad it was in the original Civs, at least now you really have to investigate to find it.

The AI has no strategic planning whatsoever?? I dabbled in AI programming years ago. I don't understand how with enough coding they couldn't at least give each AI a rudimentary strategic plan. Instead, the plan always seems to be to gang up on the human player. Maybe they tried that and found the only way they could make it challenging was to do the gang up thing.

Bah... there are many things to explain (which I'm basically parroting off of Blake's posts over at Apolypton), because the AI really has no memory of past events, it cannot make decisions based on those things (as a Human does), only on the circumstances at the present time. They have certain parameters that push AI to pursue domination, cultural and of course space victories I've heard Blake mention.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=169618

Check out that thread.
 
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