Very strange ModMod Help Request

Boshi

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
51
I've been thinking of running a face to face D&D campaign based on Fall From Heaven. I think this should work well since the world was originally a homebrewed D&D world.

What I'm planning on doing is loading up a game of Fall from Heaven and have that be the world that the players play in, as they wander around the campaign world they'll run into all of the various things on the in-game map. What I plan to do is play a few turns before each session and have that be "what will happen if the PCs do nothing" and then after each session load the game and modify things in keeping with what the PCs do (for example if the PCs kill some barbarian lizardmen themselves, I'll erase them from the game with the editor, etc. etc.).

The PCs themselves won't have any in-game representation since that they do will be represented by D&D rules, not Civ rules. I'll just edit stuff to account for PC actions and let Civ rules take care of everything else (with a little DM tweaking here and there).

To make this mod work as a setting generator for D&D here's a few things I'd like to change. I haven't done any Civ modding since Civ 2, so a bit of help with the specifics would be helpful:

-I'd like barbarians to hang onto a good chunk of the world for as long as possible. I'm thinking of doing this by turning on raging barbarians and giving the barbarians a bonus to city defense. How would I go about giving barbarians a global bonus of this type and how much of a bonus should I give them to make them difficult for the AI to dislodge from their cities but at the same time not totally invulnerable to the AI Civs?

-I'd like to slow down the spread of the elf and dwarf religions (runes and fellowship) so they don't spread all over the map. What would be a good amount to turn down the spread of these religions without completely nerfing them? Would turning off natural spread of religion entirely work at all, or would that mess up the game?

-I don't want the PCs to go off on one adventure and then return and find that the city they left has tripled in size. How much can I slow down city growth (by increasing the amount of food necessary for increased city size) and settler cost without making the game do really weird things?

-How much do I have to lower global tech costs to compensate for slower city growth so that the amount of time it takes to research each tech stays about the same as a normal Epic speed FfH game?

-Make the world as big and with as many civilizations as my computer can handle on Epic speed without it producing errors. I'll be using my company laptop (so I can transport it around for game sessions) and I'm not sure of its exact settings (the operating system is all in Korean and its a version of Vista that won't let me change the language) but it probably was the cheapest available Dell laptop for sale last fall. How big of a map can I get away with?

-I'm thinking of running the Erebus map script. Anything specific I should do with it?

-Would you recommend using Fall Further or any other game mod? Is that ModMod stable? I really don't want any messed up saved game files. Any other good ModMods that you can recommend? I don't really care about balance or playability I just want lots of flavor.

If any of this borks playability I don't really care as long as it doesn't make the AI do really weird things or makes the game break since the purpose of this mod isn't to play it :)
 
Quick/easy/cheap method of limiting city growth:

Give everyone fallow, and that way they only grow when you tell them to grow.


In fact, I might even advise that you activate the "No Settlers" gameoption so that new cities only happen where you want them to happen.


Since actual gameplay rules won't matter, the only difference in using a mod-mod will be any added Civs. Added units may have a SLIGHT effect on your world, but only vaguely, since most of the units they interact with will be custom-design to fit D&D rules and whatever role you have in mind for them anyway. In the case of Fall Further, those extra Civs include 2 new Barbarian factions, which may assist in maintaining some hefty Barbarian presence, but just using NO SETTLERS gameoption will do that fairly well to begin with.

Otherwise, not too many rules/changes in a mod-mod will have notable effect. I suppose FF's spawning on lairs throughought the game might have some impact, and modified lair results like FF or MarnokMod have would have some impact if you actually explore the lair in game to get random results for your PCs when they clear one during the PnP session.

Stronger Barbarian city defence could be tricky. You could use some python to grant them a few defensive buildings immediately upon settling a city. If you use FF you could grant all Barbarbian units a Guardsman style promotion so that they enhance city defense directly as well.



Disabling natural religion spread wouldn't likely help too much. The AI loves open borders and loves disciple units. The religion will still spread pretty quickly.

Slower tech rate is gained by adjusting the Assets/XML/GameInfo/GameSpeedInfos.xml file. Copy all research related fields from Epic into Normal and you are set.
 
-I'd like barbarians to hang onto a good chunk of the world for as long as possible. I'm thinking of doing this by turning on raging barbarians and giving the barbarians a bonus to city defense. How would I go about giving barbarians a global bonus of this type and how much of a bonus should I give them to make them difficult for the AI to dislodge from their cities but at the same time not totally invulnerable to the AI Civs?
In Civ4HandicapInfos.xml you can change the bonus against barbarians (negative values will make them tougher), it won't apply to just defense though. Since their aggressiveness is decreased once they settle cities (moreso in FfH than FF) you can set them to found cities earlier or use the barbarian world option in which case they'll be defending more than attacking. But, as Xienwolf mentioned simply turning off settlers will leave huge portions of the world under barbarian control for a while until the civs start rolling out an conquering them. If you do go with the no settler option I would suggest increasing the turn limit for barbarian cities to prevent rapid AI growth through the conquest of barbarian cities.

-I'd like to slow down the spread of the elf and dwarf religions (runes and fellowship) so they don't spread all over the map. What would be a good amount to turn down the spread of these religions without completely nerfing them? Would turning off natural spread of religion entirely work at all, or would that mess up the game?
The spread value for each religion can be defined in Civ4ReligionInfos.xml, lower numbers will result in slower spread, setting it to zero will only allow it to spread by the use of missionary type units.

-I don't want the PCs to go off on one adventure and then return and find that the city they left has tripled in size. How much can I slow down city growth (by increasing the amount of food necessary for increased city size) and settler cost without making the game do really weird things?
Neither FfH or FF modify this in GlobalDefinesAlt.xml but you can add it, I don't recal the exact names but there are two or three than control the threshold for growth, you can copy those fields from the GlobalDefines.xml file in the BTS assets folder and add them to the mod's GlobalDefinesAlt.xml.

-How much do I have to lower global tech costs to compensate for slower city growth so that the amount of time it takes to research each tech stays about the same as a normal Epic speed FfH game?
Slower city growth should have an impact on tech rates by itself. The easiest way to modify tech progression for all techs is to adjust the research percent defined by the world size in Civ4WorldInfos.xml. This value will be the cost of the tech in beakers, not the rate you gain beakers so higher numbers will slow down research.

-Make the world as big and with as many civilizations as my computer can handle on Epic speed without it producing errors. I'll be using my company laptop (so I can transport it around for game sessions) and I'm not sure of its exact settings (the operating system is all in Korean and its a version of Vista that won't let me change the language) but it probably was the cheapest available Dell laptop for sale last fall. How big of a map can I get away with?
It's not really the map size itself that cause problems so much as it is a result of so many AI controlled units (typically more on larger maps). If you can get the AI to build fewer units the performance will be substantially better. You can reduce or remove the AI bonuses in Civ4HandicapInfos.xml (or even apply penalties) or simply play at a very low difficulty level. As the 'DM' you should have no problem cracking open the world builder to add or remove units as needed anyway. To answer your original question you should be able to cram 18 civs onto a standard sized Erebus map easily enough but you won't end up with a lot of open land.

-Would you recommend using Fall Further or any other game mod? Is that ModMod stable? I really don't want any messed up saved game files. Any other good ModMods that you can recommend? I don't really care about balance or playability I just want lots of flavor.
Fall Further has been very stable for me with the last patch, but others have had issues so it's hard to say. The dungeons/lairs in FF respawn so that alone should be worthwhile as it will ensure you have a constant supply of points of interest for your PCs.

-If any of this borks playability I don't really care as long as it doesn't make the AI do really weird things or makes the game break since the purpose of this mod isn't to play it :)
If you want you can also just run a hotseat game with you controlling all of the Civs. Doing that you could even turn the barbarians off and play the Clan & Doviello as barbarians yourself. Then you can have complete control and not worry about any AI wierdness :)
 
Great, thanks for the help people. I think I'll have to lower tech costs a good bit to make up for slower population growth.

Oh if there any way to automatically give all Barbarians a guardsman promotion (or any other promotion that helps with city defense) without doing it manually? It seems that that's the only bit of Python code I'd have to deal with to get what I want.

I'm usually a very hands off DM (all my good adventures have been when it has been the players driving the action) so having a game that generates changes in the setting without my personal intervention is really appealing to me.

Either that or I can edit up a unit with high strength and 0 move and plunk one down manually in each barbarian city manually.
 
In FF it would be trivial (AutoAcquire/MustMaintain, PrereqCivilization Orc_Civ, authorize all unitcombats and the null unitcombat). You'd have to use FF anyway to enhance city defense with a unit (Citybonus, range 0, selfapply, fDefense of whatever works well)

I'd also reccomend AutoPlay so that you don't have to even control a single civilization yourself (CTRL+SHIFT+X for a single turn, or CTRL+SHIFT+Z to enter a longer time manually)
 
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