Do we know yet if vassalage is part of Civ 6? I can't remember one way or the other.
Victory Conditions
- Thread starter mudblood
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Do we know yet if vassalage is part of Civ 6? I can't remember one way or the other.
stealth_nsk
Deity
It wasn't announced. On the other hand no late-game diplomacy features like alliances were announced, so we just don't know. Some things could be deducted from leaked tech/civic trees, but I'm not sure if they are complete.
About Victory conditions:
Domination: To achieve a Domination victory, you must conquer the Capital of every other civilization. - I don't like this
Science: you must accomplish 3 major milestones:
Launch a satellite.
Land a human on the Moon.
Establish a Martian Colony. - I like this
Cultural: you must attract more Visiting Tourists to your civilization than any other civilization has Domestic Tourists at home. - I don't like this kind of tourist victory. We should have more requirements or at least different requirements for this type of victory
Religious: Your Religion must become predominant (followed by >50% cities) in every major and minor civilization. - interesting but sounds difficult
Score: If no civilization has achieved another victory at 500 turns, the civilization with the overall highest score wins. - standard and expected
I think that we should have also:
- some kind of reworked Diplomatic victory
- Old good Conquest victory
- Domination victory: for example to have certain percentage of world population, to control certain percentage of world's territory, to control some key resources, to posses or control key religious cities of 2 or 3 largest religions, etc... There is a lot of potential ideas about this type of victory, some of them I stated here...
Domination: To achieve a Domination victory, you must conquer the Capital of every other civilization. - I don't like this
Science: you must accomplish 3 major milestones:
Launch a satellite.
Land a human on the Moon.
Establish a Martian Colony. - I like this
Cultural: you must attract more Visiting Tourists to your civilization than any other civilization has Domestic Tourists at home. - I don't like this kind of tourist victory. We should have more requirements or at least different requirements for this type of victory
Religious: Your Religion must become predominant (followed by >50% cities) in every major and minor civilization. - interesting but sounds difficult
Score: If no civilization has achieved another victory at 500 turns, the civilization with the overall highest score wins. - standard and expected
I think that we should have also:
- some kind of reworked Diplomatic victory
- Old good Conquest victory
- Domination victory: for example to have certain percentage of world population, to control certain percentage of world's territory, to control some key resources, to posses or control key religious cities of 2 or 3 largest religions, etc... There is a lot of potential ideas about this type of victory, some of them I stated here...
KrikkitTwo
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They will likely bring diplo victory back in one of the expansions (They talked about wanting World Congress, but they didn't have the time to do it right)
isau
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If you lose this way, it is your fault. That is why the land tile version of the Dom victory worked so well. You had to actively prevent it.
Moreover, it created global conflict. You had to worry about every settlement the enemy made, everywhere on the globe. You had to worry about any weak players with lots of land suddenly falling to an enemy and being gobbled up. You had to worry about enemy culture spreading quickly, allowing them to gobble tiles. It was conflict everywhere, all the time.
Most of all, you had to worry about losing. Because you very well could lose if you didn't actively prevent other players from grabbing tiles.
The "take the capitals" version of the Dom victory makes things much too easy. You only have to watch your capital.
I would be okay if they had both a "take the capitals" and a different "claim x% of tiles" victory. But that tiles victory needs to be in there. It was the source of all the conflict, and also explicitly made a lot of systems worked that failed in Civ V (in particular, putting an explicit premium on going wide and a need to worry about enemies growing too big).
KrikkitTwo
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The issue is that makes it like a race, and that is already present in the science victory
Perhaps the new diplomatic victory can provide that issue.... vote by population/# cities/#tiles (include CS allies)
SupremacyKing2
Deity
I wish the game would just use the domination victory where you had to control a super majority of the land and population. This idea of conquering capitals is ridiculous. First of all, it forces the player to conquer every capital which means that even when you are completely dominating the game, you still have to attack that last capital somewhere which is very tedious. You have to keep moving units one by one even when winning is inevitable. Victories that become tedious should be avoided. Domination victory is much better because it still rewards the player that is clearly winning but without the tediousness.
Like you said, idea of conquering capitals is ridiculous. I hate tedious and pointless victory conditions...Care to explain what makes this an actual "issue" besides conflicting with your own personal interest?
Besides, it is only a race if you are completely ignoring the map, which Isau has an excellent point. There are 7 (on standard) other factions on the map for a reason, and it isn't so you can ignore everything around you, but to interact with them. If one faction is taking a lot of land/cities and approaching a win, it is only a race if you choose not to try to help stop them. You know, actually help out those Civs you have a declaration of friendship with? Send military units to help them defend in a war against the threat?
KrikkitTwo
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You interact with them because you need to 'defeat' all 7 of them militarily/culturally/or religiously...unless you are going to race them.
That said a "Diplomatic" victory that acted as domination (1 point for each of your districts, 5 points for each CS ally, must have more than X+everyone else's total votes to win) would be fine.
While having to take every capital does seem a bit gamey, I feel that it just wouldn't be a proper domination victory unless you declare war on everyone and display your superior military strength.
Having said that, the old domination mechanic was great and more akin to my playstyle. I would like to win just by spreading my nation through exploration and some conquest while still maintaining allies.
It seems the religious victory time will be kind of like that this time around, especially with Spain. You'll be able to get a win by having a wide empire with strong faith and religious pressure while conquering enemy cities with your conquistadors.
Having said that, the old domination mechanic was great and more akin to my playstyle. I would like to win just by spreading my nation through exploration and some conquest while still maintaining allies.
It seems the religious victory time will be kind of like that this time around, especially with Spain. You'll be able to get a win by having a wide empire with strong faith and religious pressure while conquering enemy cities with your conquistadors.
concerning the cultural victory:
We do know that you need to attract more foreign tourists than other civs have domestic tourists.
So unlike in civ 5, where culture and tourism was important, tourism seems to be both offense and defense in civvi. Of course, there is some speculation here, because we don't know how exactly tourism will work. But when we saw tourism (e.g. relics), it was never specified. So I guess with a larger tourism output, you are getting more foreign and domestic tourists, thus boosting your offense and defense for the cultural victory.
It's only today that I've spotted the improvement that gets unlocked with 'Radio' (tech not civic!), yes I haven't really looked at late game stuff as of now. It shows a beach chair and a sunshade (I'm going to call it 'beach'). This seems to point heavily into the direction of an improvement to generate tourism. I speculate, that the tourism output will be depending on the appeal of the tile. We also know that the national park will give tourism (is that unlocked with the natural history civic?).
Now I'm imagining a race for cultural victory, of course highly speculative. Most tiles will have districts, neighborhoods, improvements or wonders already in the late game. Now you want to boost your tourism. You build national parks and that 'beach.' Your closest opponent in the victory race is forced to do the same. One of you will eventually have to raze other improvements (or even districts?) to generate more tourism. This seems hard, but you know, if you want to win in a few turns, why do you need that holy site there? The other option is of course war, and I think we'll see more war in cultural focused games in the late game. I played many more or less completely peaceful games in Civ 5 when I went for cultural victory, I doubt that I will peacefully outnumber the other civs tourists in civvi somehow.
Also: maybe that 'beach' needs to be placed on coastal tiles? Making those more useful?
We do know that you need to attract more foreign tourists than other civs have domestic tourists.
So unlike in civ 5, where culture and tourism was important, tourism seems to be both offense and defense in civvi. Of course, there is some speculation here, because we don't know how exactly tourism will work. But when we saw tourism (e.g. relics), it was never specified. So I guess with a larger tourism output, you are getting more foreign and domestic tourists, thus boosting your offense and defense for the cultural victory.
It's only today that I've spotted the improvement that gets unlocked with 'Radio' (tech not civic!), yes I haven't really looked at late game stuff as of now. It shows a beach chair and a sunshade (I'm going to call it 'beach'). This seems to point heavily into the direction of an improvement to generate tourism. I speculate, that the tourism output will be depending on the appeal of the tile. We also know that the national park will give tourism (is that unlocked with the natural history civic?).
Now I'm imagining a race for cultural victory, of course highly speculative. Most tiles will have districts, neighborhoods, improvements or wonders already in the late game. Now you want to boost your tourism. You build national parks and that 'beach.' Your closest opponent in the victory race is forced to do the same. One of you will eventually have to raze other improvements (or even districts?) to generate more tourism. This seems hard, but you know, if you want to win in a few turns, why do you need that holy site there? The other option is of course war, and I think we'll see more war in cultural focused games in the late game. I played many more or less completely peaceful games in Civ 5 when I went for cultural victory, I doubt that I will peacefully outnumber the other civs tourists in civvi somehow.
Also: maybe that 'beach' needs to be placed on coastal tiles? Making those more useful?
RaidandTrade
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Apologies if this is answered elsewhere but if we now have Religious Victory as a possibility, does this mean it might be possible to actually get a religion on higher difficulties?
stealth_nsk
Deity
We don't know anything about higher difficulty game of Civ6 yet. We also don't know whether it's possible to control religion by conquering its holy city.
dturtle1
Prince
In regards to Domination Victory I full agree that Capitals is gamey and not a true test of military Might. However, In regards to %tiles what is stopping you from just settling in the frigid wastes to make up that last 10%. I feel Domination should something along the lines of
A) Dominant War Score.
Where you must have brokered a peace with a dominant War Score over every Civ remaining. So if a Civ is wiped out, it doesn't matter anyway
. War score could be % assets left at Declaration of Peace over the Original Assets at the beginning of the war. Something like this anyway. The idea is ask the player to bash the other players into submission though without requiring extermination. The Civ5 A.I already recognises Losing and Losing Badly, all we need to do is allow the game to track this.
B) Domination requires both Capital to be taken and your Land value would have to be 70-80% of the Total Land Value, rather than 70%-80% of the total number of tiles in the Map. I do like how the Capital forces conflict however it should require an actual domination rather than just Capital Sniping
A) Dominant War Score.
Where you must have brokered a peace with a dominant War Score over every Civ remaining. So if a Civ is wiped out, it doesn't matter anyway
. War score could be % assets left at Declaration of Peace over the Original Assets at the beginning of the war. Something like this anyway. The idea is ask the player to bash the other players into submission though without requiring extermination. The Civ5 A.I already recognises Losing and Losing Badly, all we need to do is allow the game to track this.B) Domination requires both Capital to be taken and your Land value would have to be 70-80% of the Total Land Value, rather than 70%-80% of the total number of tiles in the Map. I do like how the Capital forces conflict however it should require an actual domination rather than just Capital Sniping
There's screenshots in various threads that confirm the top half of post #83 with the minor exception of how many turns are in Civ VI on standard speed.
God of Kings
Ruler of all heads of state
I am curious to know the victory sequences and if they are civ-specific. In Civ V, the victory and defeat screens are exactly the same for any civ.
Thanks. Just found some screenshots further up this thread.
isau
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What made Civ IV's Domination Victory superior to Civ V is it explicitly rewarded tile grabbing and put an imperative on you to expand to check other players progress. It wasn't just about random tiles in the arctics--what it did was make every tile in the game useful, either for winning or putting the breaks on a potential win. Most importantly for fun factor, what it didn't do is require you to drag your units across the globe to one specific location, anywhere you could grab tiles back could work, and the conflict was everywhere, all of the time.
In Civ V, and now unfortunately VI, all of that conflict is reduced down to a handful of locations. If the AI fails to take just one of those locations, it can never win the game. In Civ V you could have a civ grab all 7 other capitals, but if they can never take yours it totally doesn't matter. They are a never a real threat.
We will see if that's different in Civ VI but I sincerely wish they had changed it back and put the pressure on again to grab tiles and race to settle the globe.
In Civ V, and now unfortunately VI, all of that conflict is reduced down to a handful of locations. If the AI fails to take just one of those locations, it can never win the game. In Civ V you could have a civ grab all 7 other capitals, but if they can never take yours it totally doesn't matter. They are a never a real threat.
We will see if that's different in Civ VI but I sincerely wish they had changed it back and put the pressure on again to grab tiles and race to settle the globe.
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