Viking scenario (planning phase)

[Babylon746]

NOTE: This is still very much in the planning phase, throwing ideas around in my head and trying to find out whether it's at all feasible to complete this within a reasonable time - I have no desire of it turning into a multi-year project.

I'm a student, studying prehistoric archaeology, and one of the courses/modules we have is a 'project'. Could be anything from an internship at a museum, to planning an exhibition, to writing field reports from an excavation, to making a package to educate school children, etc.
A couple of days ago I started playing Plotinus' excellent Rood and Dragon scenario (again), having a blast as Deira; but now the Vikings are about to arrive.
I thought: "Wouldn't it be great if there was a scenario where you could play as 'the other side', i.e. the Vikings?" Going from there, I remembered the HistoriCanada mod and thought that combining my interest in that era with my interest in Civ3 for a similar project of my own - one that, apart from giving me (and others) joy in playing, could actually give me some credits in my education.

The scenario would concentrate on the three Scandinavian civs (Denmark, Norway, Sweden) and their action during that era: Settling the North Atlantic islands, looting and eventually invading Western Europe (especially Britain & Ireland), and trading for valuable goods (especially in what's now Russia). Other civs may be unplayable and with no chance of victory, or they may get their own tech trees and victory conditions.


Timeframe
Would be approximately 700-1100 AD, starting with a 'building up' period in the 8th century before you (playing a Viking civ) go out on your conquest and trade adventures, and ending with a period of becoming centrally-governed kingdoms in the 11th century.
200 turns (each taking 2 years) is what I'm looking at right now.


Map
My ideal would be to have a map that incorporates as much as possible of the area within the red lines:

It should be possible to discover and settle Iceland, Greenland and Newfoundland (there will be luxuries like walrus tusks, dried fish etc. there, and possibly VP locations as well), but at the same time there should be room for trading expeditions to the Black Sea and Caspian Sea shores to retrieve valuable goods. Invading and settling Britain and Ireland would be the main action in between these two extremes.

Is there anything already made that covers this area? The map would probably still need some tweaking, but it would save me the time needed to build a map from scratch.


Civilizations
Obviously the three Viking civs mentioned above will be most interesting to play, and easiest to win with.
There'll be many small civs on the British Isles for the Vikings to conquer, both Anglo-Saxon and Celtic.
The Frankish Empire is about to expand eastward, leading to conflict with the Saxons.
There'll be Vends (between Elbe and Oder), West Slavs (I'll have to determine if I can call them Poland with a clear conscience) and East Slavs (Krivichi) on the southern/eastern shores of the Baltic, and nomad civs in the Russian steppes. Maybe Khazars as well, but they're first in line to be cut as I can't really figure out what they would do. Putting in some (unplayable) civs in Finland and the Baltic countries is a possibility.

To sum up:
Vikings: Denmark, Norway, Sweden
Anglo-Saxons: Wessex, Mercia, Northumbria, (Essex, East Anglia, Kent)
Celts: Powys, Gwynedd, Cornwall, Brittany, Dalriada, Picts, Northern Ireland (Ui Neill?), Southern Ireland (Eóganachta?)
Continent: Frankish Empire, Frisians, Saxons, (Italy)
Eastern Europe: Vends, West Slavs, East Slavs
Steppe: Pechenegs, Bulgars, Magyars, (Khazars, Avars)

One of these groups would have to go away (as there can only be five culture groups), I'll probably merge the Anglo-Saxons and the Celts into one 'British Islands' group. Also, some of the Celtic civs may be merged, however I want Ireland to be divided into at least two - otherwise it'll be too hard to conquer (for the AI at least).
And yes, I know that the Franks and the Saxons (or Frisians, for that matter) weren't that much alike - the Saxons and Frisians weren't Christianized, for one. But as said before, I have only 5 culture groups to make do with. Maybe that problem can solved by the Saxons and Frisians getting access to the Viking tech tree.


Victory conditions
Domination: Will be enabled, but not that easy to achieve.
Conquest: Also enabled, but near impossible.
Diplomatic: May be used, being called 'Holy Roman Emperor' - giving the Western European civs a shot at winning, and an alternative path for the Vikings when they convert to Christianity.
Space Race: I'll call this a 'North Sea Empire', requiring control of certain resources only to be found on the British Isles as well as a strong presence in the homeland.
Victory Points: There will be some VP locations at important trade centers (Hedeby, Birka, Kaupang, York, Dorestad etc.), but controlling one (or even all) of them won't be enough to win this way. You'll need to ship goods to your trade centers to get enough points. These goods would be spawned by special buildings requiring resources within city limits which can only be built in certain areas (Russia, Black Sea, North Atlantic, British Isles).
Cultural: Enabled, but probably not achievable for most civs. However, the Pecheneg steppe nomads will harass your trade routes through southern Russia and the Ukraine. They can 'enslave' defeated units, turning them into some 'trophy' they can then 'sacrifice' in their homelands for a culture boost.


Other stuff
One issue that I struggled with was how to re-create the river trade in Russia: Make the rivers navigable for ships (by creating single-tile coast 'inlets')? Pre-place roads?
Finally, I think I've come up with a solution that should work well: Pre-placed railroads (called 'navigable river') in the place of Russian rivers (and with no way to build new railroads in the game, making it require some dummy tech). Having them go all the way would turn the rivers into a network that you can just zip through Russia on - not at all what's intended.
But thankfully there were rapids, portages etc. Here the pre-placed railroads would be interrupted, slowing you down (sometimes considerably). These portages/rapids would have to be at least 2 tiles wide, otherwise you could just plop a city there and 'bridge' the un-navigable stretch.
And in the southern steppes, the nomads would be lurking at these places (if the AI is smart enough), ready to defeat your units and carry away trophies from the skirmish.


Call for help
I haven't created a scenario (on this scale) before, so I have little idea how much time would be needed (probably way more than I think) or indeed how things are done. I've looked at other scenarios in the editor, giving me a good idea of editing in general, but having some step-by-step 'how-to's would help considerably.
- How do I set up separate tech trees?
- If there is no map of the area I need: How do I turn a map (like the one above) into a Civ3 map (with the grid, that looks rather hard to me)?
- What is the best way to make the AI act in the way I want them to - Vikings to settle the islands, invade Britain, and trade in Russia; Franks to expand eastward; Steppe nomads to pounce on Viking traders for 'trophies' to 'sacrifice' etc.?
- Probably many more questions that I haven't even thought about yet


Any help will be welcome.

 

[Kyriakos]

No Varangian guard then? :/

I could help with a new viking city set i guess.

 

[Babylon746]

No Varangian guard then? :/

Well, if you have a good idea on how to implement them, without blowing the whole thing out of proportions, come with it.
They may be in as some improvement/small wonder that gives the Vikings something after researching "Contact with Miklagard" (haven't found out what exactly).

 

[Kyriakos]

Miklagaard sounds cool, didn't know of that name for Constantinople.

Miklagaard has been our home
For twenty years or more
We've lent our axes, spears and swords
In service of the emperor

We are loyal warriors
That's the oath we gave
To protect the emperor
Even to a violent grave

OurAnnotate loyalty was always firm
We kept our given word
On these southern battlefields
Our northern war cries roared

Battles have been fought
Many gave their lives
But all who died by axe and sword
Were called to hall up high

Our time here is now at end
Can't help but reminisce
A cold spring day, so long ago
When we set out to sea

We set out from Svitjod's shores
With dreams of fame and gold
And the work of weaving Norns
Was unknown

We were loyal warriors
That's the oath we gave
To protect the emperor
Even to the grave

It's time to take farewell
We have been resolved
From the sacred oath we gave
It's time to go back home

Our time here is now at end
Our memories will stay
Of Miklagard, our southern home
Until the end of days

We set out from Svitjod's shores
With honor and rewards
We return back home
We return back home
With honor and rewards
We return back home

We return, we return
We return back home
We return, we return
We return back home

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Just a Russian trade idea, don't know if it does what you want, but try using "airports" - i.e. give the Russians a building unique to them that has the airport flag in the editor, thus allowing trade whether other cities are connected by land or sea or not.

If it's of interest, I'll give you a heads up on how to make it a unique building if you're not sure how to do it.

 

[Babylon746]

Just a Russian trade idea, don't know if it does what you want, but try using "airports" - i.e. give the Russians a building unique to them that has the airport flag in the editor, thus allowing trade whether other cities are connected by land or sea or not.

If it's of interest, I'll give you a heads up on how to make it a unique building if you're not sure how to do it.

A good idea, but that's not really what I want. I want the Vikings to be able to cross Russia fast (but not too fast) en route to the trade areas at the Black/Caspian Sea - not the Russians.

I think I know out how to do unique buildings - making it require an untradeable, non-era tech (or a tech that requires said tech) should be enough, right?
There will be some of those in the scenario, unique to the different culture groups/tech trees.


Can someone with a grasp of British history advise me on which Anglo-Saxon/Celtic civs I should include? The three big Anglo-Saxons (Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex) are a given, but what about the smaller Anglo-Saxon realms on the east coast? And which Celtic civs were strong/important throughout the entire timeframe (700-1100), or most of it?

 

[Balam-Agab]

I was actually planning to make something similar a while back but it never really got past the planning stage. I can post some of the ideas I had, once i find the notes, if you want to look at them.

That said, a few things off the top of my head...

1. Don't worry too much about the culture groups, they only really affect the building and city graphics, so make as many tech trees and things as work for the gameplay.
2. Here is a map that may work with some tweaking, although that is likely too many civs to fit on a Britain so small.
3. Remember, railroads can be razed, and the AI likes to do so if they are in enemy territory.

 

[Babylon746]

1. Don't worry too much about the culture groups, they only really affect the building and city graphics, so make as many tech trees and things as work for the gameplay.

Alright, no worries in putting the Franks in one group with the Saxons then.

2. Here is a map that may work with some tweaking, although that is likely too many civs to fit on a Britain so small.

Yeah, Britain is rather small (as are the Scandinavian homelands, at least Denmark).
Maybe it's too big a mouthful to put all three strands (colonizing Iceland etc., invading Britain, trading in the East) into one scenario - but if they're split up, each of them would get rather one-dimensional in my head. The great thing about Civ3 is that there are multiple roads to victory.

3. Remember, railroads can be razed, and the AI likes to do so if they are in enemy territory.

Yeah, that sucks. Much of Russia could be made unsettlable, but it would still be a problem if some part of the 'river system' is razed. I suppose it could be explained as sinking blockships (à la Skuldelev) or so.

 

[Ozymandias]

Can someone with a grasp of British history advise me on which Anglo-Saxon/Celtic civs I should include? The three big Anglo-Saxons (Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex) are a given, but what about the smaller Anglo-Saxon realms on the east coast? And which Celtic civs were strong/important throughout the entire timeframe (700-1100), or most of it?

Seven Kingdoms in that period: Kent, Essex (East Saxons), Sussex (South Saxons), Wessex (West Saxons), Mercia (Angles), Northumbria (Angles) and East Anglia.

 

[Wolfhart]

3. Remember, railroads can be razed, and the AI likes to do so if they are in enemy territory.

I believe the only way to avoid this is to uncheck Pillage for all units in the editor.

 

[Takhisis]

Going Viking Scenario: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89569

Old but serviceable like its maker.

 

[timerover51]

Looking at Oz's map, I keep thinking that the Welsh should be considered, possibly as a large group of Barbarians of the same tribe. And the Picts in Scotland managed not to be taken over by the Vikings, along with doing a lot of trading in the area of Scotland, Ireland, Britain, and the North Sea. You also apparently had settlers from Ireland in Iceland prior to the Vikings arriving there, and those may have made it as far as Greenland. The hide curragh was quite capable of some ocean voyages, as demonstrated by Tim Severin with his Brendan Voyage.

 

[nick0515]

Looking at Oz's map, I keep thinking that the Welsh should be considered, possibly as a large group of Barbarians of the same tribe.

My vote would be for the separate Welsh Kingdoms planned at present. The Welsh (British) were no more a united people at this point in history than the Anglo-Saxons who surplanted them in the eastern half of Britain.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I have an even better suggestion for the Russian river trade problem:

Remodel an unused terrain (such as, I imagine, the Jungle terrain) to represent the Russian river tiles.

If you set the movement cost for the Jungle terrain to 0 in the editor, then units crossing it will act like it is a railroad tile (so long as it isn't roaded - set the value of commerce gained from roading the tile to 0 and it won't be able to be roaded - of course cities can still be connected by roading around the rivers). Of course grasslands and the like can break up the flow, provide city spots etc. As an added bonus, if you want any units to not gain any benefit from using the rivers (such as the civs in Russia whom you previously mentioned), just make their units ignore the movement costs for the jungle tile. They will then treat it like grassland instead of railroads.

As for the culture groups on Britain - why not put the Anglo-Saxons in the Continental culture group along with the Saxons and the Frisians?

 

[Takhisis]

The navigable rivers must have weirs that you have to control in order to pass.

How important will Tmutorokan be? How will you represent the Khazar, Magyar and Patzinak horsemen? Nomads can't have that many cities perhaps the Steppe could be unsettlable.

 

[Babylon746]

Sorry for disappearing, but my PC broke down. After 6+ years of service, it wasn't unexpected.
Now on a brand new machine.

I have an even better suggestion for the Russian river trade problem:

Remodel an unused terrain (such as, I imagine, the Jungle terrain) to represent the Russian river tiles.

If you set the movement cost for the Jungle terrain to 0 in the editor, then units crossing it will act like it is a railroad tile (so long as it isn't roaded - set the value of commerce gained from roading the tile to 0 and it won't be able to be roaded - of course cities can still be connected by roading around the rivers). Of course grasslands and the like can break up the flow, provide city spots etc. As an added bonus, if you want any units to not gain any benefit from using the rivers (such as the civs in Russia whom you previously mentioned), just make their units ignore the movement costs for the jungle tile. They will then treat it like grassland instead of railroads.

As for the culture groups on Britain - why not put the Anglo-Saxons in the Continental culture group along with the Saxons and the Frisians?

Brilliant idea for the Russian rivers, and it sounds like it would do exactly what I want it to. It would also eliminate the possibility of plopping a city in a 1-tile 'rapid' to connect the 'railroads' - as the terrain movement would still apply.
Great.

Haven't gotten much further with the planning (obviously, without a computer), and now I first have to see if Civ3 runs on Windows 8.

How important will Tmutorokan be? How will you represent the Khazar, Magyar and Patzinak horsemen? Nomads can't have that many cities perhaps the Steppe could be unsettlable.

I haven't given that part much thought yet, to be honest.

 

[Erebras]

Things to consider:

* You have five culture groups, plus the barbarians, to dictate architecture (city graphics) and basic units. So you have six culture groups to work with, if necessary.
* I seem to recall a utility many years ago that converted an image to map. It may still be in the Utilities forum.
* Map creation is not always on a "one-for-one" basis. Many modders have discovered the need to expand or inflate certain areas of the map to make it more game-friendly and usable, but geographically "inaccurate."
* You need not use all four eras of the techtree. With clever planning, you can make four distinct techtrees for the different peoples of the mod/scenario. (See the Conquests that came with the game for inspiration.) Keep in mind that having less than all four eras lessens the benefit of the Scientific civilization strength.
* Plan what constitutes a Golden Age, and who would get it through victory in battle versus getting it through building great wonders.
* Who will be the barbarians of the game? They'll have hordes of horsemen (or whatever occupies the Barbarian Unit 2 slot in General Settings) when there's a massive uprising, and they'll have barbarian ships, too, when someone researches Mapmaking(?). The barbarians and goody huts share the same tribe names.
* What resources will be in the game? Do you need oil, coal, uranium, aluminum...?
* What is the timeframe going to be? If it's a short historical period, each turn can constitute a year, a month, or a week. 540 turns works out to 540 year-turns, 45 years of month-turns, or a little over a decade of week-turns.
* What worker jobs are available? Will they be able to clearcut large tracts of land? Drain swamps? Build barricades? Airports? Radar Towers? Disable or reconfigure the jobs you don't think are appropriate, but realize that ALL worker jobs must be available to a worker for the AI strategy to function.

 

[Erebras]

Vinland
Jomsviking
Jorvik
Bog Iron
Great Heathen Army
Normandy
Duchy of Apulia
Tarragona
Calabria
Salerno Tradition/Gargano Tradition
Kingdom of the Canary Islands
Karvi/Snekkja/Skeid/Drakkar/Lodya(Monoxile)
Rus' (people)
Danelaw
Burghal Hidage

 

[Erebras]

How important will Tmutorokan be? How will you represent the Khazar, Magyar and Patzinak horsemen? Nomads can't have that many cities perhaps the Steppe could be unsettlable.

Someone noted that with my map of Middle-Earth that all that land in the east would unbalance the game. I hadn't developed the idea much further, but I mentioned that for LotR, most cities in Middle-Earth were on hills, and I considered that perhaps only hills could be settled in a LotR scenario, thus limiting sprawl. The same could be said of the Khazar, Magyar, and Patzinak. If preplacing city-sites or settle-able terrain isn't your thing, make steppe terrain like desert or tundra or with limited benefit from irrigation. You could end up with many steppe villages but no true steppe metros. (Just because we in the 21st century know grassland converts to farmland doesn't mean the Turkic hordes were capable of large-scale agribusiness during the Dark Ages.)

 

[Takhisis]

Hmmm, I think empty spaces (with colonies, maybe) would be better.