Vokarya's Workshop: Wonders

[Vokarya]

I started working on the National Wonders a bit. Here's the first ones I have. Remember, this is scaled by map size, so you are looking at building 4 of the prerequisite building on a Standard map to unlock the NW. (That is scaled down from BTS. I remember 5 buildings being necessary to unlock National Wonders on Small maps.)

Amusement Park counts Hotels. I couldn't find anything better. City Park is parallel to Amusement Park and would add an extra tech prerequisite (Civil Engineering).

Computer Center counts Network Nodes, but this is with the caveat that Network Node is pushed back to Advanced Computers.

Courier System counts Stables. The concern I have here is that you may get locked out when Stables upgrade to Knight's Stables, but you can put off Stirrup until you need it for Chivalry. I thought there was a fix in place for this, but I am not sure if it works. An alternative would be to move the Courier System up to Monarchy + Horse Breeding and count Caravanserais instead.

 

[<Nexus>]

Courier System counts Stables. The concern I have here is that you may get locked out when Stables upgrade to Knight's Stables, but you can put off Stirrup until you need it for Chivalry. I thought there was a fix in place for this, but I am not sure if it works. An alternative would be to move the Courier System up to Monarchy + Horse Breeding and count Caravanserais instead.

Do we really want this one to have extra requirements? I can imagine Courier System without horses (I remember some Indians had runners and can imagine other ways to transfer messages). Caravanserai is just not okay to me.

Amusement Park counts Hotels. I couldn't find anything better. City Park is parallel to Amusement Park and would add an extra tech prerequisite (Civil Engineering).

City Park sounds better. Can't we move it to the same tech as Amusement Park?

 

[Vokarya]

Do we really want this one to have extra requirements? I can imagine Courier System without horses (I remember some Indians had runners and can imagine other ways to transfer messages). Caravanserai is just not okay to me.

I'm trying to be consistent with National Wonders. If they don't have some kind of special requirement or are a Craft wonder, then they get a building requirement. School of Scribes might also work.

City Park sounds better. Can't we move it to the same tech as Amusement Park?

Amusement Park is at Psychology. I'm thinking Biology would work better for City Park, because then we could use it to lead into National Park as well. National Park doesn't have any building requirements either.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

City parks counted towards then National park unlocking sound logical. Local population (city) having recreational green spaces, wanting a national reserve.

School of scribes for national courier system, makes sense, as you need to write to transmit messages between cities. Horses/Stables, what if you left with no horses in empire, I often see/have it happen that an empire won't have horses, even though it may be quite large.

Schools of scribes, give equal access to all. Then covers the horse couriers, runners, and mail via ships.

 

[<Nexus>]

I'm trying to be consistent with National Wonders. If they don't have some kind of special requirement or are a Craft wonder, then they get a building requirement. School of Scribes might also work.

Amusement Park is at Psychology. I'm thinking Biology would work better for City Park, because then we could use it to lead into National Park as well. National Park doesn't have any building requirements either.

This sounds perfect.

 

[Vokarya]

I had to think about what I wanted to do for the Masters Hall National Wonders: Crafts Guild Hall, Servants Guild Hall, and Victuallers Guild Hall. I don't want them treated any differently than other National Wonders, as they are useful even if you aren't trying to found a Guild. I also think that buildings should come earlier on the Tech Tree for the 3 Masters Halls, while the 15 Guild Headquarters buildings get later requirements. So this is what I settled on:

• Crafts Guild Hall counts Forges.
• Servants Guild Hall counts Courthouses.
• Victuallers Guild Hall counts Taverns.

These are all Classical Era buildings, so there is a very good chance you will have enough buildings of these built by the time you reach Guilds tech, but if you haven't been investing in buildings, you will have to stop for a moment.

Also, some tweaks to the building requirements for the actual Guildhalls.

• Blacksmiths Guild counts Armourers instead of Forges. Blacksmiths Guild is a powerful Guild (it's my #1 guild to found) and so requiring Armourers, which you wouldn't necessarily build in all cities since they provide unhealth and only benefit military production (Armourer lost its Engineer slot once Engineers shifted to the Carpenter line), seems appropriate. I also don't want Crafts Guild Hall and Blacksmiths Guild sharing the same building requirement.
  
• Drapers Guild counts Tailors instead of Bazaars. Bazaars are Ancient Era and so are likely to be built everywhere by the time the Medieval Era rolls around. Tailor is more appropriate.
  
• Equestrians Guild counts Caravanserais. Equestrians Guild was the only guild without a building requirement. Stables/Knight's Stables is NOT appropriate here, because the primary purpose of Equestrians Guild is to provide Horse resources for a civilization. Stables require Horse or Ivory (plus Iron for Knight's Stables), so the only civilization that could really benefit from Equestrians Guild would be a civilization that had Ivory and no Horse. This is too narrow a condition.
  
• Fishmongers Guild counts Ports instead of Fishmonger's Huts. Fishmonger's Hut is another Ancient Era building and I think Port is better here.

 

[Vokarya]

I really want to finish this NW project. So here's some more proposals.

Deep Core Mine: Counts Utility Fogs. There aren't really more appropriate buildings. I don't want to use Nanofactory because it upgrades to Omnifactory.

Flak Tower: Counts Gun Turrets. I think this one is fairly straightforward.

Hermitage: Counts Art Galleries. I'm surprised this one hadn't been done already. It totally fits the pattern.

Ironworks: Counts Foundries. Foundries are not an easy building to build, as they use up a citizen. Ironworks is pretty powerful. In BTS, Ironworks counts Forges, but I think those are trivial by the late Renaissance.

Labor Union: Counts Factories. I think this one is fairly self-explanatory.

 

[Rezca]

Everything looks good to me there.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Personally I don't like the utility fog for deep core mines. By that stage, I've built the Continental wide Fusion power plant, and have no need for utility fogs, which have a small chance of a nuclear melt down.

I thought of Modern mines being counted, but they aren't a building.

Anyway by that time, my top cities are having Base hammer counts in the >600, some as high as 1,000, but that might be due to building bonuses.

Maybe leave it as singular national wonder, as it applies to one city only.

Maybe you can't link EVERY national wonder to building requirements, such as Mt Rushmore, only have a tech.

Every thing else seems logical and achievable.

 

[<Nexus>]

I had to think about what I wanted to do for the Masters Hall National Wonders: Crafts Guild Hall, Servants Guild Hall, and Victuallers Guild Hall. I don't want them treated any differently than other National Wonders, as they are useful even if you aren't trying to found a Guild. I also think that buildings should come earlier on the Tech Tree for the 3 Masters Halls, while the 15 Guild Headquarters buildings get later requirements. So this is what I settled on:

• Crafts Guild Hall counts Forges.
• Servants Guild Hall counts Courthouses.
• Victuallers Guild Hall counts Taverns.

These are all Classical Era buildings, so there is a very good chance you will have enough buildings of these built by the time you reach Guilds tech, but if you haven't been investing in buildings, you will have to stop for a moment.

Also, some tweaks to the building requirements for the actual Guildhalls.

• Blacksmiths Guild counts Armourers instead of Forges. Blacksmiths Guild is a powerful Guild (it's my #1 guild to found) and so requiring Armourers, which you wouldn't necessarily build in all cities since they provide unhealth and only benefit military production (Armourer lost its Engineer slot once Engineers shifted to the Carpenter line), seems appropriate. I also don't want Crafts Guild Hall and Blacksmiths Guild sharing the same building requirement.
  
• Drapers Guild counts Tailors instead of Bazaars. Bazaars are Ancient Era and so are likely to be built everywhere by the time the Medieval Era rolls around. Tailor is more appropriate.
  
• Equestrians Guild counts Caravanserais. Equestrians Guild was the only guild without a building requirement. Stables/Knight's Stables is NOT appropriate here, because the primary purpose of Equestrians Guild is to provide Horse resources for a civilization. Stables require Horse or Ivory (plus Iron for Knight's Stables), so the only civilization that could really benefit from Equestrians Guild would be a civilization that had Ivory and no Horse. This is too narrow a condition.
  
• Fishmongers Guild counts Ports instead of Fishmonger's Huts. Fishmonger's Hut is another Ancient Era building and I think Port is better here.

Will it have any affect on Corporation Auto-funding option?

 

[Vokarya]

Will it have any affect on Corporation Auto-funding option?

If you're using Realistic Corporations and corporation auto-founding, then the Masters Halls cannot be built at all. The game skips over them. So whatever conditions for auto-founding Corporations still apply. Changing the buildings required for a Guild Hall would have only minor effects at best.

 

[Vokarya]

Moai Statues and Mt. Rushmore are the next two National Wonders on my list.

I do not want to make either of them World Wonders. Moai Statues has an effect that I do not want to elevate to WW status. Mt. Rushmore has a place for reducing War Weariness.

This is what I am considering: Moai Statues counts Myth of the Sea. This would require you to have multiple coastal cities. I would probably scale the number down; a base of 3 means you would have to have 7 coastal cities on Gigantic, which is too much. A base of 2 means 5 cities. Myth of the Sea is pretty cheap once you get established a little and have Workers, so I think this might be fair.

Mt. Rushmore does not have any appropriate buildings to key to it. Monument is the best I could think of, but it is pretty trivial by the time Mt. Rushmore shows up. Instead, I would like to have Mt. Rushmore require a Peak in city vicinity. This is a little nod to plausibility. A city on a 1-tile island wouldn't have a mountain to carve.

 

[<Nexus>]

Mt. Rushmore: Good

Moai Statues: If it will be Myth of the Sea than you no longer have the choice in your coastal cities which Myth to build... unless you have big empire early. How about just needing a MotS in the city you want to build?

 

[Vokarya]

Moai Statues: If it will be Myth of the Sea than you no longer have the choice in your coastal cities which Myth to build... unless you have big empire early. How about just needing a MotS in the city you want to build?

That doesn't fit the pattern. And there isn't any space between 1 <prereqbuilding> and 2 <prereqbuilding>; if I set it to 1, you only have to build 2 on Huge and larger, but if I set to 2, then you get to 5 on Gigantic. I want these requirements to be more than just 1 building, and there is no way to do a non-scaling building count unless you use a National Wonder.

 

[Vokarya]

I found there is a tag that prevents prerequisite building counts from scaling with map size. It is <bForceNoPrerequisiteScaling>. So I think that if Moai Statues requires 3 Myth of the Sea regardless of map size, that would be fair. Myth of the Sea is the food myth now, so I don't think it's that prohibitive to require it in a few cities.

 

[Vokarya]

The National Weather Service is a Wonder that I think needs to be completely rewritten. Its current effect is +15% science, 4 Scientist slots, AND 2 free Scientists. When I rebalanced specialist slots from National Wonders, I tried to do 7 slots total for each Specialist type. Scientists get 2 from Academy, 3 from Oxford University, and 2 from Deep Space Research Institute. I left the NWS alone because I didn't quite know what to do with it. Is there anything that anyone can think of that might work?

 

[Rezca]

The National Weather Service is a Wonder that I think needs to be completely rewritten. Its current effect is +15% science, 4 Scientist slots, AND 2 free Scientists. When I rebalanced specialist slots from National Wonders, I tried to do 7 slots total for each Specialist type. Scientists get 2 from Academy, 3 from Oxford University, and 2 from Deep Space Research Institute. I left the NWS alone because I didn't quite know what to do with it. Is there anything that anyone can think of that might work?

Off the top of my head... Is there any way the presence of a building can disable the triggering of a specific event for its owner? Namely, having the NWS would disable the triggering of Severe Storms in the player's borders and the "A ship has sunk during a storm at sea" event.

 

[Vokarya]

Off the top of my head... Is there any way the presence of a building can disable the triggering of a specific event for its owner? Namely, having the NWS would disable the triggering of Severe Storms in the player's borders and the "A ship has sunk during a storm at sea" event.

That can be done with Python callbacks, but I don't think it's enough, especially if No Events is turned on.

 

[Rezca]

That can be done with Python callbacks, but I don't think it's enough, especially if No Events is turned on.

True..... But having it there as a minor point anyway might be acceptable at least to help set it apart rather than being its defining feature.


What effects are possible on national/wonders currently? Are there any that are rarely used that might be appropriate here?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

What if it granted some promotion or XP to units? Maybe especially air and naval units?