Vote for Sid Meier's Civilization I and II (MGE & Test of Time) to be added to GoG

I vote against because then civilization 1 abadon ware would become illegal/pulled from websites.

The best things in life are free.

Every person on the planet should be able to try out civilization 1 and see what a great game it is !

If tastes like more buy the bigger versions ! ;)

I do support a re-make of civilization 1 though, in 2D with fancy distance field rendering technology for crystal clear up scaling ! =D

I also think they already earned enough from civilization 1 to 6 versions out there, stop being greedy ! =D
I don't mean to be pedanitc, but I'm pretty sure that abandonware is always illegal.
 
I don't mean to be pedanitc, but I'm pretty sure that abandonware is always illegal.
That's up to a judge to decide, if it ever goes to court, must be somebody there to go to court, plus have a good story where it can be purchased legally, otherwise what is the point ? ;)

It's probably something like copieing a house/architecture from 2000 years ago ?! Very unlikely that any family members can defend that copyright lol... maybe the state lol... but maybe they don't have the right anyway ! LOL. Plus copyrights expire anyway... civ1 is old, but not yet that old ! ;)
 
That's up to a judge to decide, if it ever goes to court, must be somebody there to go to court, plus have a good story where it can be purchased legally, otherwise what is the point ? ;)

It's probably something like copieing a house/architecture from 2000 years ago ?! Very unlikely that any family members can defend that copyright lol... maybe the state lol... but maybe they don't have the right anyway ! LOL. Plus copyrights expire anyway... civ1 is old, but not yet that old ! ;)
Still, I feel that opposing a possible official re-release just to keep an abandonware version up is not a good idea.
 
Agreed, plus legalities of abandonware sites (who's links are not permitted on CFC so our stance is clear) aside, the bigger point that pops into my head is that total people using abandonware sites versus total people using digital stores like Steam and GoG to buy old games is not even a close comparison. Probably because the common gamer doesn't knows about warez sites or avoids out of fear of viruses, spam and dodgyness (whether that be right or wrong). Either way.. Civ1&2 communities are pretty quiet these days and that's due to both time since being for sale in the 90s and current availability.

So sacrificing availability to the masses to please the few who use those sites is just not right. Getting the games back out there into stores injects new & returning players back into the communities again helping this place! THAT is the reason I'm doing this, I don't need the games in stores for myself, I already have them, so I'm doing this to right a wrong and help the community I care about regrow. And for those that can't see past their own preferences (and I've had plenty of those comments across social media sadly) a larger community means more mods, more scenarios, more fun discussions which then increases your enjoyment too. So in the end everybody wins... you just have to see the bigger picture.

Plus I wouldn't worry... because most of those abandonware sites are soooo legal and conscious about breaking laws (that was sarcasm) they've still got plenty of old games for download that are being sold in stores these days (eg you can still find Sid Meier's Colonization and Master of Magic on nearly every abandonware site these days despite them being rescued from exile and put on Steam and GoG) because the license holders did not go after them (because of the above point about the stores vs warez user totals not being comparable and big enough to warrant a threat). This reason this thread exists is because 2K don't care enough to re-release the games, so I think it's safe to say that even if someone like GoG or Firaxis or someone else successfully pushes 2K to release these games they are not going to care enough to go chase after abandonware sites hosting Civ1&2 meaning nothing will change for warez site users but everything will change for every one else.
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Agreed, plus legalities of abandonware sites (who's links are not permitted on CFC so our stance is clear) aside, the bigger point that pops into my head is that total people using abandonware sites versus total people using digital stores like steam and GoG to buy old games is not even a close comparison. Probably because the common gamer doesn't knows about warez sites or avoids out of fear of viruses, spam and dodgyness (whether that be right or wrong). Either way.. Civ1&2 communities are pretty quiet these days and that's due to both time since being for sale in the 90s and current availability.

So sacrificing availability to the masses to please the few who use those sites is just not right. Getting the games back out there into stores injects new & returning players back into the communities again helping this place! THAT is the reason I'm doing this, I don't need the games in stores for myself, I already have them, so I'm doing this to right a wrong and help the community I care about regrow. And for those that can't see past their own preferences (and I've had plenty of those comments across social media sadly) a larger community means more mods, more scenarios, more fun discussions which then increases your enjoyment too. So in the end everybody wins... you just have to see the bigger picture.

Plus I wouldn't worry... because most of those abandonware sites are soooo legal and conscious about breaking laws (that was sarcasm) they've still got plenty of old games for download that are being sold in stores these days (eg you can find Sid Meier's Colonization and Master of Magic on nearly every abandonware site still these days despite them being rescued from exile and put on steam and gog) because the license holders did not go after them (because of the above point about the stores vx warez user totals not being comparable and big enough to warrant a threat). This reason this thread exists is because 2K don't care enough to re-release the games, so I think it's safe to say that even if someone like GoG or Firaxis or someone else successfully pushes 2K to release these games they are not going to care enough to go chase after abandonware sites hosting Civ1&2.
Plus official availability is important for historic preservation reasons. CIV I and II are landmark titles since they basically invented the 4X genre along with Master of Orion, so it's important they they're officially available rather than only being available from warez sites.
 
Interesting development: Today Atari announced that it has acquired more than 100 retro titles from the 80s and 90s, from Accolade, Infogrames, and most importantly Microprose. A few names of titles are in the article, but neither Civ1 nor Civ2 are among them, but according to the article this deal "includes groundbreaking and award-winning titles from Accolade, Infogrames, and Microprose" . So... who knows...?
 
Thanks for sharing this news The_J that is very interesting. Also interesting that it says they acquired Nightdive who with Retroism re-released Sid Meier's Colonization. Retroism specialise in resurrecting old Microprose titles (to the point of saying it on their website) but have gone quiet since 2020 so I wonder if Atari got the Microprose stuff back that they had too. Knowing our luck it probably is just all the old Microprose war games titles and none of the later good stuff like Civilization, Colonization and their excellent Star Trek games eg Final Unity & Birth of The Federation are 2 of my fav trek games ever made but are stuck in limbo as the Trek licence complicates thing ever more!
 
Interesting development: Today Atari announced that it has acquired more than 100 retro titles from the 80s and 90s, from Accolade, Infogrames, and most importantly Microprose. A few names of titles are in the article, but neither Civ1 nor Civ2 are among them, but according to the article this deal "includes groundbreaking and award-winning titles from Accolade, Infogrames, and Microprose" . So... who knows...?
Interesting indeed. The exit from presumable copyright hell can be good for Civ 1, as it was good for original Colonization, which is now on GoG and Steam and have got some new players because of that. It cannot even be "reforged" in any way, because it's just dosbox. Well, lately some companies start to censor emulated ROMs, so who knows. Anyway, Civ 1 is so harmless. Yes, there's Stalin and Mao here, but game never took itself too seriously.
 
Did a followup email to all the organisations I've previous emailed last year just for the hell of it as it can't hurt the cause. I've also heard through the grape vine that Firaxis are aware of the issue (as I'm not the first to ask) but the decision is in 2K's hands.

Meanwhile I was reading a recent issue of Retro Gamer magazine and they did a interview with some of the main GoG people and there was an interesting line (annoyingly split across 2 pages so I've had to stitch these together lol) from Marcin Paczynski saying "If a game has more than 300 votes then you can be certain we have worked on trying to get it.". I find only 300 votes a bit hard to believe but whatever the real number is it's probably safe to say GoG have tried to look into the Civ1 & Civ2 situation as well when you consider we've got 2 Civ vote threads (links in top post) with around 10k votes and a bunch of other ones in the 2-5k range it so all together we've got tens of thousands of votes. Nevertheless I might chuck their business emails some messages too. More votes will of course push GoG into pestering 2K so hopefully fans will keep having their say in those vote threads and the numbers will keep climbing!

David Lagettie owns MicroProse and they are publishing smaller wargames and simulator types. It's possible they still have the distribution rights to Civ I. Every time I see a mention of when Take Two acquired old civ properties the list always starts with Civ 3. No idea about II.



Since their focus is on making future franchises, they may not be thinking about the nickels and dimes they could get from gog. Or they may not have the rights. :dunno: Maybe worth a try.


email: innovation@microprose.co.uk
 
Cheers mate I'll do a 'email run' on them in the near future too. However yeah 'new Microprose' are probably powerless and don't have the early Civ stuff sadly. But if they've got a good relationship with Atari and 2K then you never know.

For those who read my giant pitch section (thank you lol) talking about the technical hurdles you would have seen that while CivWIN and Civ2ToT are good to go, CivNET and Civ2MGE still has a music cd track reliance issue. However, I may have just been informed of a possible alternative that apparently GoG have already used in the past. It's a special CD audio track emulator that tricks the system/game into playing ogg files instead of CD tracks. I've gotta do some tests but we just might have found a solution to the last problem for true portability (making it easier to put on digital stores). More details here:

Oh and I think I also forgot to post here that even the 16bit limitation on Civ1 for windows, CivNET and the earlier versions of Civ2 would no longer be an issue if GoG used the excellent WineVDM program. More details here:
 
Am currently finally reading Sid Meier's Memoirs and there's an interesting part where he talks about that time where Firaxis and Take 2 acquire Microprose's licenses. He certainly makes it sound absolute and that Atari shouldn't have any remaining Civ license or any other Sid related Microprose stuff. However we know that's not the case as a lot of the old flight Sims including Sid's are not under 2K control plus there's the whole Sid Meier's Colonization having zero mention of 2K on Steam & GoG and instead having other publishers names stuff I previously posted in this thread certainly still raises questions to whether they really do have it all. Odds are 2K do indeed have full control of Civ1 & 2.. but there's still some slight doubt there.

 
Sounds like 2K originally were planning to buy everything off Infogrammes/Atari but ultimately settled on cherry picking the franchises they thought had a future. Here's another weird one though, 2K published Sid Meier's Pirates! but the Pirates Gold original digital release remains with Atari. If you were looking for a pattern, there isn't one

X-Com franchise
All legacy stuff published by 2K

Railroad Tycoon/Railroads
All legacy stuff published by 2K (including Rail Road Tycoon Deluxe released as freeware on the 2K website, nice), original Railroad Tycoon (not Deluxe) has never been released digitally

Pirates
Only Sid Meier's Pirates! published by 2K, Pirates Gold remains with Atari, original Pirates is bundled with Gold but has never been released digitally on its own.

Colonization
Only the Civ 4 spinoff expansion published by 2K, original Colonization remains with Atari

And of course only Civ games from the Infogrammes/Atari era onwards have been published by 2K, Civ I and II have never been released digitally, and only ever released by 2K as part of the retail 'Chronicles' set.

In conclusion, publishing rights deals are confusing!
 
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One more data point, apparently Sid Meier's Pirates Limited Edition (the big box with the t-shirt) has a copy of Pirates Gold for Windows on the bonus disk. So if that's true, 2k published it once before but not now. Also I now want that set, the Windows version is very hard to find these days.

EDIT no they didn't, that was an Atari release, oops
 
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Well it's been another year and sadly there's still no Civ1/Civ2/ToT in digital stores. I can't go into more detail but last anniversary a little bird told me that some progress had been made with the licence holder 2K but that these things take time and nothing was certain. Well considering another year has gone by it looks like more work is needed to get the message through to 2K that they can still make money off Civ1&2, it would be a nice addition to their upcoming Civ7 marketing, and that the classic Civ fans want this fixed! So the work to raise awareness continues and I'm pleased to say over the last 2 years we've accumulated roughly 6,650 more votes than when we started this so thank you to everyone who's voted! :) I should also mention that GoG did some spring cleaning and merged a couple of the vote threads together so I've crossed them out in the link list at the start of this thread.
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Interesting to hear its at least been put to someone at 2k. I don't hold out much hope for civ 2 / tot as they pretty much require community patches these days which some publishers can be funny about, but surely a civ 1 dosbox release would be doable.
 
Quick update.. good to see some of the top most vote links have had a few hundred increases over the last few months. Presumably either because of me posting this in lots of places or just lots of people out there thinking the same thing of "why aren't these hugely successful & popular old games being sold anywhere when so many lesser games of the same era are?".

I noticed something interesting this week. Much like with the Civilization series, Firaxis & 2K presumably have full control over the Colonization franchise too. Yet classic Colonization on steam is not under their control? I expected it to look similar to the Civ4 Colonization page:
View attachment 631353

Yet it instead looks like this:
View attachment 631354

GoG is similar...

Civ4Col:
View attachment 631357

Classic Col:
View attachment 631356

I don't know Retroism.. but I do know Nightdive as they've been behind some awesome retro remasters and remakes (eg Doom 64, System Shock and Blade runner) and specialize in acquiring abandon ware games stuck in licencing hell and selling them with or without improvements. So why is classic Colonization under their control and not 2Ks? I feel this is confirmation of our suspicions that when 2K acquired the rights to the Civ and Col franchises in the 2000s from Atari (formerly Infogrames formerly Hasbro) that for whatever reason the older existing Microprose titles were not part of the deal and got left behind in Atari's infamous IP dungeon. Presumably these guys rescued (ie made a deal) classic Col from Atari similar to the recent events with Slitherine rescuing the Master of Magic licence from Atari (and now getting MuHa to do a remake). Or I guess there's also the possibility that maybe 2K did get them but weren't interested in doing anything with them and these guys made a deal with them instead?

Either way presumably whatever situation classic Colonization was in, is probably the exact same one that Civ1, Civ2, and Test of Time are currently sitting in. Clearly someone with some swing/power who had a lot of love for Col basically took notice of the problem, saw a retro business opportunity, and did something about it.. if we could just get someone to notice the rest! I might see if I can contact these guys to ask about how they got Col and mention the Civ situation. I'll try their forums, twitters, and emails if I can get them. I'll probably be ignored but like I said above, I can't hurt to ask! If anyone has a way to speak with Firaxis too please let me know, I know they're a developer effectively powerless in this but it would be interesting to get their thoughts on this Civ1&2 issue, and maybe they can speak to 2K.

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Interesting.. for Colonization's 30th anniversary I had a fresh look at the Steam and GoG pages and the publisher info has changed since this post a few years ago. Retroism is gone and Atari have appeared! So I think that definitely answers who's IP dungeon classic Colonization was sitting in when those guys rescued it as it appears to have reverted back to Atari. So presumably when 2K & Firaxis did Civ4 Col they had to do a deal with Atari for the Colonization rights. Which once again creates some fresh doubt as to whether 2K truly does own the old Microprose era Civ1-2 rights as maybe 2K just did a temp deal with Atari to use them in the 2006 Chronicles pack.


 
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