Vote for your 3 civs you would most like to see : Final Results

[The Kingmaker]

There's plenty of other cities that can be included in their city list. Although Sumer as a region was controlled by the later Babylonian empires, I wouldn't call it their heartland.

Heck, they could probably include Sumer, Babylon and Assyria all at once if they tried.

I find myself thinking of all of the missing African, Asian and American civs and how much I miss them.

The Mongols, the Mayans, the Koreans, the Incas, the Ottomans. Mali/Songhai. Carthage.

Babylon.

These civs have become mainstays of the series. Their absence is noteworthy.

I even miss some of the rarer civs like Morocco and the Khmer.

At this point we can only hope that they'll add most, or even just some, of these back.

 

[Liufeng]

You're right that Babylon and Uruk aren't geographically that close, but maps I've seen of the Babylonian Empire included Uruk- if Babylon was a civ, Uruk and Ur would be cities in their city list. I just think that sort of messes things up a bit

There's plenty of cities there to make a babylonian or even an assyrian civ without the cities posing problems. In a 30 minute time search, I managed to establish a list of 27 cities for each of them ...

Babylonian civ : Babylon, Opis, Mari, Dur-Kurigalzu, Borsippa, Akkad, Eshnunna, Nuzi, Ribla, Der, Dilbat, Rapiqum, Malgium, Hit, Shekhna, Kurda, Terqa, Andarig, Shushan, Arbela, Harradum, Tuttul, Mashkan-shapir, Hamat, Tadmer, Takrit, Ribla

Assyrian civ : Assur, Nineveh, Carchemish, Dur-Sharrukin, Nimrud, Shubat-Enlil, Halab, Kar-Tukulti-Ninurta, Ekallatum, Qattara, Urkish, Tuttul, Emar, Arrapha, Ashnakkum, Terqa, Hatra, Shadikanni, Shibaniba, Harbe, Dunnu-sha-Uzibi, Dur-Katlimmu, Tushhan, Til-Barsip, Sirqu, Guzana, Zamahe

 

[dunkleosteus]

Dilbat is a city for Sumeria

 

[Liufeng]

Dilbat is a city for Sumeria

Well, now you're being of bad faith ...

 

[Zaarin]

And strictly speaking, Urkesh was Hurrian--but given that the probability of a Mitanni civilization making an appearance is sadly somewhere close to zero... (The Mitanni were conquered by the Assyrians anyway, which is why you found Urkesh in an Assyrian city list, I presume.)

 

[MantaRevan]

Too bad I missed the original polls . I expect that sooner or later, we'll end up with most civilizations from Civ 5 in the game. As for civs that would be new hat, here are some on my wishlist:

Vietnam for a unique culture that brings another face to the sparse Asian region.

Armenia as a religiously oriented state, although maybe Russia's lavra precludes another orthodox christian power.

The Mughals for another look at the Indian region and an Indian leader other than Gandhi as well as a different time period for the country.

Harappa for (science focused?) look at an ancient Indus civilization that is fascinating but easily forgotten.

The Inuit as a native american group that got a really cool mod back in Civ 5 and to show a different side to the usual Midwestern "Indian" trope.

Bohemia for a look at the unique Czech culture and maybe a 30 years war scenario.

And finally Ireland would be nice, though they usually get lumped in with the Celts, so it depends on what direction Firaxis wants to take things in.

 

[Zaarin]

Armenia as a religiously oriented state, although maybe Russia's lavra precludes another orthodox christian power.

Armenia isn't Eastern Orthodox, though. The Eastern Orthodox church is a Chalcedonian church (meaning it acknowledges the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon); Armenia follows the Armenian Apostolic Church, one of the non-Chalcedonian Oriental Orthodox churches (along with the Coptic Orthodox, Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox, Eritrean Tewahedo Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, and Malankara Orthodox Syrian Churches). (And before someone points out that "oriental" is not politically correct, it is the preferred name of the Oriental Orthodox churches, as distinct from Eastern Orthodox.)

Harappa for (science focused?) look at an ancient Indus civilization that is fascinating but easily forgotten.

Fascinating but easily forgotten because we have no clue who they were. We have no language, we have no city names, we have no leaders...Best left to modders who are more free to make things up. (Not that Firaxis can't just make things up: see Sumeria. ) Their language may have been Proto-Dravidian, but that's speculation based solely on their location and the fact that they were not Indo-Aryan. Even permitting that supposition, it still doesn't give us city names or leader names, even if we just let them anachronistically speak Tamil. (We do actually have a script, but like Minoan, we can't read it.)

The Inuit as a native american group that got a really cool mod back in Civ 5 and to show a different side to the usual Midwestern "Indian" trope.

Well, strictly speaking, while the Inuit are an indigenous people of North America, they are not Native American, i.e. they are not American Indian*. Once again there's the problem of no leaders and no city names, since the Inuit were nomadic. I do hope to see someone other than the Sioux or Iroquois, however. *crosses fingers for Tlingit or Haida*

*Genetically, the indigenous people of the New World fall into three categories: the Eskimo-Aleuts (Inuit, Yupik, and Aleuts) who are the most recent arrivals about 3,000 years ago; the Na-Dene who came about 6,000 years ago; and the American Indians which includes everyone else, arriving about 12,000+ years ago. There's also the Paleo-Eskimo, who might be Na-Dene or some other Siberian group, but they don't seem to have left any modern descendants and to have been entirely supplanted by the Eskimo-Aleuts. It should be emphasized that while Eskimo-Aleut and Na-Dene do represent linguistic as well as genetic groups, there is no reason to accept Greenberg's hypothesis that American Indian does as well--at least not in the way he posits it. If an Amerind language family does exist, it's far beyond the time depth we could hope to reconstruct and should probably be regarded with the same suspicion as Nostratic or Altaic.

 

[Mobfire]

The Inuit have plenty of city names in their own language, even some that existed prior to contact with Europeans such as Iqaluit. It wouldn't be terribly hard nor much of a stretch to use names of Arctic towns that are currently populated by mostly Inuit and have Inuktitut names, like Igloolik and Inuvik

You could also use legendary leaders like Apanuugpak, Ekeuhnik, or someone else from a large collection of oral tradition.

 

[679x]

*crosses fingers for Tlingit or Haida*

Agreed on Haida!! Perhaps they could capture defeated ships, turning them into one of their own, like Civ 5's Ottomans. Totem Pole as Monument replacement, and Red-Cedar Canoe as Galley replacement that is cheaper to build or is available immediately or something.

 

[Zaarin]

The Inuit have plenty of city names in their own language, even some that existed prior to contact with Europeans such as Iqaluit. It wouldn't be terribly hard nor much of a stretch to use names of Arctic towns that are currently populated by mostly Inuit and have Inuktitut names, like Igloolik and Inuvik

You could also use legendary leaders like Apanuugpak, Ekeuhnik, or someone else from a large collection of oral tradition.

They still seem an unlikely choice compared to the more advanced civilizations to the south; the Inuit were never more than hunter-gatherers.

Agreed on Haida!! Perhaps they could capture defeated ships, turning them into one of their own, like Civ 5's Ottomans. Totem Pole as Monument replacement, and Red-Cedar Canoe as Galley replacement that is cheaper to build or is available immediately or something.

Yes, but I'd rather see them given the more accurate name "Crest Pole." Personally what I'd like to see as a PNW civ's unique infrastructure is a Neighborhood replacement available early, buildable only along the coast, that grants bonus culture. In Tlingit this would be called a ḵwaan; I don't know the Haida equivalent. This would represent the fact that the Pacific Northwest was the most densely populated region of Pre-Columbian North America. I agree that the Haida war canoe would be the ideal UU (regardless of the nation chosen: Haida canoes were traded up and down the Pacific coast from Alaska to Oregon). The civ's UA could perhaps be the Potlatch: convert gold into culture and faith.

 

[679x]

Yes, but I'd rather see them given the more accurate name "Crest Pole." Personally what I'd like to see as a PNW civ's unique infrastructure is a Neighborhood replacement available early, buildable only along the coast, that grants bonus culture. In Tlingit this would be called a ḵwaan; I don't know the Haida equivalent. This would represent the fact that the Pacific Northwest was the most densely populated region of Pre-Columbian North America. I agree that the Haida war canoe would be the ideal UU (regardless of the nation chosen: Haida canoes were traded up and down the Pacific coast from Alaska to Oregon). The civ's UA could perhaps be the Potlatch: convert gold into culture and faith.

I was thinking the Potlatch as UA too. Someone should make a mod for the Haida -- they'd be good for TSL Earth maps, too, because they would take up a spot on the map that would otherwise be unoccupied. I would make my own Haida mod but I only started trying to learn to mod like a week ago, and I know very little about it.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I was thinking the Potlatch as UA too. Someone should make a mod for the Haida -- they'd be good for TSL Earth maps, too, because they would take up a spot on the map that would otherwise be unoccupied. I would make my own Haida mod but I only started trying to learn to mod like a week ago, and I know very little about it.

Well, you have to drop back a game, but the Civ V mod "LS Civilization Set I" includes the Haida, 'Totem' poles and war canoes included. Given their reputation as the 'Vikings of the Pacific' I particularly like the War Canoe's special attribute: it can attack units, Barb camps and 'harvest' 'Goodie Huts' on the coast - giving it a better capability than the 'Norse' in Civ VI!

The Personally what I'd like to see as a PNW civ's unique infrastructure is a Neighborhood replacement available early, buildable only along the coast, that grants bonus culture. In Tlingit this would be called a ḵwaan; I don't know the Haida equivalent. This would represent the fact that the Pacific Northwest was the most densely populated region of Pre-Columbian North America. I agree that the Haida war canoe would be the ideal UU (regardless of the nation chosen: Haida canoes were traded up and down the Pacific coast from Alaska to Oregon). The civ's UA could perhaps be the Potlatch: convert gold into culture and faith.

Pacific Northwest was the most densely populated of any 'hunter-gatherer' culture/tech group in the world (Because if there was a body of water more than 10 feet across, it had fish and shellfish in it), but once the 'Native Trinity' of maize, beans and squash disseminated into North America from Meso-America, the population density in places like the northeast coast probably exceeded it. Mann's book '1491' points out that the estimates for native population density in Pre-Columbian Americas have been steadily moving upwards: when I was in school (back when the Nixon-Kennedy Debates were Current Events) the estimate was about 1 million in North America at last count it's over 30 mill and rising.

NOTE: The Pacific-Northwest Native District Neighborhood replacement would, of course, turn into a Casino in the Atomic or Information Era, bringing in heaps of both Gold and Culture. Any such coast-only District could also legitimately have a substantial Food Bonus attached: the tribes up here (I live right next to Steilacoom, Washington) harvested both the coast and the rivers with very sophisticated net/weir technologies.

But we're all in agreement, SOMEBODY in the Pacific Northwest needs to get into a regular non-Modded Civ game sooner or later!

 

[Zaarin]

Sooner rather than later. And from everything I've read, the PNW had a higher population density at contact than even the Iroquois, but of course the Three Sisters were just making their way into the Northeast and the Iroquois only became major players in the Algonquian-dominated region after obtaining firearms from the Dutch. I considered food bonuses, but then it's starting to look like Kongo. Part of what makes the PNW cultures so fascinating is that, despite being hunter-gatherers, they had the lifestyle and culture of advanced agricultural societies thanks to the bountiful ocean, rivers, and forests (which one they relied on most varying by culture). In the North (meaning the Tlingit, Haida, and Tsimshian) they even had iron tools from scrap washed ashore from Asian shipwrecks (archaeological sites confirm them to be Pre-Columbian), which might explain why the Tlingit and Tsimshian were the premier craftsmen of the region (aside from shipbuilding, where the Haida were the clear and recognized masters of the trade).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Sooner rather than later. And from everything I've read, the PNW had a higher population density at contact than even the Iroquois, but of course the Three Sisters were just making their way into the Northeast and the Iroquois only became major players in the Algonquian-dominated region after obtaining firearms from the Dutch. I.

I was thinking less of the Haudenosenee than of the Algonkian language groups of New England or the tribes around Chesapeake Bay. Both of them, in addition to extensive woodland agriculture (J. Smith's rather famous comment that the Virginia forests were so open he could ride through them at full gallop, but he never noticed that those forests had been heavily modified by the 'primitive' natives) had access like the PNW groups to extensive fishing and shellfish resources. The New Englanders seem to have been kept Summer Villages on the coast with Winter Villages inland, so they could maximize profit from both agriculture and oceanic resources. That could be a basis for some interesting Attributes for a Civ...
While PNW would be my first choice for an addition, an Eastern Woodlands culture/language group Besides the Haudenosenee would also be a very nice addition.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I'd really, really love to see the Mississippian civ (centered at Cahokia), but there's a few snags with them. They're certainly deserving; they had the largest urban centers of any Pre-Columbian society north of Mesoamerica.

The choice of leaders is very limited; Tuskaloosa would do in a pinch, although he was from a fairly late sub-group and is not an ideal fit.

The UB is almost certainly the Mound as a unique improvement. The UU would be based on the "birdman" paraphernalia that has been uncovered, but calling it the "Falcon Warrior" would be too generic and bland.

The real problem is the language. There is no record of medieval Mississippian, which would relegate them to speaking a Muskogean language, which isn't an ideal fit either.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I'd really, really love to see the Mississippian civ (centered at Cahokia), but there's a few snags with them. They're certainly deserving; they had the largest urban centers of any Pre-Columbian society north of Mesoamerica.

The choice of leaders is very limited; Tuskaloosa would do in a pinch, although he was from a fairly late sub-group and is not an ideal fit.

The UB is almost certainly the Mound as a unique improvement. The UU would be based on the "birdman" paraphernalia that has been uncovered, but calling it the "Falcon Warrior" would be too generic and bland.

The real problem is the language. There is no record of medieval Mississippian, which would relegate them to speaking a Muskogean language, which isn't an ideal fit either.

You just put your finger on the problem wth a host of Pre-Columbian civs/cultures: we know just enough to be fascinated/tantalized, but are missing so much basic information that the Civ winds up being half Made Up or Fantasy. I loved playing the modded Olmec civilization in Civ V, but it drove me absolutely Frothing that the only 'city names' were the modern, Spanish names of the villages near their ruins!
Which is why I didn't mention the greatest agriculture-based Civ north of Mexico: we can reconstruct a bunch of village/town names and we have linquistic and leader-names for (some of) the Algonkian peoples and the Haudenosenee, but we are practically clueless about the realities of the Mississippians.

 

[Mobfire]

Red Horn, a mythological figure in the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex, could be used as a precolumbian leader. There's enough info on his myths to design an agenda.. Yes, it's a stretch, but I want to see Cahokia or some form of the Mississippians in quite badly.

 

[Zaarin]

I'd really, really love to see the Mississippian civ (centered at Cahokia), but there's a few snags with them. They're certainly deserving; they had the largest urban centers of any Pre-Columbian society north of Mesoamerica.

The choice of leaders is very limited; Tuskaloosa would do in a pinch, although he was from a fairly late sub-group and is not an ideal fit.

The UB is almost certainly the Mound as a unique improvement. The UU would be based on the "birdman" paraphernalia that has been uncovered, but calling it the "Falcon Warrior" would be too generic and bland.

The real problem is the language. There is no record of medieval Mississippian, which would relegate them to speaking a Muskogean language, which isn't an ideal fit either.

Other way around actually. We definitely have languages they could speak--Natchez, Chickasaw, etc. The problem is that any Mississippian leader who is historically attested would be the equivalent of making Romulus Augustulus the leader of Rome.

 

[Browd]

The problem is that any Mississippian leader who is historically attested would be the equivalent of making Romulus Augustulus the leader of Rome.

And that's as unlikely as ... well ... making Dido the Carthaginian leader. I mean, really, that could never happen....

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Every time I played the Celts in Civ V, I changed the leader's name to Asterix: it felt more realistic...