My Civs and Leaders Wishlist + Ideal Progression.

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

With Bulgaria, Normans, and Spain, I do wonder what the path forward for Exploration Age Europe is going to be... an HRE Civ could transition well into both Italy and (of course) Prussia, but at the same time Italy is probably most interesting in a vacuum as an Exploration Tuscany or Venice, and could somewhat reasonably transition to Prussia through the HRE connection. It really depends on how deep they plan to go in certain regions how early on, though Europe's marketability makes it a prime candidate to start fleshing out more... however, given that a Spain/Norman/HRE-adjacent/Bulgaria lineup forms a pretty good skeleton to add any Modern or Antiquity Iberian/France or Britain-adjacent/Central European/Eastern European civ to, I think I'd be fine with some of my wanted Civilizations that serve those areas similarly waiting a bit. For instance, Greece/Bulgaria/Russia makes a Kievan Rus' or even my beloved Byzantium slightly redundant for now (in terms of gap-filling efficiency, that is: they could all have very unique gameplay styles.) What I will put on my wishlist for Eastern Europe, however, is an Exploration-age leader. Does Europe have a lot of leaders already? Yes! However, the redundancy is mostly to the west, the only leader from the east being Catherine the Great, who, funnily enough, was famously focused on bringing western European influence to Russia. This may just be my personal bias, but I'd like to see an Orthodox leader (an in my religion, not as in a standard pick for the series). Especially if we aren't getting Byzantium soon, I'd like a Leader who can infuse our current Greece civ with a vibe other than the Renaissance adoption of it, a vibe more in line with Byzantium and the Orthodox nations as a whole. For this reason, I'd specifically not like a leader from classical Greece, an Alexander or a Pericles: they are far too closely associated with that bland, sterilized white color. A Roman leader would be my first pick, without a doubt: Anna Komnene at the tippy top of my list, with pretty much any notable emperor, empress, or scholar being fine. However, there are choices from other places that can isolate that Orthodox vibe (I think I use the word "vibe" too much). Olga immediately comes to mind, for one! For another option, while I personally wouldn't be the biggest fan, this is probably the best opportunity the series has had to work in Vlad the Impaler.

TL;DR: I'd like to see a leader from a hypothetically Exploration Age Orthodox Christian Civilization to make Greece -> Bulgaria -> Russia feel more Eastern European throughout. My top choices would be Anna Komnene or Olga, and while he wouldn't be my first pick, I know that there's a market for Vlad the Impaler.

That's a lot of words to say bring back Tamar of Georgia.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Italy can be spread over Exploration and Modern, quite easily. I see no reason why one of Two Sicilies or Sardinia-Piedmont cannot be developed into a worthy Modern Civ.

Olga and Anna Komnene are both very high on my wishlist, and I also would not mind if King Tamar became a Civilization staple. The game doesn't quite have a defensive leader yet (well, I suppose it has Tubman, but Tubman is more of a guerilla leader by intent), and that could play well into a Tamar return.

 

[Pedro P]

Ancient -
Tiwanaku (Gate of the Sun)
Modern -
Mapuche (Cerro Ñielo)
Theoretical Atomic/Information
Aymara (El Alto)

For no reason other than a non-colonial (well, as much as possible) path in the new system for South America. But it will probably just be Nazca/Tiwanaku and Gran Colombia and maybe a second Brazil for the supposed 4th age.

 

[czechball]

personal wishlist:

Antiquity: Germania, Armenia, Phoenicia, Akkad, Huns, Gaul, Illyria, Britons, Minoa, Hittites, Aluank (Caucasian Albania), Magyars, Nubia, Judea, Nabatea, Saba', Bedouins, Gokturks, Parthia

Exploration: Anglo-Saxons, Shogunate Japan, Manchu, Norway, Lithuania, Poland, Bohemia, Kievan Rus', Serbia, Seljuks, Shirvan, Hungary, French Kingdom, Scotland, Dai Viet, Courland, Ayyubids, Aztecs, Swahili, Ajuran, Makuria, Brunei, Portugal, Mapuche, Guarani, Muisca, Bukhara, Kazan, Iroquois, Taino, Burgundy, Holland (Dutch Republic), Sweden, Croatia, League of Lezhe (Skanderbeg's Albania), Savoy, Byzantium, Oman, Naples, Genoa, Georgia, Hanseatic League, Teutonic Order

Modern: Canada, Cuba, Central America, Colombia, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Brazil, Argentina, Haiti, Finland, Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Albania, Latvia, Belgium, Italy, Austria, Yugoslavia, Switzerland, Romania, Phillipines, Vietnam, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Arab Egypt, Zulu, Boers, Sokoto, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Ottomans, Maratha, Kazakhs

 

[RedCourtJester]

That's a lot of words to say bring back Tamar of Georgia.

I agree, but it's there by process of elimination.

With Bulgaria, Normans, and Spain, I do wonder what the path forward for Exploration Age Europe is going to be... an HRE Civ could transition well into both Italy and (of course) Prussia, but at the same time Italy is probably most interesting in a vacuum as an Exploration Tuscany or Venice, and could somewhat reasonably transition to Prussia through the HRE connection. It really depends on how deep they plan to go in certain regions how early on, though Europe's marketability makes it a prime candidate to start fleshing out more... however, given that a Spain/Norman/HRE-adjacent/Bulgaria lineup forms a pretty good skeleton to add any Modern or Antiquity Iberian/France or Britain-adjacent/Central European/Eastern European civ to, I think I'd be fine with some of my wanted Civilizations that serve those areas similarly waiting a bit. For instance, Greece/Bulgaria/Russia makes a Kievan Rus' or even my beloved Byzantium slightly redundant for now (in terms of gap-filling efficiency, that is: they could all have very unique gameplay styles.) What I will put on my wishlist for Eastern Europe, however, is an Exploration-age leader. Does Europe have a lot of leaders already? Yes! However, the redundancy is mostly to the west, the only leader from the east being Catherine the Great, who, funnily enough, was famously focused on bringing western European influence to Russia. This may just be my personal bias, but I'd like to see an Orthodox leader (an in my religion, not as in a standard pick for the series). Especially if we aren't getting Byzantium soon, I'd like a Leader who can infuse our current Greece civ with a vibe other than the Renaissance adoption of it, a vibe more in line with Byzantium and the Orthodox nations as a whole. For this reason, I'd specifically not like a leader from classical Greece, an Alexander or a Pericles: they are far too closely associated with that bland, sterilized white color. A Roman leader would be my first pick, without a doubt: Anna Komnene at the tippy top of my list, with pretty much any notable emperor, empress, or scholar being fine. However, there are choices from other places that can isolate that Orthodox vibe (I think I use the word "vibe" too much). Olga immediately comes to mind, for one! For another option, while I personally wouldn't be the biggest fan, this is probably the best opportunity the series has had to work in Vlad the Impaler.

TL;DR: I'd like to see a leader from a hypothetically Exploration Age Orthodox Christian Civilization to make Greece -> Bulgaria -> Russia feel more Eastern European throughout. My top choices would be Anna Komnene or Olga, and while he wouldn't be my first pick, I know that there's a market for Vlad the Impaler.

Also, I really don't get the appeal of Vlad. I absolutely hated The Historian.

 

[Kankan]

May as well add in an extra mini wish list for a potential 4th Age

To be fair however, realistically speaking except for a few (such as most African civs) it’d be better if there ended up being a 4th age that you have the option of staying with the same civ since this age would be a landmine regarding civs and leaders (Especially in Asia, Europe and the Americas!)

Americas

Contemporary America
Canada
Argentina

Leaders: Julio Cortázar, Eisenhower, Malcolm X

Europe

UK
Germany
USSR
Turkey (also in Asia)
Contemporary France

Leaders: Konrad Adenauer, Clement Attlee, Georgy Zhukov, (no more french leaders.)

Africa

Nigeria
Ghana
Kenya
South Africa

Leaders: Fela Kuti, Kwame Nkrumah, Nelson Mandela, Gamal Abdel Nasser

Asia

Contemporary Japan
India
Pakistan

Leaders: Sun Yat Sen, Gandhi

Oceania

Australia
New Zealand

 

[moondog385]

May as well add in an extra mini wish list for a potential 4th Age

To be fair however, realistically speaking except for a few (such as most African civs) it’d be better if there ended up being a 4th age that you have the option of staying with the same civ since this age would be a landmine regarding civs and leaders (Especially in Asia, Europe and the Americas!)

Americas

Contemporary America
Canada
Argentina

Leaders: Julio Cortázar, Eisenhower, Malcolm X

Europe

UK
Germany
USSR
Turkey (also in Asia)
Contemporary France

Leaders: Konrad Adenauer, Clement Attlee, Georgy Zhukov, (no more french leaders.)

Africa

Nigeria
Ghana
Kenya
South Africa

Leaders: Fela Kuti, Kwame Nkrumah, Nelson Mandela, Gamal Abdel Nasser

Asia

Contemporary Japan
India
Pakistan

Leaders: Sun Yat Sen, Gandhi

Oceania

Australia
New Zealand

That’s dire (not your fault)

 

[Ryansinbela]

Do you think some of the modern Uniques will be changed if there is an atomic age

 

[Ryansinbela]

Europe:
Antiquity:
Dacia - Balkanic line
Gaul - Western European line
Goths - Germanic & Central European line
Merovingians - French & Low Country line (replaces Frankia)
Norse - Nordic line

Exploration:
- Denmark or Iceland - nordic line
- Flanders or Burgundy - Low country line
- Bohemia - Central European line
- Austria - Germanic Line
- Byzantium - Greek line
- Kievan Rus - Russian line
- Portugal
- Tuscany or Venice - Italian line

Would also like to see the Spanish Civ be renamed to Castile.

Modern:
- Netherlands - Low Country line
- Poland - Central European line
- Serbia - Balkanic Line
- Sweden-Norway - Nordic line
- Sardinia-Piedmont - Italian Line
- Austria-Hungary - Germanic Line

Leaders: Alfred Nobel // Anna Komnene // Edward III // Emilia Planer // Jan Hus // Leif Erikson // Olga // Vlad Tepes

Africa:
Antiquity:
- Nubia
- Numidia
- Wagadu
- Xhosa

Exploration:
- Ayyubids
- Benin
- Berbers
- Kanem-Bornu or Mali
- Kongo
- Swahili
- Zimbabwe

Modern
- Dahomey
- Egyptian Republic
- Ethiopia
- Morocco
- Nigeria
- Sokoto
- Zulu or Maasai

Leaders: Averroes // Dihya // Ezana // Saladin // Sayyida al-Hurrah // Shaka

Asia & Oceania
Antiquity:
- Armenia
- Babylon
- Cham
- Judea
- Hittites
- Kushans
- Sogdia
- Sumer

+ an aboriginal Australian tribe.

Exploration:
- Burma
- Druze
- Georgia
- Joseon
- Oman
- Ottomans
- Tatars
- Yemen

Modern:
- Australia
- Durrani / Afghanistan
- Jordan or Saudi
- Malaysia
- Türkiye
- Uzbekistan

Leaders: Abbas I // Arwa al-Sulayhi // Bayinnaung // David Unaipon // Esarhaddon // Gajah Mada // Masako Hojo // Mithridates of Pontus // Nur Jahan // Puduhepa // Sargon // Solomon // Sun Tzu // Tamar the Great // Taksin the Great // Tigranes II // Timur Lenk

America's

Antiquity
- Moche or Nazca
- Olmecs or Zapotecs
- Pueblo (based on the Anasazi)

Exploration
- Aztecs
- Guárani or Tupi
- Iroquois
- Méttis or Cree
- Muisca or Mapuche
- Navajo
- Taino

Modern

- Brazil
- Canada
- Cherokee or Lakota
- Gran Colombia or Argentina
- Haiti
- Tlingit or Haida

Leaders: Alberto Santos-Dumont // Axayacatl // Chief Powhatan // Eréndita // Osh-Tisch // Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz // Spearthrower Owl

Who is Amelia Planer

 

[RedCourtJester]

Who is Amelia Planer

I think it's Emilia Plater?

Which, yeah she would be a really cool leader for Poland-Lithuania. I would love a 47-ish Augustus II the Strong for the dramatic parallels, but since we already have an Augustus he's probably not happening. And I'm all for Polish revolutionaries too.

 

[Kankan]

That’s dire (not your fault)

I don’t personally see how a 4th age could be handled well as the Cold War and beyond is an extremely controversial era full of controversial nations and individuals

China wouldn’t be able to get a direct civ rep for that era without the game getting banned in China. I don’t see either how mort of the Cold War can be represented without being either offensive or controversial. If anything it should be mostly same civs with different abilities whilst some civs have a unique 4th age evolution.

 

[Pedro P]

I don’t personally see how a 4th age could be handled well as the Cold War and beyond is an extremely controversial era full of controversial nations and individuals

China wouldn’t be able to get a direct civ rep for that era without the game getting banned in China. I don’t see either how mort of the Cold War can be represented without being either offensive or controversial. If anything it should be mostly same civs with different abilities whilst some civs have a unique 4th age evolution.

Humankind has PRC and is fine, as far as I know (it has a chinese translation at least?)
Leaders is probably the easiest to solve since we now have non-political leaders. The return of Stalin or the arrival of Nikita and Zhukov is unlikely, but, with the new arrangement, you could have a science focused Yuri Gagarin which is probably the most uncontroversial pick possible for a soviet leader, barring Laika.

 

[Ryansinbela]

They also can’t add Mao because in China it’s illegal to declare war against him apparently (which is why several games replaced him with Taizong)

 

[Kankan]

Humankind has PRC and is fine, as far as I know (it has a chinese translation at least?)
Leaders is probably the easiest to solve since we now have non-political leaders. The return of Stalin or the arrival of Nikita and Zhukov is unlikely, but, with the new arrangement, you could have a science focused Yuri Gagarin which is probably the most uncontroversial pick possible for a soviet leader, barring Laika.

China in Humankind largely doesn’t make any references to the PRC so that could be the best way of representing it in the game

Zhukov however I still wouldn’t entirely rule out the possibility of since he’s been a Great General in the past, I do like the idea of Yuri Gagarin however!

 

[Ryansinbela]

Also thanks for introducing me to Fela Kuti’s music, he would be interesting to see

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

China in Humankind largely doesn’t make any references to the PRC so that could be the best way of representing it in the game

Wondering how that would be possible in Civ, now with unique civics and policies. And it's not like you can go back and pick some from past dynasties, unless you go with the Chinese Republic, but that surely won't fly.

They also can’t add Mao because in China it’s illegal to declare war against him apparently (which is why several games replaced him with Taizong)

Not sure about it being illegal to declaring war on him, but I know it's illegal to depict him in any scenario where he could possibly lose.
So, unless you make his ability "automatically wins the game" I guess he has to sit out. Not that I mind.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Wondering how that would be possible in Civ, now with unique civics and policies. And it's not like you can go back and pick some from past dynasties, unless you go with the Chinese Republic, but that surely won't fly.

Not sure about it being illegal to declaring war on him, but I know it's illegal to depict him in any scenario where he could possibly lose.
So, unless you make his ability "automatically wins the game" I guess he has to sit out. Not that I mind.

I think that is what I saw but my brain reread it as that. Still I would prefer any other Chinese leader than Mao (preferably Cao Cao, Wu Zetian, Taizong, Zheng He, Yongle, and maybe Sun Yat-Sen)

 

[Kankan]

Also thanks for introducing me to Fela Kuti’s music, he would be interesting to see

If Nigeria gets included as a 4th age civ and its theme is not “Water No Get Enemy” I will genuinely start a riot, that song is too good to not be in the game!

Jokes aside, I think he’s an excellent choice for a contemporary non state leader as whilst he never was a politician he still was a leader across Africa for many people against corruption and tyranny. His story is worth reading into. I also added his mother Funmilayo as one of the Modern African leaders on my wishlist as she was one of the main figures behind the Nigerian Independence Movement.

 

[Kankan]

Wondering how that would be possible in Civ, now with unique civics and policies. And it's not like you can go back and pick some from past dynasties, unless you go with the Chinese Republic, but that surely won't fly.

Not sure about it being illegal to declaring war on him, but I know it's illegal to depict him in any scenario where he could possibly lose.
So, unless you make his ability "automatically wins the game" I guess he has to sit out. Not that I mind.

Most likely any unique civics and policies would likely have to be in reference to China’s mass industrialisation, potentially the Battle of Wuhan and overall resistance against China and some other things that aren’t too on the nose regarding the PRC

Most depictions of 1900s China typically have to be extremely careful to avoid a ban in China, as HOI4 is banned not due to the inclusion of Mao and the fact he can be defeated but due to the fact the Warlord Era is represented incorrectly. (As well as for political reasons such as the depictions of Tibet and Sinkiang as independent ingame alongside Japanese control over Taiwan allegedly)

 

[Kankan]

Since Carthage has the main ability that would likely make sense for Venice

Florence would be an interesting Exploration Italian civ to see that’s centred around the Renaissance