Vote for your Top 3 Leaders!

[General_W]

Vote For Your Top 3 Leaders!

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Here's how I propose we do this:

Every member should post their Top 3 choices for a leader, in order. Then we'll assign a point value for each position, and make our top 5 list from that.

4 points for each 1st place vote.
2 points for each 2nd place vote.
1 point for each 3rd place vote.​

Example Vote:

Member #1:

1. Leader A
2. Leader B
3. Leader C

Member #2:

1. Leader A
2. Leader C
3. Leader D

Member #3:

1. Leader E
2. Leader A
3. Leader C

Results:

#1) Leader A = 10 points
#2) Leader C = 4 points (ties go to leader with most members voting for it)
#3) Leader E = 4 points
#4) Leader B = 2 points
#5) Leader D = 1 point​

I think this result accurately reflects the "will" of the 3 voting members.
Remember – even though we're only picking 3 leaders each, as long as we don't all pick the same 3 leaders, we'll easily get a top 5 result.
​

Let the voting begin!

 

[General_W]

Here's your voter's guide

 

[Theoden]

1. Willem
2. Ragnar
3. Hannibal

And I agree that the proposed voting system is a fair way to do it.

 

[General_W]

My vote:

1. William VanOranje of the Dutch Empire
2. Darius of Persia
3. Hannibal of Carthage

Argument summary:

I think financial is a must, and all 3 of my choices are therefore financial.

I put VanOranje first, because I've never played him and he sounds like fun, his creative trait will help us in the land-grab stage, his libraries will helps us get ahead in tech, and dikes could give us the hammer boost we need to win this game in the (likely) final stages around the advent of Steam Power. Just thinking about all those cottages we built around rivers (plus all the coastal tiles we're working) getting an extra hammer to go with their gold fills me with glee!

I put Darius second because he's the all around money-bags of BtS, and the more commerce we can generate and keep – the more we have to spend on tech and spying. A very nice early UU is there to help Darius survive till the later game when he really comes into his own. The unique building (Apotohocary) comes a bit late (Guild & Currency) but the much needed health bonus at that stage of the game can make your cities absolute monsters.

I put Hannibal in third because the Charismatic trait not only helps cities stay productive even if we lack an early religion or happiness resource, but also contributes to our overall military might with the reduced experience upgrades. Numidian Cavalry UU is also a sweet early UU to help us fight through to the later game where Hannibals economic advantage and extra trade routes (thank you cothon) can really shine.
​

 

[Viva_Chingon]

Mehmed II (Expansive / Organized)
The Jannisary (replacement for the Musketman) has +25% against archery, mounted and melee units. He comes up late (in the Renaissance) but will crush all inferior units. His UB is the Hammam which replaces the Aqueduct but also provides +2 happy for that early boost. Securing our borders until we research gunpowder (hopefully a little before our target neighbor) should allow us to walk right through the door.

Shaka (Aggressive / Expansive)
His UU is a Spearman that can keep up with a Horse Archer (has Mobility). His UB replaces Barracks and grants -20% maint. Good civ to take land from neighbors early on. We could make someone our slave early and no one else would have to know about it.

William Van Oranje
Because I like this leader too and wanted to give him a little boost!

 

[remake20]

1. Augustus Caesar
2. Tokugawa
3. Justinian I
3.2. Julius Caesar

 

[azzaman333]

Hannibal #1

Hatty #2

Brennus #3

 

[AutomatedTeller]

1) Darius
2) Willem
3) Victoria

 

[General_W]

Current Top 5 by votes cast:

1. William VanOranje = 11 points
2. Hannibal = 6 points (3 votes)
3. Darius = 6 points (2 votes)
4. Mehmed II = 4 points
5. 4-way tie: Ragnar, Shaka, Tokugawa, & Hatty (1 vote each)

Still very much anyone's game.

Keep those votes rolling in!

 

[IamJohn]

After thinking about it for awhile:

1. William
2. Darius
3.Victoria

I may edit it later, but at least for right now this is probably the best in my opinion.

 

[Krill]

Hatty (for sheer flexibility, will be OK on every conceivable map)
Willem (The dyke beats the cothon hands down as a better UB, Cre is more useful than Chm in the early game and the UU will give us navel supremacy prior to researching frigates).
Surry (Again, early game supremacy in economy building and city placement to get the earrly city sites we want).

I think that we will end up with Willem as our first choice leader as he is a powerful leader; I just hope that we decide to keep him if another team also decides he is powerful and we don;t give them an advantage.

 

[civplayah]

1. Sullimen
2. Julius
3. Brennus

 

[General_W]

UPDATE!


Current Top 5:

1. William VanOranje = 17 points
2. Darius = 8 points
3. Hannibal = 6 points (3 votes)
4. Hatty = 6 points (2 votes)
5. 3-way tie: Mehmed II, Agustus, Sullimen (1 vote each)

Has anyone not voted?
If so - can I suggest a vote for Mehmed II, Agustus, or Sullimen to break the tie for last place? Even a 3rd place vote for one of them will be enough

 

[Joe Harker]

1st: Victoria
2nd: William Van Oranje
3rd: Ragnar

Edit: I think this is the leaderboard now

Current Top 5:

1. William VanOranje = 19 points
2. Darius = 8 points
3. Hannibal = 6 points (3 votes)
4. Hatty = 6 points (2 votes)
5. Victoria = 5 points
6. Ragnar = 3 points
7. 3-way tie: Mehmed II, Agustus, Sullimen (1 vote each)

 

[azzaman333]

(The dyke beats the cothon hands down as a better UB,

Depends on the map, but I do concede it is slightly better.

Cre is more useful than Chm in the early game

I disagree. CHA gives the ability to work 2 extra tiles for the cost of a monument. It makes it feasible to ignore Monarchy for much, much longer, especially if we can get a religion and a pre-calender/monarchy resource. And, the nice little bonus of cheaper upgrades for the military.

Although, I do rather wish there was a CRE/CHA leader, it'd be my favourite leader...

and the UU will give us navel supremacy prior to researching frigates).

The Numidian Cavalry gives us a unit to directly counter the dominant unit for that age of war (the axeman). Free Flanking I makes using Flank Attack on stacks filled with catapults easier. Plus, a Galleon-type UU might not have much use on the map.

 

[Karhu]

The current tally according to my count (which conflicts with other counts) is:

Willem = 4+4+1+2+4+2+2 = 19
Darius = 2+4+2 = 8
Hannibal = 1+1+4 = 6
Hatshepsut = 2+4 = 6
Victoria = 1+1+4 =6
Mehmed II = 4
Augustus Caesar = 4
Suleiman = 4
Ragnar = 2+1 =3
Shaka = 2
Tokugawa = 2
Julius Caesar = 2
Brennus = 1+1 = 2
Justinian I = 1
Suryavarman = 1

 

[mostly-harmless]

I have no preference for a leader. If needed I can break a tie later, though.

mh

 

[Karhu]

This team has great spirit. We are going to do great with whomever we chose. That said... The knowledge that we will be playing at Monarch level has increased my interest leaders with Happiness traits, UBs, or bonuses to build buildings which generate .

1. Hannibal
2. Mehmed II
3. Zara Yaqob; He deserves to make the list.

William's great, and it's looking like he'll be our choice, but Dike is still an irrelevant calculation due to it's late arrival.

 

[Krill]

I disagree. CHA gives the ability to work 2 extra tiles for the cost of a monument. It makes it feasible to ignore Monarchy for much, much longer, especially if we can get a religion and a pre-calender/monarchy resource. And, the nice little bonus of cheaper upgrades for the military.

To work those extra tiles we'd have to grow to extra pop, without granaries that would be 58 food without a granary (which themselves aren't cheap at 60 hammers a piece as we aren't planning on being EXP). That means we aren't building settlers to claim new land, and we would also have to use more worker turns to improve the tiels that larger city would use.

I like the charismatic trait, but we are 5 teams on a standard size map; so either this will be a map with lots of space, so we want to expand to fill it (and we can grow cities to size 4, and double pop them in slavery and regrow working food tiles and cottages using sentries to make sure that our enemies aren't going to rush us). We can build libraries cheaply, needing only a a food tile to run 2 scientists so we can get an early academy.

I like Charismatic, but if we want a really strong early economy, I'd suggest we go with Washington so we can also get cheap granaries and workers for the quicker growth and earlier tile improvements so we can more easily utilise larger cities. Teh downside is that of course we wouldn't be financial...

EDIT: and one otehr thing; we can't send screenshots of this game until we get paper, so it is going to be hellishly difficult to negotiate border treaties. The last time a demogame did this was the C3C ISDG, where I was a team leader and I had to try to hammer out a border proposal. So many on my team had problems figuring out where the border was that we just forgot about it and went to war. With CRE we can just plant our cities where we want them in contested areas and the borders will pop in 5 turns, giving us the defensive bonus, visibility, and access to resources much more easily. This allows us to effectively piss off one neighbour and get the land we want so we can have a large enough empire to develop.

The Numidian Cavalry gives us a unit to directly counter the dominant unit for that age of war (the axeman). Free Flanking I makes using Flank Attack on stacks filled with catapults easier. Plus, a Galleon-type UU might not have much use on the map.

Normal HA work fine, and the downside of the NC are that they can't go toe to toe with other HA stacks; we would be forced to rely on catapults (or a larger stack the the invading army) to destroy any stacks that had HA in them in large numbers along with a handfull of axes.

 

[Krill]

This team has great spirit. We are going to do great with whomever we chose. That said... The knowledge that we will be playing at Monarch level has increased my interest leaders with Happiness traits.

...all difficulty levels from noble upwards have the same happy and health limits...