Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
well, i think we were only going to have a few civic options, namely:
Government
Military
Labor
Economy
Religion
Knowledge
Government
Military
Labor
Economy
Religion
Knowledge
Warhammer Fantasy Battles Mod Brainstorm Thread
- Thread starter Psychic_Llamas
- Start date
darkedone02
The Suggestor
I wonder if there will be a new mod component that allows you to see what any of your citys been doing like a newspaper article. See if there was any recent things going on and see who got assassainated... even reports of dead empires and gone to war... I like to see some letter articles of this.
That is good, are you going to place in some religious things in there for only that empire? something like a special civic for that race that only they could use, other people cannot use that cause it's invisible to them and they don't have what they have.
That is good, are you going to place in some religious things in there for only that empire? something like a special civic for that race that only they could use, other people cannot use that cause it's invisible to them and they don't have what they have.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
I think we were planning on having some civ specific civics if thats what you mean. i think olleus wanted one called 'Teefs' under economy for the Orcs
About the newspaper thing, i dont think we will do that. i notice you have posted this in heaps of different mod threads and you have already mentioned it to us
but you probably just forgot
Personally, i think that newspaper would be too much effort for something that would give the player minor enjoyment. (plus i dont think that newspapers would really fit the warhammer world)
However, thats not to say that if YOU manage to get it working, then we may consider it. but thats a really big 'may'
About the newspaper thing, i dont think we will do that. i notice you have posted this in heaps of different mod threads and you have already mentioned it to us
but you probably just forgot Personally, i think that newspaper would be too much effort for something that would give the player minor enjoyment. (plus i dont think that newspapers would really fit the warhammer world
)However, thats not to say that if YOU manage to get it working, then we may consider it. but thats a really big 'may'
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
We started discussing the dwarfs in the private forum a couple of days ago, and i wanted to see if anyone here has any ideas about them.
Hey guys just my 2 bob worth on the traits
High elves:
High elves are from my reading of the background not very creative, they were but their society is now stagnant. They have hardly changed since the old ones left the world they have not needed to create much of what was needed... since alot of what they had the old ones had given them
Seafaring i would recomend highly you need only look at the world map for Warhammer to notice exactly where they had inhabbited prior to the war of the beard and their rather big fall from grace...
Aenarion from memory was the first of the Phoneix kings and Finubar was called the Seafarer so in line with my own thinking...
Leader 1: Aenarion (old school elf)
Traits: Spiritual (elves are deeply religous but in a different way to humans.. long life plays a part) , Defensive (isolationism would be a better word for this) , Seafaring (prior to the war of the beard they had colonies everywhere and still maintain a very powerful fleet)
Leader 2: Finubar
Traits: Seafaring (Finubar was the first Phoneix king to let human traders trade directly with Ulthanlan), Financial (this goes hand in hand with Seafaring Ulthanlan is a very rich place with vast amounts of natraul resources), Philosophical perhaps (elves have a lot of time on their hands...)
Leader 3: Techilis and Tyrion (spelling, and not sure of response...)
Empire:
The empire is really just a collection of city states and states in theory it is one nation... but just flicking through the background one notices the war of 3 emperors (just prior to the great war against chaos). The destruction of the world was narrowly avoided by Magnus the pious so hes a great leader. Karl Franz is also a great leader in current warhammer... (no word for it that i can think of..) he is the current Elector Emperor as well as being Elector of Altdorf 
. The empire is a collection of states feudal rather than imperial the electors need only answer a call to arms from the Emperor and from my reading they can ignore it if they dont like it. To elect and Emperor there are 14? electors the 2 archlectors of Sigmar the High priest of Sigmar the High priest of Ulric? the elder of moot (Halfling) and the rest are the electors themselves. So in reality the empire isnt really a single unified state so imperialism doesnt really fit in terms of the background in terms of the game play it fits quite well
Leader 1: Magnus the pious
Traits: Spiritual (the pious says it all... he was a champion of sigmar and killed Ashovar Kel
) Aggressive (he led the armies of the Empire and Kislev to Kislev to lift the siege of Kislev by chaos (lol that was to many Kislevs) and he won a resounding victory and made the wastes a bit safer for a while 
, just a suggestion would it be possible to have a trait that would add + modifiers to the diplomancy bar...? (to represent he was on good terms with the Dwarves (defended Kislev city), High Elves, Kislev and Bretonnia (they sent a crusade but it was a bit late from memory)
Leader 2: Karl Franz
Traits: Agricultural (represents the huge amount of Agricultural growth that has occured during his reign), Industrious (shows that the industry of the Empire is improving and the potential output is higher. During the Storm of Chaos, Nuln's furnaces were burning non stop to create cannons, mortars and hellblaster volley guns) Financial (the empire was during the earliest part of his reign the strongest it had been)
Leader 3: Sigmar/Valten not sure what you think about that...
Thats my 2 bobs worth would be happy to supply any infomation you wish i have a great memory and have read a scary amount of the background
Next installment Darkelves and Lizardmen very happy with what you have done with the mod keep at it hope this load of drivel
helps
Of course Rhye style civilization bonuses would really be cool Industrious giving bonuses to building units of X amount of sheilds would rock etc keep at it
High elves:
High elves are from my reading of the background not very creative, they were but their society is now stagnant. They have hardly changed since the old ones left the world they have not needed to create much of what was needed... since alot of what they had the old ones had given them
Seafaring i would recomend highly you need only look at the world map for Warhammer to notice exactly where they had inhabbited prior to the war of the beard and their rather big fall from grace...
Aenarion from memory was the first of the Phoneix kings and Finubar was called the Seafarer so in line with my own thinking...
Leader 1: Aenarion (old school elf)
Traits: Spiritual (elves are deeply religous but in a different way to humans.. long life plays a part) , Defensive (isolationism would be a better word for this) , Seafaring (prior to the war of the beard they had colonies everywhere and still maintain a very powerful fleet)
Leader 2: Finubar
Traits: Seafaring (Finubar was the first Phoneix king to let human traders trade directly with Ulthanlan), Financial (this goes hand in hand with Seafaring Ulthanlan is a very rich place with vast amounts of natraul resources), Philosophical perhaps (elves have a lot of time on their hands...)
Leader 3: Techilis and Tyrion (spelling, and not sure of response...)
Empire:
The empire is really just a collection of city states and states in theory it is one nation... but just flicking through the background one notices the war of 3 emperors (just prior to the great war against chaos). The destruction of the world was narrowly avoided by Magnus the pious
so hes a great leader. Karl Franz is also a great leader in current warhammer... (no word for it that i can think of..) he is the current Elector Emperor as well as being Elector of Altdorf . The empire is a collection of states feudal rather than imperial the electors need only answer a call to arms from the Emperor and from my reading they can ignore it if they dont like it. To elect and Emperor there are 14? electors the 2 archlectors of Sigmar the High priest of Sigmar the High priest of Ulric? the elder of moot (Halfling) and the rest are the electors themselves. So in reality the empire isnt really a single unified state so imperialism doesnt really fit in terms of the background in terms of the game play it fits quite well Leader 1: Magnus the pious
Traits: Spiritual (the pious says it all... he was a champion of sigmar and killed Ashovar Kel
) Aggressive (he led the armies of the Empire and Kislev to Kislev to lift the siege of Kislev by chaos (lol that was to many Kislevs) and he won a resounding victory and made the wastes a bit safer for a while , just a suggestion would it be possible to have a trait that would add + modifiers to the diplomancy bar...? (to represent he was on good terms with the Dwarves (defended Kislev city), High Elves, Kislev and Bretonnia (they sent a crusade but it was a bit late from memory) Leader 2: Karl Franz
Traits: Agricultural (represents the huge amount of Agricultural growth that has occured during his reign), Industrious (shows that the industry of the Empire is improving and the potential output is higher. During the Storm of Chaos, Nuln's furnaces were burning non stop to create cannons, mortars and hellblaster volley guns) Financial (the empire was during the earliest part of his reign the strongest it had been
) Leader 3: Sigmar/Valten not sure what you think about that...
Thats my 2 bobs worth would be happy to supply any infomation you wish i have a great memory and have read a scary amount of the background
Next installment Darkelves and Lizardmen very happy with what you have done with the mod keep at it hope this load of drivel
helps Of course Rhye style civilization bonuses would really be cool Industrious giving bonuses to building units of X amount of sheilds would rock
etc keep at it
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
Hey Masada, i think that was a little more than 2 bobs
I like many of your suggestions, especially for the empire.
For aenarion, what do you think about arcane? i mean, he was the first phoenix king, but he was also technically a demi-god. he also agreed to let the highelf sorceres cast the vortex spell which drained the world of its excess magic and made ulthuan stabe again.
also, what do you mean high elves arnt creative they seem the most cultured out of any race in the warhammer world to me. sure the old ones gave them stuff, but they kept on being cultured even after they left.
about the third leaders: i think we are only going to hev 2 leaders / civ for now. maybe later down the road we can add more, but for now i think its just 2 but that said, teclis, tyrion, sigmar and valten are all going to be heroes (uber units) in the game, so they will still get a representation.
i agree with all your suggestions on the empire, and i will put them in the second post.
thanks for the great feed back, and id love to hear more of that "drivel" as you put it
I like many of your suggestions, especially for the empire.
For aenarion, what do you think about arcane? i mean, he was the first phoenix king, but he was also technically a demi-god. he also agreed to let the highelf sorceres cast the vortex spell which drained the world of its excess magic and made ulthuan stabe again.
also, what do you mean high elves arnt creative
they seem the most cultured out of any race in the warhammer world to me. sure the old ones gave them stuff, but they kept on being cultured even after they left.about the third leaders: i think we are only going to hev 2 leaders / civ for now. maybe later down the road we can add more, but for now i think its just 2
but that said, teclis, tyrion, sigmar and valten are all going to be heroes (uber units) in the game, so they will still get a representation.i agree with all your suggestions on the empire, and i will put them in the second post.
thanks for the great feed back, and id love to hear more of that "drivel" as you put it
There is a difference between culture and just being cultured... the high elves are not just in ivory towers they live in ivory skyscrappers.. their culture hasnt changed since the old ones left the world they are trapped in time unable to adapt and completly unwilling to. They are cultured by comparison to all the other races but they havent progressed.
Aenarion should be arcane and hopefully when you impliment a functioning magic system it would benifit that really arcane giving science is a bit funny to me but i can understand why that is in there for game terms. Maybe remove defensive (isolationism)
And thanks Psychic_Llamas for the encouragement been reading the previous forums with a bit of a frown but thats been turned upside down keep at it
Aenarion should be arcane and hopefully when you impliment a functioning magic system it would benifit that
really arcane giving science is a bit funny to me but i can understand why that is in there for game terms. Maybe remove defensive (isolationism)And thanks Psychic_Llamas for the encouragement been reading the previous forums with a bit of a frown but thats been turned upside down keep at it
Aggressive:
free promotion (combat 1) for melee and gunpowder units.
double production speed of Barracks, drydock, siegeweapons workshop
Split into different traits... State military moral bonus to melee when introduced, range units first strike, artillery should have better bombard cavalry combat 1 and flanking
Used by Empire to lazy to rewrite it properly after my comp died right before i was going to post... but civilized nations
Warlike: Melee combat 1 & 2 Cavalry combat 1 and flanking
Used by Chaos etc both of these hopefully would make the fighting styles a bit different when attacked by Chaos in force Kislev should retreat behind its walls and wait for its allies to help it.. Chaos should try and lure them out and then beat them senseless a bit more like the background
Arcane:
+10% Science (cheaper mages and spells when introduced)
Philosophical:
+100% greatpeople birth rate
double production speed of university (+ modifier to like minded nations and - to non like minded nations)
Spiritual:
no anarchy
double production speed of temples (cheaper priests Warrior priests of Sigmar, Death guard of Morr etc)
Elementalist: Arabia only?
?? cheaper elementals (arabia uses them alot) and extra food from desert squares
Agricultural:
+1 health / city
+1 food on plots with 3 food already.
(cheaper peasants and the ability to raise militia 1 or 2 strength but guerilla 1 & 2 and if possible tie them to the national borders they wouldnt leave the country, acts like conscription but doesnt cost pop and doesnt cause unhappyness spawn on a regular turn count)
Imperial:-50% Civic upkeep
+1 culture / city (replace scout with a pioneer some worker abilities road building fort building and maybe clear forest..? same movement)
Exspansive:
+2 Health / city
double production speed of granary, harbour. (cheaper working boats and cheaper workers?)
Hidden:
?? (some units are hidden and able to move through no ROP nations but return to your land if war is declared... (wood elves moving from enclave to enclave)
Creative:
+50% great people birth rate
+1 culture / city
double production speed of bloodbowl stadium, theatre (better high level weapons cheaper or something requires a certain type of perverse creativity to create a steam tank or a hellblaster volley gun)
Industrious:
+1 hammer on plots with 3 hammers already
double production speed of forge (better movement on roads)
Financial:
+1 gold on plots with 2 gold already
double production speed of bank (
Defencive:
Free promotion (homeland) for recon, archery, mounted and melee units. PERFECT!! of course Isolationism sounds better to me AHAHAHAHAHA
Friends of the woods:
+2 health / city. better attack when attacking into woods and better defense
Orgagnized:-50% Civic upkeep
double production speed of courthouse, lighthouse (cheaper unit maintinance)
Greenskins:-60% civic upkeep
-10% science (unit cost what unit cost i want horde armies)
Seafaring:
Free promotions: (combat I, navigation I, sentry) for naval units. PERFECT
Of course these wont all be possible to impliment next installment of Masada Rant is Lizardmen and Darkelves... thats if i dont get sidetracked and think of anything else to add to the traits, Religion and civics look pretty to many choices.....NOOOOOOOO
free promotion (combat 1) for melee and gunpowder units.
double production speed of Barracks, drydock, siegeweapons workshop
Split into different traits... State military moral bonus to melee when introduced, range units first strike, artillery should have better bombard cavalry combat 1 and flanking
Used by Empire to lazy to rewrite it properly after my comp died right before i was going to post... but civilized nations
Warlike: Melee combat 1 & 2 Cavalry combat 1 and flanking
Used by Chaos etc both of these hopefully would make the fighting styles a bit different when attacked by Chaos in force Kislev should retreat behind its walls and wait for its allies to help it.. Chaos should try and lure them out and then beat them senseless a bit more like the background
Arcane:
+10% Science (cheaper mages and spells when introduced)
Philosophical:
+100% greatpeople birth rate
double production speed of university (+ modifier to like minded nations and - to non like minded nations)
Spiritual:
no anarchy
double production speed of temples (cheaper priests Warrior priests of Sigmar, Death guard of Morr etc)
Elementalist: Arabia only?
?? cheaper elementals (arabia uses them alot) and extra food from desert squares
Agricultural:
+1 health / city
+1 food on plots with 3 food already.
(cheaper peasants and the ability to raise militia 1 or 2 strength but guerilla 1 & 2 and if possible tie them to the national borders they wouldnt leave the country, acts like conscription but doesnt cost pop and doesnt cause unhappyness spawn on a regular turn count)
Imperial:-50% Civic upkeep
+1 culture / city (replace scout with a pioneer some worker abilities road building fort building and maybe clear forest..? same movement)
Exspansive:
+2 Health / city
double production speed of granary, harbour. (cheaper working boats and cheaper workers?)
Hidden:
?? (some units are hidden and able to move through no ROP nations but return to your land if war is declared... (wood elves moving from enclave to enclave)
Creative:
+50% great people birth rate
+1 culture / city
double production speed of bloodbowl stadium, theatre (better high level weapons cheaper or something requires a certain type of perverse creativity to create a steam tank or a hellblaster volley gun)
Industrious:
+1 hammer on plots with 3 hammers already
double production speed of forge (better movement on roads)
Financial:
+1 gold on plots with 2 gold already
double production speed of bank (
Defencive:
Free promotion (homeland) for recon, archery, mounted and melee units. PERFECT!! of course Isolationism sounds better to me AHAHAHAHAHA
Friends of the woods:
+2 health / city. better attack when attacking into woods and better defense
Orgagnized:-50% Civic upkeep
double production speed of courthouse, lighthouse (cheaper unit maintinance)
Greenskins:-60% civic upkeep
-10% science (unit cost what unit cost i want horde armies)
Seafaring:
Free promotions: (combat I, navigation I, sentry) for naval units. PERFECT
Of course these wont all be possible to impliment next installment of Masada Rant is Lizardmen and Darkelves... thats if i dont get sidetracked and think of anything else to add to the traits, Religion and civics look pretty to many choices.....NOOOOOOOO
Other traits.. something along the line of
constant war (reduce shield count on units and upkeep cost)
Sacred spawnings (lizardmen) X amount of turns lizardmen elite units spawn from buidlings... since the slann dont really control the spawnings they just spawn.. Skinks however could be built
Civ ideas... (for Warhammer Map)
Skaven: in line with skavenness would it be possible to allow them to build cities in mountains and swamps/marshes and for their units to be hidden? there food would also come from those combine that with hidden culture borders (if possible) and that would a really fun civ to play
Will if time permits have a bit of a go at making a map for warhammer would involve most likely twisting an existing map of the world with an enlarged Europe (Warhammer map is really just our world a bit more gothic)
That could also apply to dwarfs in the background alot of their food comes from inside or around the mountains very few dwarf cities are built in the lowlands there borders would be open to see and it might make them a bit more difficult to attack...?
I would also propose to combine Chaos+Norsca into a single civ and give them 2 settlers at the start for both starting areas... while the Norse are not really chaosy they still worship it and the difference is minimal. Chaos should really also be locked at war with the Empire, Kislev, High elves and Darkelves of course this would offset by there traits (yet to be made) and there position in game
Orcs should also be locked at war with everyone and really strectching it i would be possible to unite goblins and hobgoblins under the single civ Orcs and Goblins? would reduce civ count and make life a fair bit more interesting and would offset the fact they are at war with everyone
the Empire and Kislev could also be locked at peace representing there special relationship with each other
constant war (reduce shield count on units and upkeep cost)
Sacred spawnings (lizardmen) X amount of turns lizardmen elite units spawn from buidlings... since the slann dont really control the spawnings they just spawn.. Skinks however could be built
Civ ideas... (for Warhammer Map)
Skaven: in line with skavenness would it be possible to allow them to build cities in mountains and swamps/marshes and for their units to be hidden? there food would also come from those combine that with hidden culture borders (if possible) and that would a really fun civ to play
Will if time permits have a bit of a go at making a map for warhammer would involve most likely twisting an existing map of the world with an enlarged Europe (Warhammer map is really just our world a bit more gothic)
That could also apply to dwarfs in the background alot of their food comes from inside or around the mountains very few dwarf cities are built in the lowlands there borders would be open to see and it might make them a bit more difficult to attack...?
I would also propose to combine Chaos+Norsca into a single civ and give them 2 settlers at the start for both starting areas... while the Norse are not really chaosy they still worship it and the difference is minimal. Chaos should really also be locked at war with the Empire, Kislev, High elves and Darkelves of course this would offset by there traits (yet to be made) and there position in game
Orcs should also be locked at war with everyone and really strectching it i would be possible to unite goblins and hobgoblins under the single civ Orcs and Goblins? would reduce civ count and make life a fair bit more interesting and would offset the fact they are at war with everyone
the Empire and Kislev could also be locked at peace representing there special relationship with each other
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
impressive list
Im a little confused as to what you mean when you say Aggressive should be split into two. why? and what benefit would two traits serve?
I was hoping for arcane to give all magical units built the ability to start of with a free spell, or experience. and also having cheeper mages and spells would be good.
I personally think philosophical should not be touched. 100% great people points is uber powerful, and if we add extra diplomatic relations to it, it will be the ultimate trait.
i think spiritual should actually DO something. i never liked the no anarchy 'bonus', it seems too small a benifit. perhaps making all religious base buildings and wonders, and units double speed would be good.
I think elementalist would be good for araby, but also for katarin of Kislev, as she is the Ice Queen of kislev. so perhaps a benefit from desert, ice, ocean, and mountain tiles would be good, representing the power they have over the elments of earth air fire and water.
i like your ideas on agricultural. perhaps we could make peasants able to build farms as a side bonus too.
good idea for the pioneer for imperial.
i dont know what you mean with what you said about hidden, sorry
I think creative should stay 50% great people and +1 culture, and then have another trait called "INVENTIVE" which makes better high level weapons cheaper or something, which requires a certain type of perverse creativity to create a steam tank or a hellblaster volley gun. would be good for dwarves, chaos dwarves and empire.
can you explain why you think defensive should be isolationism? personally i think that should be a civic, not a trait.
I agree that greenskins should have a reduced unit cost.
perhaps 'constant war' would be better being combined in with a warfare civic instead.
Im not sure about sacred spawnings, that dosnt sound like a trait,
About the skaven, i agree with you, i would love to see skaven as a playable civ, but i think they will be one of the last to be implemeted.
Keep the great ideas flowing
Im a little confused as to what you mean when you say Aggressive should be split into two. why? and what benefit would two traits serve?
I was hoping for arcane to give all magical units built the ability to start of with a free spell, or experience. and also having cheeper mages and spells would be good.
I personally think philosophical should not be touched. 100% great people points is uber powerful, and if we add extra diplomatic relations to it, it will be the ultimate trait.
i think spiritual should actually DO something. i never liked the no anarchy 'bonus', it seems too small a benifit. perhaps making all religious base buildings and wonders, and units double speed would be good.
I think elementalist would be good for araby, but also for katarin of Kislev, as she is the Ice Queen of kislev. so perhaps a benefit from desert, ice, ocean, and mountain tiles would be good, representing the power they have over the elments of earth air fire and water.
i like your ideas on agricultural. perhaps we could make peasants able to build farms as a side bonus too.
good idea for the pioneer for imperial.
i dont know what you mean with what you said about hidden, sorry
I think creative should stay 50% great people and +1 culture, and then have another trait called "INVENTIVE" which makes better high level weapons cheaper or something, which requires a certain type of perverse creativity to create a steam tank or a hellblaster volley gun. would be good for dwarves, chaos dwarves and empire.
can you explain why you think defensive should be isolationism? personally i think that should be a civic, not a trait.
I agree that greenskins should have a reduced unit cost.
perhaps 'constant war' would be better being combined in with a warfare civic instead.
Im not sure about sacred spawnings, that dosnt sound like a trait,
About the skaven, i agree with you, i would love to see skaven as a playable civ, but i think they will be one of the last to be implemeted.
Keep the great ideas flowing
erg just lost my 2 pages of a reply... something went wrong when i went to post it.... will type it up tommorow
erg just lost my 2 pages of a reply... something went wrong when i went to post it.... will type it up tommorow scrap that i will type a bit quickly
arcane: i agree it should
should be a trait called Scientific (not a great deal of warhammer tech is magical in origin)
philosophical : your right about that
spiritual: should also aid in building priests (Death guard of Morr anyone, Warrior priests of Sigmar, Priests of Taal, Bear Priests or Ursun and Slaan mage priests need i say more...
elementalist: would also be great for Lizardmen they sunk a full fleet of Cathayan war junks with a typhoon might help with jungle issues...
agricultural: yeah
imperial: should compliment the base ability
hidden: allows a unit to move through players land they dont have right of passage with and they should be hidden like a spy or at least some units (Wood elves, Beastmen, Amazons and Skaven in looking at you..) Wood elves have settlements in Drakwald Forest (why i dont know) the Forest of Shadows as well as Athel Lorien but they also have others...
creative and inventive im sold
defensive and Isolationism should be different defensive as it is and Isolationism should be better but you should suffer - diplomatic relations with other civs
Chaos: constant war: should be a civic units should X% cheaper but you should be locked at war with everyone and unable to change to other civics?
Brettionia: Crusades: every X turn you should be able to raise a crusade in your cities get X amount of Peasants and X amount of men-at-arms and X amount of Knights (questing grail etc) no unhappyness etc but hight maintinece costs
The Empire: State armies: units X and Y should be cheap to make and cost no maintinence till X amount is made... but X amount of units must be in cities pops X and Y otherwise you face massive unhappyness... no one wants there boys to defend another state *shudders*
Sylvania: Undeath: units X and Y enslave they unit but turn it into them but they should be really expensive to make in cities
Lizardmen: sacred spawnings every X turns minor wonders (allowed X per X amount of cities) X and Y generate units X and Y Saurus. Skinks should be buildable but not some they have special spawnings to but shouldnt be so difficult to get in numbers
Still have to address Agressive but that will be for tommorrow
(My spelling sucks i know please dont tell me. I dont use much punctuation but thats a personal choice really... otherwise thx Physic_Llamas for the response
erg just lost my 2 pages of a reply... something went wrong when i went to post it.... will type it up tommorow scrap that i will type a bit quickly
arcane: i agree it should
should be a trait called Scientific (not a great deal of warhammer tech is magical in origin)
philosophical : your right about that
spiritual: should also aid in building priests (Death guard of Morr anyone, Warrior priests of Sigmar, Priests of Taal, Bear Priests or Ursun and Slaan mage priests need i say more...
elementalist: would also be great for Lizardmen they sunk a full fleet of Cathayan war junks with a typhoon might help with jungle issues...
agricultural: yeah
imperial: should compliment the base ability
hidden: allows a unit to move through players land they dont have right of passage with and they should be hidden like a spy or at least some units (Wood elves, Beastmen, Amazons and Skaven in looking at you..) Wood elves have settlements in Drakwald Forest (why i dont know) the Forest of Shadows as well as Athel Lorien but they also have others...
creative and inventive im sold
defensive and Isolationism should be different defensive as it is and Isolationism should be better but you should suffer - diplomatic relations with other civs
Chaos: constant war: should be a civic units should X% cheaper but you should be locked at war with everyone and unable to change to other civics?
Brettionia: Crusades: every X turn you should be able to raise a crusade in your cities get X amount of Peasants and X amount of men-at-arms and X amount of Knights (questing grail etc) no unhappyness etc but hight maintinece costs
The Empire: State armies: units X and Y should be cheap to make and cost no maintinence till X amount is made... but X amount of units must be in cities pops X and Y otherwise you face massive unhappyness... no one wants there boys to defend another state *shudders*
Sylvania: Undeath: units X and Y enslave they unit but turn it into them but they should be really expensive to make in cities
Lizardmen: sacred spawnings every X turns minor wonders (allowed X per X amount of cities) X and Y generate units X and Y Saurus. Skinks should be buildable but not some they have special spawnings to but shouldnt be so difficult to get in numbers
Still have to address Agressive but that will be for tommorrow
(My spelling sucks i know please dont tell me. I dont use much punctuation but thats a personal choice really... otherwise thx Physic_Llamas for the response
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
Ok, cool, im going to add those changes to the traits in the secon post now.
your right about spiritual.
i agree about the lizardmen being elementailsts too.
ok, i see what you mean about hidden now, sorry
i think i could live with separate traits for defensive and isolationist.
---isolationist should also get - in forign trade as well as in diplomatic relations. they could but anable to use openboarder agreements, but have a big defensive bonus
---defensive could be a small defense bonus, and castles and walls are cheaper to build, and all archer and gunpowder units start with the city garrison 1 promotion? too powerful?
@ Ploe, how much of the civics need adjustment? what need changing, is it ok if we brainstorm heaps of new civics?
constant war, i think that should be a very late civic, for after when chaos get stronger. but once they change to that civic, therre is no going back. units should all become much cheaper. good idea
crusades sounds like it would be good for a wonder ro bretonia. that would be one kick ass wonder
State armies could be interesting. im not sure how that would work though.
Undeath could be a unit promotion, like the werewolf promotion in FfH, but it should be a % chance of raising the enemy as a skeleton, zombie or goule. shold only be given to vampires, undead spell casters, and gouls and heroes.
The sacred spawnigs would also be a kick ass wonder
perhaps once it is built it will randomly spawn X number of a random unit in a random city (where X is half the number of cities owned) avaliable to the civ at that time, but will only occure every few turns, say every 10 turns.
PS, your spellings not bad mine was worse
your right about spiritual.
i agree about the lizardmen being elementailsts too.
ok, i see what you mean about hidden now, sorry
i think i could live with separate traits for defensive and isolationist.
---isolationist should also get - in forign trade as well as in diplomatic relations. they could but anable to use openboarder agreements, but have a big defensive bonus
---defensive could be a small defense bonus, and castles and walls are cheaper to build, and all archer and gunpowder units start with the city garrison 1 promotion? too powerful?
@ Ploe, how much of the civics need adjustment? what need changing, is it ok if we brainstorm heaps of new civics?
constant war, i think that should be a very late civic, for after when chaos get stronger. but once they change to that civic, therre is no going back. units should all become much cheaper. good idea
crusades sounds like it would be good for a wonder ro bretonia. that would be one kick ass wonder
State armies could be interesting. im not sure how that would work though.
Undeath could be a unit promotion, like the werewolf promotion in FfH, but it should be a % chance of raising the enemy as a skeleton, zombie or goule. shold only be given to vampires, undead spell casters, and gouls and heroes.
The sacred spawnigs would also be a kick ass wonder
perhaps once it is built it will randomly spawn X number of a random unit in a random city (where X is half the number of cities owned) avaliable to the civ at that time, but will only occure every few turns, say every 10 turns.
PS, your spellings not bad
mine was worsei just think that it would be cool if every civic had a drawback it might make for interesting playing
Rhye poisoned me with his traits... i see crusades as a part of Brettonia the king might maintain an army to defend the realm most of the time... but in times of need he calls together his dukes, who call together their earls, who call together their knights, who call together thier men at arms and peasants come to pay of their taxes... i see it as a trait every X amount of turns Brettonia can call use a free conscription (call to crusade) to get X amount of knights from city size Y and X amount of men at arms and peasants as well but they cost alot to keep in the field... after all people need to be payed and feed so its just as a failsafe you use it only when A) your in trouble or B) you need soldiers to lay down the smacketh
Combine it with Agricultral (with changes ) and you (Lol they are not argricultral... what about all the peasants ) have the ability to call together a fairly large amry sure most of its rabble but hey... there only peasants
Add Spiritual to the mix and guess what you get cheaper damsels (they are priests sorta...) so you can have a huge army and lots of magic... off course the bulk of your army sucks and you dont have access to siege weapons but a massive stack of peasants (with no upkeep) has about the same effect... so then you smash them using your knights which have run the amount you earn in gold a turn to -200 but after you attack that city you are only running at -20 thats the idea at any rate
Sorry to say it but Warhammer is gothic fantasy BRING ON PEASANT SIEGE WEAPONS of which you need 20 to equal a cannon but oh well... they are after all only peasants
it might make for interesting playingRhye poisoned me with his traits... i see crusades as a part of Brettonia the king might maintain an army to defend the realm most of the time... but in times of need he calls together his dukes, who call together their earls, who call together their knights, who call together thier men at arms and peasants come to pay of their taxes... i see it as a trait every X amount of turns Brettonia can call use a free conscription (call to crusade) to get X amount of knights from city size Y and X amount of men at arms and peasants as well but they cost alot to keep in the field... after all people need to be payed and feed so its just as a failsafe you use it only when A) your in trouble or B) you need soldiers to lay down the smacketh
Combine it with Agricultral (with changes
) and you (Lol they are not argricultral... what about all the peasants ) have the ability to call together a fairly large amry sure most of its rabble but hey... there only peasants Add Spiritual to the mix and guess what you get cheaper damsels (they are priests sorta...) so you can have a huge army and lots of magic... off course the bulk of your army sucks and you dont have access to siege weapons but a massive stack of peasants (with no upkeep) has about the same effect... so then you smash them using your knights which have run the amount you earn in gold a turn to -200 but after you attack that city you are only running at -20
thats the idea at any rateSorry to say it but Warhammer is gothic fantasy
BRING ON PEASANT SIEGE WEAPONS of which you need 20 to equal a cannon but oh well... they are after all only peasants
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
i just had a picture of Gilles le Breton's squire saying "the peasants are revolting" and then gilles saying, "yes i know theyre revolting, tell me something new." Thats actually starting to sound good
perhaps if we changed the name a little, so it sound more traitish, like, "crusader".
So the "Crusader" trait allows the civ to conscript units without causing any unhappyness, but everytime the civ conscripts a unit, a GROUP of X number of units appears. (where X is Half the population size of the city they were conscripted from) generally only peasants, but sometimes a knight, will appear. these units have tripple upkeep cost, and therefore the owner cannot use them all the time, only in times of dire need, or when they have heaps of money, or when, how you so fittingly put it: "you need soldiers to lay down the smacketh"
occasionally, if to conscript a unit from the capital, a Questing knight can have a chance of appearing instead of an ordinary knight (this is probably getting too complex, but its a cool idea
)And instead of disbanding peasants, we could give them the ability to be reterned to the population of the city, so they are 'sacrificed' to add one population to the city.
I like it
, what do other people think?Do you suggest that Gilles' traits are Crusader, Agricultural, and Spiritual? .(i would prefer Organised instead of Agricultural)
organized instead of agricultural man peasants... ahhh but if you change the traits i can see what your getting @
Warhammer is really just a parody of historyX10 in the gothic bits...
im not sure how easy it would be to program..l. but if it wasnt to hard it would be possible to add that sort of trait (a unique one) for each civ
Kislev: Pulks
Empire: state armies
Lizardmen: sacred spawning
etc whatever they do just to catch the feeling of Warhammer in all its gothic majesty
going to have a look at creating a warhammer map.... got the material to do it as well i think...
Warhammer is really just a parody of historyX10 in the gothic bits...
im not sure how easy it would be to program..l. but if it wasnt to hard it would be possible to add that sort of trait (a unique one) for each civ
Kislev: Pulks
Empire: state armies
Lizardmen: sacred spawning
etc whatever they do just to catch the feeling of Warhammer in all its gothic majesty
going to have a look at creating a warhammer map.... got the material to do it as well i think...
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
well, i think Ploe and olleus wanted to have a racial trait for each leader, so that shouldnt be hard to do.
Whats 'Pulks' ?
PS, goodluck with the map
Whats 'Pulks' ?
PS, goodluck with the map
Pulks: Are the way in which Kislevites armies are oraganized... normally Kislevite nobles are left to defend themselves against Chaos but in times of great incursions they are forced to organize themselves better and they form Pulks and Grand Pulks (i think there called) they can just range from a small group of nobles to the grand Pulk of the Tzarzinas in which every noble sends soldiers, the Tzarzinas household guard gets ready to ride (it garrisons Kislev normally) and they call in the friendly nomads. Doesnt often happen that they call everyone together but it happened during the latest chaos incursion .
Will add more detail to it in a later post
Not sure how to represent it in game though...
Brief History of the Empire... just to show exactly how fractious it is... and why it isnt really a single nation
Birth of Sigmar Unknown heralded by twin tailed comet
Age 15 saves Dwarf King Kurgan Ironbeard gifted with Ghal Maraz
sometime later unites tribes and defeats orcs at Blackfire pass
Year 1 of the Imperial calender Sigmar is crowned Emperor (doesnt include Kislev to far away but they are friendly to Sigmar much the same with Brettonia)
Sigmar rules 32 years till he leaves to the east
year 73 Johan Helstrum becomes first priest of Sigmar
1111 (empire in trouble during intrim) Black Plauge for 4 year 9 out of 10 die
1115 Boris Goldgather dies (hated)
1124 Mandred Ratcatcher drives out rats beasts
when Mandred dies the empire descends into civil war killed by rat beasts...
Empire divided into 2 parts Electorate Emperors and Ottilian Emperors of Tabecland division started in 1360 during which time Empress Ottilia (first empress?) rules for a brief time
1547 another claiment to the throne enters the fray the Count of Middenheim proclaimed himself Emperor in the name of Ulric the wolf god
Age of three Emperors massive civil war
1707 Gorbad Ironclaw defeats count Eldred of Solland, destroys Solland and takes his Runefang (sword of office of an elector count but also really powerful (not in game terms *cry*) sacks, defeats count of Wissenland at the battle of Grunberg (to the south of Altdorf) besieges Altdorf Sigismund killed the Electorate Emperor killed by a great beast... Orcs defeated (YAY)
1979 Margritta of Marienburg becomes Empress of the Electors, Grand Theogonist strikes it down counts say it is there right only but they abide by the choice (still a civil war)
1999 Mordheim destroyed by twin tailed comet (divine wrath)
Around this time Vlad Von Carstein becomes a vampire and attacks empire in 2010
Mannfred Von Carstien (why he isnt a leader in the mod is a bit bizzare) is killed in 2145 last of Von Carstiens (thank Sigmar) at Hel Fen
2302 stuff begins to go bad heralding chaos great incursion, attack across River Lynsk (Kislev) and destroy Praag, no emperor (still civil war). The people turn to Magnus of Nuln later called Magnus the pious. Wrote books like "On the hundred names of evil" and speeches like "The overthrow of Chaos" and "Sigmar's people" elector counts decide to follow him and all of them march to fight chaos (a long time since they had done anything together). Battle of the gates of Kislev (city) Magnus and the men of the empire and the Tzar of Kislev and a large force of Dwarves (from Karaz a Karak) vs Chaos with all the various manifestations of Chaos... Chaos is defeated and its power is broken for a generation. He also legalizes magic to combat chaos, elven wizards Fineir, Yrtle and Techlis start schools of magic and create the 8 order, Light (light magic), Golden (metals), Jade (life), Grey (shadow), Celestial (heavens), Amethyst (death), Bright (fire) and the Amber (beasts) all of which have headquarters in Altdorf
2304 Magnus is elected Emperor (even though he isnt an elector, its demanded by the people) and makes his capital Nuln. First sole emperor in almost a thousand years he rebuilds the empire.
2429 Marienburg buys its independance from Emperor Dieter IV he was deposed for it. Wilhelm Prince of Altdorf is elected emperor.
2502 Karl Franz son of Wilhelm is elected Emperor destroys Orc attack at Blackfire pass and ushers in era of imperial glory
next issue is the war against Chaos "What were (nations) they doing" special mention to Brettonia who did nothing...
Will work on thinking of unique traits for each civ also gathering material for a map or for someone else to do it
. Will add more detail to it in a later post
Not sure how to represent it in game though...
Brief History of the Empire... just to show exactly how fractious it is... and why it isnt really a single nation
Birth of Sigmar Unknown heralded by twin tailed comet
Age 15 saves Dwarf King Kurgan Ironbeard gifted with Ghal Maraz
sometime later unites tribes and defeats orcs at Blackfire pass
Year 1 of the Imperial calender Sigmar is crowned Emperor (doesnt include Kislev to far away but they are friendly to Sigmar much the same with Brettonia)
Sigmar rules 32 years till he leaves to the east
year 73 Johan Helstrum becomes first priest of Sigmar
1111 (empire in trouble during intrim) Black Plauge for 4 year 9 out of 10 die
1115 Boris Goldgather dies (hated)
1124 Mandred Ratcatcher drives out rats beasts
when Mandred dies the empire descends into civil war killed by rat beasts...
Empire divided into 2 parts Electorate Emperors and Ottilian Emperors of Tabecland division started in 1360 during which time Empress Ottilia (first empress?) rules for a brief time
1547 another claiment to the throne enters the fray the Count of Middenheim proclaimed himself Emperor in the name of Ulric the wolf god
Age of three Emperors massive civil war
1707 Gorbad Ironclaw defeats count Eldred of Solland, destroys Solland and takes his Runefang (sword of office of an elector count but also really powerful (not in game terms *cry*) sacks, defeats count of Wissenland at the battle of Grunberg (to the south of Altdorf) besieges Altdorf Sigismund killed the Electorate Emperor killed by a great beast... Orcs defeated (YAY)
1979 Margritta of Marienburg becomes Empress of the Electors, Grand Theogonist strikes it down counts say it is there right only but they abide by the choice (still a civil war)
1999 Mordheim destroyed by twin tailed comet (divine wrath)
Around this time Vlad Von Carstein becomes a vampire and attacks empire in 2010
Mannfred Von Carstien (why he isnt a leader in the mod is a bit bizzare
) is killed in 2145 last of Von Carstiens (thank Sigmar) at Hel Fen2302 stuff begins to go bad heralding chaos great incursion, attack across River Lynsk (Kislev) and destroy Praag, no emperor (still civil war). The people turn to Magnus of Nuln later called Magnus the pious. Wrote books like "On the hundred names of evil" and speeches like "The overthrow of Chaos" and "Sigmar's people" elector counts decide to follow him and all of them march to fight chaos (a long time since they had done anything together). Battle of the gates of Kislev (city) Magnus and the men of the empire and the Tzar of Kislev and a large force of Dwarves (from Karaz a Karak) vs Chaos with all the various manifestations of Chaos... Chaos is defeated and its power is broken for a generation. He also legalizes magic to combat chaos, elven wizards Fineir, Yrtle and Techlis start schools of magic and create the 8 order, Light (light magic), Golden (metals), Jade (life), Grey (shadow), Celestial (heavens), Amethyst (death), Bright (fire) and the Amber (beasts) all of which have headquarters in Altdorf
2304 Magnus is elected Emperor (even though he isnt an elector, its demanded by the people) and makes his capital Nuln
. First sole emperor in almost a thousand years he rebuilds the empire.2429 Marienburg buys its independance from Emperor Dieter IV he was deposed for it. Wilhelm Prince of Altdorf is elected emperor.
2502 Karl Franz son of Wilhelm is elected Emperor destroys Orc attack at Blackfire pass and ushers in era of imperial glory
next issue is the war against Chaos "What were (nations) they doing" special mention to Brettonia who did nothing...
Will work on thinking of unique traits for each civ also gathering material for a map or for someone else to do it
Ploeperpengel
academic precarity
Just two words: Thx for your ideas Masada. Even if I don't respond to everything. Anyone posting ideas here can be assured I'll have a close look at the postings here and consider them.
About Trait Arcane: +10 science is only temporary. We are planning to introduce a magic commerce with a separate "techtree" for magic abilities(winds of magic) so later this trait is supposed to let the winds of magic blow stronger and possibly have other effects on magic as well. But that's future talk right now.
I don't think I will use a diplomatic trait for any of the civs. Instead I'll try to set the AI to values that make all civs hating or loving each other as they are supposed to. Any general diplobonus would only make this task harder.
If you want to discuss civics I suggest to wait for the warlordsversion so you can see what's already in there. Just the last civicoption "knowledge" could need some suggestions right now. Civics should be as generic as possible though.
My suggestions for now:
Ancient Wisdom(default)
Covens
Academies(tech philosophy)
Religious Schools(tech monasticism)
Military Schools(tech military tradition)
These civics should mainly represent how the societies elite is mainly educated and/or knowledge is preserved.
About Trait Arcane: +10 science is only temporary. We are planning to introduce a magic commerce with a separate "techtree" for magic abilities(winds of magic) so later this trait is supposed to let the winds of magic blow stronger and possibly have other effects on magic as well. But that's future talk right now.
I don't think I will use a diplomatic trait for any of the civs. Instead I'll try to set the AI to values that make all civs hating or loving each other as they are supposed to. Any general diplobonus would only make this task harder.
If you want to discuss civics I suggest to wait for the warlordsversion so you can see what's already in there. Just the last civicoption "knowledge" could need some suggestions right now. Civics should be as generic as possible though.
My suggestions for now:
Ancient Wisdom(default)
Covens
Academies(tech philosophy)
Religious Schools(tech monasticism)
Military Schools(tech military tradition)
These civics should mainly represent how the societies elite is mainly educated and/or knowledge is preserved.
thx Ploeperpengel im just shooting ideas around left right and center maybe something will take root... maybe it wont but oh well
Good idea about not having generic "good" "neutral" "evil" because in warhammer it doesnt really work... Chaos is evil but Chaos doesnt get along with Greenskins even though greenskins are evil (in a racial sense so is it really evil?)
so rather than good etc warhammers style is different ... with Chaos including the Horde of Chaos, Beastmen, Chaos dwarfves etc even then they dont always get along...
its not high fantasy (anymore) thank god for that its gothic and its (thank god) not clear cut
Education is right not sure about covens unless its an evil tech? what about home education (call it governors or something along those lines)
going to need to buy warlords to play the new version but oh well had to do it sometime...
no map making for me Phyhic_Lhamas has that under control i hope
Good idea about not having generic "good" "neutral" "evil" because in warhammer it doesnt really work... Chaos is evil but Chaos doesnt get along with Greenskins even though greenskins are evil (in a racial sense so is it really evil?)
so rather than good etc warhammers style is different ... with Chaos including the Horde of Chaos, Beastmen, Chaos dwarfves etc even then they dont always get along...
its not high fantasy (anymore) thank god for that its gothic and its (thank god) not clear cut Education is right
not sure about covens unless its an evil tech? what about home education (call it governors or something along those lines)going to need to buy warlords to play the new version but oh well had to do it sometime...
no map making for me
Phyhic_Lhamas has that under control i hope
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
Sorry, why would covens be evil?? is it because witches work in covens? because thats a very common misconception that witches are evil. in the real world whitches DO NOT worship satan, they worshipnature and the living world, they are infact the most peaceful group of people, and is one of the most peaceful philosophies in the world, alnongside buddism. Sorry, had to say that
Nice to hear from ya Ploe Ok ill try to stick to religion and education with the civics I like those education civics so far, have you thought of anything for them to do yet? or should we brainstorm that?
@ Masada: thats alot of interesting background on the Empire and Kislev. i have the Empire rule book, and i didnt know that i should really go through that again.
However, the imperialistic trait isnt supposed to represent the entire time period, only the period of that ruler (thats what traits are ), i personally see Karl Franz and magnus as imperialistic, as magnus helped reconstruct the empire, and franz is soldifying it.
is it because witches work in covens? because thats a very common misconception that witches are evil. in the real world whitches DO NOT worship satan, they worshipnature and the living world, they are infact the most peaceful group of people, and is one of the most peaceful philosophies in the world, alnongside buddism. Sorry, had to say that Nice to hear from ya Ploe
Ok ill try to stick to religion and education with the civics I like those education civics so far, have you thought of anything for them to do yet? or should we brainstorm that?@ Masada: thats alot of interesting background on the Empire and Kislev. i have the Empire rule book, and i didnt know that
i should really go through that again.However, the imperialistic trait isnt supposed to represent the entire time period, only the period of that ruler (thats what traits are
), i personally see Karl Franz and magnus as imperialistic, as magnus helped reconstruct the empire, and franz is soldifying it.Similar threads
