Warhammer Fantasy Battles Mod Brainstorm Thread
- Thread starter Psychic_Llamas
- Start date
would it be possible to have a variable rate of maintance costs dependant on the age... or on an invisable building or buildings...
my reasoning is that using a building right at the start would be reason enough for me to turn off my science rate... mass build cities and use inferior troops to overun the enemy... spam catapults.. and swordsmen for instance.. mass suicide catapults and then attack in waves...
or something along those lines...
maintance is a big problem it is crippling in the start... and dropping down to the 10-30% science that i can squeeze out of my empire is rather frustrating...
if the first part of the game is low maintance... that really means high income... even with the lack of improvements to generate capital... instead of that you can just spam cities, have a massive paper tiger military and bully the AI like crazy... last time i checked the AI took more stock of numbers than promotions and small numbers of better units...
Possilbe solutions..
-having a lower capital generation offset by a lower maintance cost... by lower i mean a penalty... which allows you to get a fairly large empire... but when you flick ages you get a corrosponding increase in capital generation at the cost of maintance... as well as buildings to increase your capital
-having just a low maintance cost... well massive armies and lots of cities beckon...
-having just a low unit cost... much the same as just having low maintance...
-toning down the cost of techs in the early age... means that you can run on 10-20% reasearch and still progress... probably the easiest fix.. just means that the early period gets a bit skipped...
With that in mind we probably want to ask ourselves what do we want in an early age... do we want the time to play around with our new mages etc... or do we want to get to the good stuff pronto...
my reasoning is that using a building right at the start would be reason enough for me to turn off my science rate... mass build cities and use inferior troops to overun the enemy... spam catapults.. and swordsmen for instance.. mass suicide catapults and then attack in waves...
or something along those lines...
maintance is a big problem it is crippling in the start... and dropping down to the 10-30% science that i can squeeze out of my empire is rather frustrating...
if the first part of the game is low maintance... that really means high income... even with the lack of improvements to generate capital... instead of that you can just spam cities, have a massive paper tiger military and bully the AI like crazy... last time i checked the AI took more stock of numbers than promotions and small numbers of better units...
Possilbe solutions..
-having a lower capital generation offset by a lower maintance cost... by lower i mean a penalty... which allows you to get a fairly large empire... but when you flick ages you get a corrosponding increase in capital generation at the cost of maintance... as well as buildings to increase your capital
-having just a low maintance cost... well massive armies and lots of cities beckon...
-having just a low unit cost... much the same as just having low maintance...
-toning down the cost of techs in the early age... means that you can run on 10-20% reasearch and still progress... probably the easiest fix.. just means that the early period gets a bit skipped...
With that in mind we probably want to ask ourselves what do we want in an early age... do we want the time to play around with our new mages etc... or do we want to get to the good stuff pronto...
Ploeperpengel
academic precarity
I suggest we first test the game with the new settings for buildings. Remember low maintenance per building doesn't mean you can really effort a massive army with it as unitupkeep still keeps expensive(the same).
A variable maintenance rate is btw technically out of bounds for us atm.
The early era shouldn't take forever but about 200 turns would be fine with me. I think that's about what it is like now. I don't want it to be as long as FFH since we don't emphasize exploration that much but a bit longer than vanilla wouldn't hurt and players indeed should be motivated to start at least limited wars already.
However balancing unit-, building- and techcosts is what we really need to do in order to have a smooth gameplayprogress.
About the AI. That will be a lot better with the new expansion allthough we'll miss a couple of beloved gamemechanics since without a programmer I'll have to drop the sdk.
A variable maintenance rate is btw technically out of bounds for us atm.
The early era shouldn't take forever but about 200 turns would be fine with me. I think that's about what it is like now. I don't want it to be as long as FFH since we don't emphasize exploration that much but a bit longer than vanilla wouldn't hurt and players indeed should be motivated to start at least limited wars already.
However balancing unit-, building- and techcosts is what we really need to do in order to have a smooth gameplayprogress.
About the AI. That will be a lot better with the new expansion allthough we'll miss a couple of beloved gamemechanics since without a programmer I'll have to drop the sdk.
i guess it doesnt Pleo... but the decrease in the building up keep... if it was say by 50% would still represent a fairly large increase in the amount of units you are able to maintain..
200 turns seems about right...
yeah balancing buidlings and the like is probably the most important thing atm... that and its not all that hard to do
one sometimes wishes that the world were easier... in a perfect world... you can guess what would happen... if i may ask what are the functions we are giving up?
200 turns seems about right...
yeah balancing buidlings and the like is probably the most important thing atm... that and its not all that hard to do
one sometimes wishes that the world were easier... in a perfect world... you can guess what would happen... if i may ask what are the functions we are giving up?
Ploeperpengel
academic precarity
Until a programmer joins up everything that's not vanilla I fear - at least for now. It has an advantage.
-It will be a lot easier to convert to BTS at first.
-We can make sure the xml is nice and clean. Before codestuff gets applied.
Later we can hopefully readd new functions. I'll try to learn some coding at least enough to merge existing mods. FFH is going to convert to BTS as well so after BTS gets released(2-3 months probably) we could start stealing mechanics.
Animosity and Animalgold are currently the only features I definitly know to work - it should somehow be possible to convert them later on. The rest are modcomps and Olleus' work who explained to me he won't help us anymore cleaning up the mess he left for us.
As far as the early age goes, 200 turns seems good to me also, maybe a bit longer - im the sort of player who likes his games to take a long time, that way every new tech has a real impact on the gameplay and if it includes warriors it can really affect battles, which in my games seem to happen very early and never really cease. But I dont want to be in a position where my tech research is down and AI's is high so i have no chance of winning battles unless i send loads of units to be slaughtered - I want even gameplay with the AI - so when i research a better unit I can kick its ass for a bit.
I think, even though with lower maintenance costs you will get a bonus in terms of more units aswell this will not be too big, as Ploep said, unit costs will still be the same and maybe the AI will adapt too when they see that it becomes easier to have more units aswell as well-trained units.
I feel to stop large empires occuring, quickly at least, the time taken for the settler to be built should maybe be raised by a little - not only will this mean you wont be able to have loads of settlers wondering around founding cities but also that the expansionist trait could have a real affect on the game.
Can I ask what does animosity affect?
I think, even though with lower maintenance costs you will get a bonus in terms of more units aswell this will not be too big, as Ploep said, unit costs will still be the same and maybe the AI will adapt too when they see that it becomes easier to have more units aswell as well-trained units.
I feel to stop large empires occuring, quickly at least, the time taken for the settler to be built should maybe be raised by a little - not only will this mean you wont be able to have loads of settlers wondering around founding cities but also that the expansionist trait could have a real affect on the game.
Can I ask what does animosity affect?
Ploeperpengel
academic precarity
Animosity is what greenskins suffer towards another. Every turn there's a small chance greenskins in the same or adjacted tile start squabbling, fighting each other or even enthusiatically run towards the nearest enemy in order to show the others who's best.
Black Orcs who have discipline quell animosity. No lesser greenskin will dare to leave his position if a fearsome Black Orc is around.
Black Orcs who have discipline quell animosity. No lesser greenskin will dare to leave his position if a fearsome Black Orc is around.
for an expansion thats only minimal loses... quite acceptable... stealing code is probably the best way of doing things get all the stuff we can do nice and polished... then we can start playing around
this might seem odd... but i enjoy playing the early ages in vanilla... for me the best part of the game is the start gradual teching and an investment in the game... getting knights then finnally getting my favourite weapon cavalry... after that i tend to find the combat is to free flowing theres to different stuff... and well i dont like it :O
I think the mod as it is atm has fairly nice pacing.... you amble through quite nicely... the main problem is that your tech can grind down... and you spend 100 turns trying to get markets :O (which would explain what were doing.. )
Settler time build increase... that would be interesting... it would limit sprawl.. and it might help the AI along a bit... the AI cant bankrupt itself because it has a large empire if it cant have said large empire... and expantionistic would certainly get a boost
this might seem odd... but i enjoy playing the early ages in vanilla... for me the best part of the game is the start gradual teching and an investment in the game... getting knights then finnally getting my favourite weapon cavalry... after that i tend to find the combat is to free flowing theres to different stuff... and well i dont like it :O
I think the mod as it is atm has fairly nice pacing.... you amble through quite nicely... the main problem is that your tech can grind down... and you spend 100 turns trying to get markets :O (which would explain what were doing.. )
Settler time build increase... that would be interesting... it would limit sprawl.. and it might help the AI along a bit... the AI cant bankrupt itself because it has a large empire if it cant have said large empire... and expantionistic would certainly get a boost
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
I agree that Eldar Counsils give -50% mainanence then become obsolete with court houses.
i also agree that courthouse (30%) +jail(10%) + gallows(10%) should give a cumulative -50% mainantence.
what are our current financial buildings (ie buildings that produce gold) and what do they do?
I also agree that settlers should have an increased production time, but not TOO much. i hate waiting for settlers to build
i also agree that Expansionists should have a % decrease in the build time of settlers, i would suddenly love that trait
is it also possible to let expansionist leaders get a Special building, that only expansionist leaders can build??? if so, i would also like it if expansionists could build another maintanence reducing building that give -10% maintanence, that does not obsoleat and is avaliable in the early era. maybe a 'tablet of commandments' or something along those lines.
i also agree that courthouse (30%) +jail(10%) + gallows(10%) should give a cumulative -50% mainantence.
what are our current financial buildings (ie buildings that produce gold) and what do they do?
I also agree that settlers should have an increased production time, but not TOO much. i hate waiting for settlers to build
i also agree that Expansionists should have a % decrease in the build time of settlers, i would suddenly love that trait
is it also possible to let expansionist leaders get a Special building, that only expansionist leaders can build??? if so, i would also like it if expansionists could build another maintanence reducing building that give -10% maintanence, that does not obsoleat and is avaliable in the early era. maybe a 'tablet of commandments' or something along those lines.
Genesis_26317
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2007
- Messages
- 30
I hate to ask but would it be an agreeable idea to instead of flooding the tribes with "outsiders" Ind, Cathay, Nippon, Ungal Dolgan etc etc to instead make multiple Chaos factions, Orc faction etc.
This would make it look a lot more like actual Warhammer, defending against Orc's or playing as an Orc and allying with the other Orc's to assault the humans is lot more "realistic" and entertaining than just a jumble of semi-historical races filling in the empty places between the Vampire counts and the Empire.
The Ungols, Araby, Nippon, Ind etc aren't even really fantasy. If I wanted to play as them there are a lot of other packs that cover their aspects in a more complete manner.
This would make it look a lot more like actual Warhammer, defending against Orc's or playing as an Orc and allying with the other Orc's to assault the humans is lot more "realistic" and entertaining than just a jumble of semi-historical races filling in the empty places between the Vampire counts and the Empire.
The Ungols, Araby, Nippon, Ind etc aren't even really fantasy. If I wanted to play as them there are a lot of other packs that cover their aspects in a more complete manner.
I think that each race, including ones such as Tilea, Ind etc, are significant in the warhammer game and I wouldnt want them to be taken out. They are actually included in warhammer stories and battles. However about the different factions - im not sure but i think it is already possible to have more than one orc race in a game, you just have to make sure they have different leaders - if this is the case then if there were more leaders for say orcs and chaos you could have your different factions and have orcs at war with each other or ally as a great orc force. As i said im not sure so you would have to check.
I think for now though there are quite a few more priorities before you would get any new orc or chaos leaders.
just a query what the hell is between the Vampire Counts and the Empire... isnt Slyvania still a province of the Empire and are the Von Carstiens still not the Electors of that province (they stil consider themselves electors. while they dont have there runefang.. i dont think that alone can disavow them)... are you saying we need the moot to be in the mod... cause that would be awesome i mean talk about a fantasy army... hobbits... they are the whole fantasy genre... (sorry Halflings.. cant have GM getting sued over that)...
Pleo we need halflings... the people are at the gates demanding it!!!!!!!!
And just a query... what makes Ind, Cathay, Nippon, Ungols and Dolgans any less fantasy... (Dolgans are one of the tribes of chaos btw) i would direct this to Pleo.. he knows more about WFRP than i do.. (which is actually in many ways superior to the normal WF canon.. which seems to contradict and recorrect itself quite a bit)...
A special building for expansionist civilizations would be good... probably needs a trade off though... hmmm
Pleo we need halflings... the people are at the gates demanding it!!!!!!!!
And just a query... what makes Ind, Cathay, Nippon, Ungols and Dolgans any less fantasy... (Dolgans are one of the tribes of chaos btw) i would direct this to Pleo.. he knows more about WFRP than i do.. (which is actually in many ways superior to the normal WF canon.. which seems to contradict and recorrect itself quite a bit)...
A special building for expansionist civilizations would be good... probably needs a trade off though... hmmm
Ploeperpengel
academic precarity
Nah, no halfling army. that's wicked.
The empire will get the hot pot and a few halfling troops they already a have(scout, explorer), if you can invent some more flavorful halfling units that'd be ok. But for a civ? Well there's a LOTR Mod going on...
Ungols, Nippon, Cathay etc. for me are as much important to get the WH feel as orcs. WH history simply wouln't work without those nations. Just because GW only concentrates on a few bestseller armies I won't neglect them either. And as ronin said yes you can have more factions of orcs in the game. More Leaders for them is something that can be discussed but there are other priorities right now.
About Greenskins is currently planned(or already in):
Orcs(2 Leaders)
Goblins(2 Leaders)
Hobgoblins(1 Leader)
Makes 5 possible factions by default. Scenario makers can easily make more just by editing worldbuildersaves.
The empire will get the hot pot and a few halfling troops they already a have(scout, explorer), if you can invent some more flavorful halfling units that'd be ok. But for a civ? Well there's a LOTR Mod going on...
Ungols, Nippon, Cathay etc. for me are as much important to get the WH feel as orcs. WH history simply wouln't work without those nations. Just because GW only concentrates on a few bestseller armies I won't neglect them either. And as ronin said yes you can have more factions of orcs in the game. More Leaders for them is something that can be discussed but there are other priorities right now.
About Greenskins is currently planned(or already in):
Orcs(2 Leaders)
Goblins(2 Leaders)
Hobgoblins(1 Leader)
Makes 5 possible factions by default. Scenario makers can easily make more just by editing worldbuildersaves.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
Good God Man! how can you even suggest somthing like that!!
(i hope this isnt taken the wrong way, but) perhaps you should research the 'outsiders' a bit, then you will understand why they are an integral part of Warhammer. to me, saying we should get rid of Ind Cathay, Nippon, Ungol and Dolga, is like saying we should expell Asia and Australia from Earth. (of course, i live in Australia, so i wouldnt like that
)i could go into a huge histoical argument about those races, but, seeing is ive already done that (in one of the stickies in the public forum..."so what is this warhammer thing anyway")
(by the way, i do not mean for this to sound like im angry, i actually laughed when i read that. the same thing is a running joke between me and one of my friends
@ Revlid: i didnt even know there WERE any 'real' leaders for the hobgoblins
so i expect that yes Gorduz Backstabba will get a look in. do you have any background on him? (if you do maybe you'd like to post it in the "so what is this warhammer thing anyway?" thread so i can add it to the collection )Going back to having a unique building for expansionist trait - I think that its probably a good idea but, as Masada says, its going to need a trade off so other traits have an edge in other areas - which would mean unique buildings for all traits. And that doesnt sound like such a bad idea
- for financial, a building that gives unique wealth increase
- seafaring, building that gives all naval vessals 10% defence bonus
- aggressive, maybe slightly lower unit costs
and so on...
As for new halfling units - not that this is new but could'nt you make the explorer halfling better, more like veteran warriors - with better movement through jungle and forest (if not already given).
Also (if created) give them the ambushing upgrade option that i mentioned previously.
- for financial, a building that gives unique wealth increase
- seafaring, building that gives all naval vessals 10% defence bonus
- aggressive, maybe slightly lower unit costs
and so on...
As for new halfling units - not that this is new but could'nt you make the explorer halfling better, more like veteran warriors - with better movement through jungle and forest (if not already given).
Also (if created) give them the ambushing upgrade option that i mentioned previously.
Ploeperpengel
academic precarity
Sorry to disappoint you guys but there's no such thing as a unique building for traits. There are only unique buildings for civs
Traits can only give productionboni to buildings or units.
About halflings I thought they could be invisible like spies - but this is maybe too powerful?
@PL
Actually your Warhammerinfothread is still private. If you want it public you'll have to move it here
Traits can only give productionboni to buildings or units.
About halflings I thought they could be invisible like spies - but this is maybe too powerful?
@PL
Actually your Warhammerinfothread is still private. If you want it public you'll have to move it here
Ploeperpengel
academic precarity
On the contrary. Just not for traits but I could use some input on civ unique buildings.
We could make them unable to pillage. And we could make them partly visible like submarines. Question would be what kind of units should be able to see them?
funny world... what was meant as a joke... well.... all i need to say is
Halflings are going to overrun the world, furry hoof things are soon to crush your face into the ground, furry madmen are soon to overrun your city and furry hands are taking up the weapons of halfling doom... alchol the end of civilization as we know it approaches...
Halflings are going to overrun the world, furry hoof things are soon to crush your face into the ground, furry madmen are soon to overrun your city and furry hands are taking up the weapons of halfling doom... alchol the end of civilization as we know it approaches...
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