Warlords Challenge: What can you do with a kind word and a gun?

[carl corey]

I played a few turns with each save and had no problems.

Thanks for testing. I would have done it myself but didn't have the time.

Played as Mehmed to 1700, gunpowder in 1100.

Yeap, that seems more like a standard route to play. Anyway, this is clearly map dependent. I'm not sure it's worth beelining if you have lots of good city sites that no-one settles. On the other hand, a map where you get boxed it would lend itself to braking out with those Janissaries. Or you could deliberately slow your expansion just to get them faster. Do you have a save from your game? Would be interesting to compare it to other games.

1 for three on attempts this morning. The first two tries I was caught by barbarians, the third, I did get the Janisaries by 1350 AD, but a neighbour had rifles by then.

I guess I just wasn't ready for Monarch...

This afternoon I went back to Warlord...

Well, since I discovered those marvelous XML files that the WorldBuilder provides I can easily modify a save to lower the difficulty level. Just say which one you'd like to try, and at what difficulty and I'll post a save.

Played as XIV. Got GP in 960, 5 muskets by 1100. Didn't play past that as based on calculations and some flaws in execution -- trying again tonight.

Played as Louis XIV on both High Road (via Education) and Low Road (via Guilds).

High Road: Gunpowder in 640 AD. 5 Muskets in 760 AD.
Low Road: Gunpowder in 620 AD. 5 Muskets in 740 AD.

Interesting routes. I guess there's more than meets the eye. And 620/640AD seems a very good date. I'll try to look at the saves sometimes soon to see what the general situation is. But the strategy does seem viable, doesn't it?

 

[Jet]

I'm not sure it's worth beelining if you have lots of good city sites that no-one settles. On the other hand, a map where you get boxed it would lend itself to braking out with those Janissaries.

I don't follow you. In the first case, why not settle the good sites, beeline, and use Janissaries to get more? In the second case, why not break out with Axemen or Macemen or Trebuchets or whatever?

Do you have a save from your game? Would be interesting to compare it to other games.

1100 save
1700 save
The 1700 one is embarrassing, Stalin is handing my ass to me after DENYING my poorly-executed invasion. But basically these two show before and after Janissaries.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

I just tried to move up to Noble after a couple easy wins on Warlord. But for trying a new strategy, I'd drop back a level.

I'll have to have a look at these XML files...

 

[idiot_savant]

Yeap, that seems more like a standard route to play. Anyway, this is clearly map dependent. I'm not sure it's worth beelining if you have lots of good city sites that no-one settles. On the other hand, a map where you get boxed it would lend itself to braking out with those Janissaries.

I think you are correct about map-dependence. The way I worked through this was to have a very good GP farm which the initial location does very well. It does seem like you could simply expand cities further than what I have been doing, but I'm not sure that yields as much.

The biggest benefit of playing with the Ottomans is city-size. You can generate fairly large cities quickly if you build enough workers (which cost-wise is easy). I think that this naturally lends itself to what I called the High Road where you can get Nationalism quickly for drafting.

But the strategy does seem viable, doesn't it?

Yes, it does.

Spoiler :

I haven't been able to pull off same timing with Ottomans as Louis just yet, though I did hit the mid 700s last night in my first try via Education. My GSs didn't come out with the same precision as I had done previously and got put off by an early war with Qin. 3 things still bother me about this gambit:

1) Against well-promoted LBs, you don't seem to have much advantage versus Macemen & CRs.

2) I am spending a lot of time researching techs that I wouldn't normally have done (ie. Theology or Feudalism/Guilds). While Theology is simple, it does require you to burn your GPriest as opposed to using him for a shrine. The shrine allows for a better economy. F/G are just very expensive techs that are hard to lightbulb 'cause of how Guilds pops on GMs. If I could figure out a better way to ensure a Guild pop, I would be happier. Guilds has great side benefits by the way in terms of mixed military. But again generating enough units quickly requires a lot of whipping.

3) Similar to 1 above, against the well-teching AIs, I don't feel I get a great advantage. As Nappy in a separate test, I was able to wipe the floor with Egypt as Hatty had tech'd away from military. I am also able to do that with Qin on this map. Huanya and Stalin are both well tech'd each time I pop GP, and I probably need to tech to Chem to finish them. Via Education, this will divert a GS from Liberalism to Engineering to make Chem available -- but on this map it is easy to generate more GSs. Via Guilds, I need as many as 3 GSs because Chem is ultra-expensive. In other words, I feel like I have an advantage on some.

 

[Mutineer]

Ok, I played this position just for fun.

I just got Gunpowder and I allredy have Nationalism.
It is Specialist economy, so after Golden age runs out one can revolt to nationalism and go kill everyone with Drafted Jenissaries, or what ever there name is.

This starting position let to incredible peasefull builder advantage, no need to beeline.
Load save and look on my capital.

Befor I started golden age capital were making about 200 GP points/turn.

General position, all cities founded.

Tech situation:

 

[UncleJJ]

Very impressive mutineer, you're just ready to draft a load of Janissaries. It just shows the power of the Caste System and GPs, you are on your 10th already and it's only 920 AD. Your collection of wonders isn't too shabby either.