[Warlords] Composite XL More of Everything!

Ket · Sep 21, 2006

Version .6 Uploading
No this time really.

Final Build Notes:

Spoiler :

wotan321 · Sep 21, 2006

What is the mod componant that numbers the units when they are built? Can I turn that off? Its kind of annoying when you upgrade and your infantry unit is still called Warrior 4.

Scrumhalf01 · Sep 21, 2006

Downloading now...can't wait to try it out!

Thanks!

keldath · Sep 21, 2006

hey ket, your progress is impressive.

i was wndering if thismod works under mp game?

Arlborn · Sep 21, 2006

Ket said:
A note regarding multi-player:

It would seem that in order to get this to work in multiplayer it would take a good deal of pulling out the existing python. I think I'm going to make a decision to not currently support multiplayer, unless this turns out to be easier than I think it is in the Pre-1.0 and 1.0 versions. I may add multiplayer support in XL 2.0.....

Instead I will focus on multiplayer with my "Unaltered But Flavorful" mod

Also I need some assistance.
Currently we are in need of movie makers for the new wonders (plus the community could really use the movies for Impalers wonderful movie pack)
And we are also in need of static artists to create .DDS screens for the wonders that do not have movies...

In .6 you will see some screens Roamty just threw together for us.

I also need someone who knows the main menu to modify it. I have a new main menu (I hated the warlords one) But all my attempts at modifying the logo have created hell so I have left the logo....none the less I hope you like the new main menu and intro music

Sorry Kel

Aragorn7 · Sep 21, 2006

Just a question about the religions in your mod. Why ain´t there any "Hellenism" religion or a Heathen religion like the one the Vikings believed in. Do u have any plans of implementing Eusebius´ Religion Mod?

Aragorn7

Ket · Sep 21, 2006

wotan321,
Unit Statistics.ini file has the settings to turn that off, although you will loose stats carrying over when you upgrade. You can also manually rename the unit and there will be other naming engines.

Kel,
Seems like unless a good deal of the python mods where coded to take multiplayer into account they will just OOS...
So no...

Aragorn,
Maybe...waiting for it to evolve a bit first. Not till post 1.0 thats for sure. 43 Nations are going in soon... my hands will be very busy...

Colin · Sep 21, 2006

Had my first game of .6 tonight, it was short and deadly, as Barbarians wiped me out (along with a host of other civs) pretty quick. Have barbarian settings been altered at all? If so I'd urge you to change them back.
I was on noble difficulty, endurance speed, with raging barbs, but the first barbarians to appear were axemen at around turn 70. I hadn't even got archers by that point and my warriors were butchered pretty mercilessly.
Now I know raging barbs is supposed to be tough, and I'm not the greatest player, but should axemen be appearing so soon?

darkedone02 · Sep 21, 2006

man the new mod really hit the lag part a lot. Lag during classical era is too crazy.

GRM7584 · Sep 21, 2006

Shinto founding sound should probably be...er...altered. Its rather loud and sharp compared to other game sounds.

Edit: I'm also not sure it warrants its own tech. I think it might be better placed at ---
Pottery (As it was rooted in agricultural shamanic traditions)
*or*
Sailing (As it was the result of cultural syncretism between japanese and korean/chinese/indonesian immigrants)

Possible even later, as it wouldn't be "founded" in a conventional sense until at least after Confucianism and Taoism, but using a loose interpretation of founding (as exists for Hinduism in the current setup) you could maybe push it back to 1000 BC. Of course, Japan was still in a practical stone age then, so using an even looser interpretation you could still put it at something like pottery or sailing. If you keep it in the current setup, I think it would be good to increase the cost of the tech and/or add something else to the tech, so it isn't a one-hit thing that the non-founding AIs will ignore the rest of the game.

Edit 2: Axeman are definitely showing up a lot earlier. It wouldn't be a huge problem, but apart from chariots and other axemen there's no counter for Axes. They're showing up before I even have a second city down, let alone a connection to horses or copper (unless I was lucky and got one of the two in my city radius...not in this case, tho).

Edit 3: And there is definitely severe lag by the classical age. It seems to gradually increase, rather than "jump up" at some point, so it would seem to be due to either a leak or a feature that is active from the start.
Edit 3.1: Weird. Alt-tabbing and re-entering the game seems to eliminate the lag, but then it builds up again. Graphics?

doompigeon · Sep 21, 2006

To start with... this is an AWESOME mod.

There's countless things I could be singing the praises of, and I have noticed very few flaws, all but one of which got fixed going to .7

The one I didn't see in the spoiler is whether or not you fixed the problem global warming happening too quickly. I was playing a game in which a single ICBM was launched and for the rest of the game my country slowly decayed into desert. Is it possible to turn global warming off? (and too bad there isn't an option like that for the real world, too! *San Franciscan upbringing shines through*)

wotan321 · Sep 21, 2006

I have a question about game speed and formations. It seems logical that the many 3d figures that make up each unit would require much more memory usage than a single figure would. Am I just confused?

I too notice huge lag times between turns on the maps with fewer cities than I am used to.

The mod is fantastic, but I wonder if what I am seeing is just me or do formations require a good deal more memory?

Ket · Sep 21, 2006

I'll tackle this one by subject...

Barbarians:
Didn't you see the screenshot of the barbarians building the spaceship??? :scan:

Yes barbarians where beefed eventualy they are planned for even more beef.

The major change is that due to pirates mod, they have bronze working to begin with so its possible for them to spawn axe as soon as they get one hooked up. (if not just spawn them)

So A combination of a slower speed, larger map and raging barbarians is going to be a tough early game. Making a be-line for great wall and then GE slingshot build of a second wonder a good strat.

That being said I have no problems removing the bronze working which should tone them down to the levels you expect. I would just like to get some feedback first on map sizes and speeds and see if its just ampified by the FX speeds (which I know it is) or if it happens on regular....

Slow Downs:
Looking into it and looking into ways to generaly speed up things. As far as a slow down in classical I dont see a slow down till Industrial. Again map settings, number of civs and game speed are going to be dependent on this as well. Some more data please. I use random maps at standard and quick as my benchmark.... But my simulation games have been "around" the same length yes a slight increase but I attributed that to the new units.

That being said I'm fairly sure we have a raging memory leak somewhere,
So it will just get better when Impaler reviews the code. (I havent seen him all week, he works 24 on 24 off so... he's I'm sure tied up with work)

Shinto:
I implemented Dual's Shinto mod in complete, and did not alter it, so the sounds are from that. Unfortunatly this is something I would have never picked up on as my speakers are dead, and I don't have a spare set. It's going to be a few weeks till I do get speakers. If you can do me a favor GRM: in xml/audio are 2 files to look into
Audio2DScripts.xml
Audio3DScripts.xml
The XML is pretty easy to read just do a find for "Shinto" and change the volume settings till they are correct, and get the files back to me and I will release them with the barbarian patch. (.61)
We can change shinto further back, I wanted to get another early religion, I'm unsure of how to implement another religion due to the religion screen being almost maxed out. I'll see if I can get some python help on that. I'm not going to mess with Zoroastrianism till .8/.9 so I have some time to figure it out.

SlowDowns Part Duex
I'm looking into it. I'm not so sure its the units. If you want to verify you can turn single units on in options. We have found that 8+1 formations are not that bad of a hit perfomance wise, yes more polygons is more polygons but I dont think that is the culprit, again you have the ability to turn formations off. But I'm fairly sure its something else. More data please though size of map, number of civs game speed...ect ect ect...

Nukes
Nukes started at 20 as the value for global warming, we decreased that to half based on GRM's feedback and the fact that I noticed earlier warming as well, so in .5 it was 10... in .6 it was moved to half of that to 5 so yes we did trim it down a bit, I also toned down nukes a tad. If I turn Global Warming Off I'm afraid that Al Gore will kill me.....

In General
Thanks for putting up with all the problems (although to be honest im told we have less problems that a good deal of mods out there) and giving good feedback as it just causes us to have a better mod come version 1.0

GRM7584 · Sep 21, 2006

wotan321 said:
The mod is fantastic, but I wonder if what I am seeing is just me or do formations require a good deal more memory?

It seems to me like it wasn't an issue in previous builds; also, I seem to experience more visible lag when scrolling by 3-unit workers than I do with 9-unit archers, but not enough to be an issue. The turn lag is somewhat confusing to me, as, after a couple more games, it seems like it isn't quite the "gradual build-up" I thought it was, but a constant flux of the stuff...in classical onward, one turn might take 10-12 seconds to process, and the next one is only 1-2. I'm starting to think it may have something to do with religion spread, but I can't say with certainty.

Ket said:
The major change is that due to pirates mod, they have bronze working to begin with so its possible for them to spawn axe as soon as they get one hooked up. (if not just spawn them)

I wouldn't mind it a bit if they had cities and were sending axes from the cities, I mainly take issue with axes spawning in the countryside at turn 50. Its good to beef them up, but I'm also trying to consider the AI, which is good about getting hooked up to bronze asap but might not be as able to deal with early axeman eating their one-archer-guarded settlers in open plains. Its not unreasonable to increase the beef for barbs, but I think a by-numbers approach makes more sense...spawn them like good ol' civ 1, with a stack of 3-8 technologically inferior units just outside your borders and hankerin' for some plunderin'.

Ket · Sep 21, 2006

Balance:

Ever play Ganarts extended mod for 1.61... Me and Impaler are big fans of it, he had some very nice concepts in there, its a shame he abandoned it. One of the things that he had was unit classes had a rock paper scissors feel to it.

Archers units get 100% bonus vs. Melee, Mounted units get 100% bonus vs. Archers, Spear units keep their 100% vs. Mounted, Sword units get City Attack bonus, Artillery gets 100% vs. Armoured Unites, Tanks get 100% vs. Infantry ad so on.

I was thinking about doing an implementation of this for .7... but not 100% something like +25%

Thoughts?

Ket · Sep 21, 2006

GRM7584 said:
It seems to me like it wasn't an issue in previous builds; also, I seem to experience more visible lag when scrolling by 3-unit workers than I do with 9-unit archers, but not enough to be an issue. The turn lag is somewhat confusing to me, as, after a couple more games, it seems like it isn't quite the "gradual build-up" I thought it was, but a constant flux of the stuff...in classical onward, one turn might take 10-12 seconds to process, and the next one is only 1-2. I'm starting to think it may have something to do with religion spread, but I can't say with certainty.

Ok, since you have the benchmark and know what it looks like lets have you test this... if you will

\Assets\Python
CvCustomEventManager.py

Open it up in your editor and make two changes.

Code:

import CvUtil
import CvEventManager
import CvUnitStatisticsEventManager
import CvGreatPersonModEventManager
import CvEnhancedTechConquestEventManager
import CvJUnitReligionEventManager
import CvPiratesModEventManager
#import CvCulturalInfluencesEventManager
import CvCulturalDecayEventManager
import CvEnhancedCultureConquestEventManager
[B]import CvJReligionDecayEventManager[/B]

class CvCustomEventManager(CvEventManager.CvEventManager, object):

    def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):

        super(CvCustomEventManager, self).__init__(*args, **kwargs)

            # map the initial EventHandlerMap values into the new data structure
        for eventType, eventHandler in self.EventHandlerMap.iteritems():
            self.setEventHandler(eventType, eventHandler)

            # --> INSERT EVENT HANDLER INITIALIZATION HERE <--
        CvUnitStatisticsEventManager.CvUnitStatisticsEventManager(self)
        CvGreatPersonModEventManager.CvGreatPersonModEventManager(self)
        CvEnhancedTechConquestEventManager.CvEnhancedTechConquestEventManager(self)
        CvJUnitReligionEventManager.CvJUnitReligionEventManager(self)
        CvPiratesModEventManager.CvPiratesModEventManager(self)
        #CvCulturalInfluencesEventManager.CvCulturalInfluencesEventManager(self)
        CvCulturalDecayEventManager.CvCulturalDecayEventManager(self)
        CvEnhancedCultureConquestEventManager.CvEnhancedCultureConquestEventManager(self)
        [B]CvJReligionDecayEventManager.CvJReligionDecayEventManager(self)[/B]

The two bolded lines comment them out by putting a # in front of them
Python is picky about white space so dont edit in in note pad use something else. Save and check speed... you can do this while the game is going. WAIT why am I telling you about python, you wrote a map script which blows my python out of the water!!!!

GRM7584 · Sep 21, 2006

Ket said:
Balance:

Archers units get 100% bonus vs. Melee, Mounted units get 100% bonus vs. Archers, Spear units keep their 100% vs. Mounted, Sword units get City Attack bonus, Artillery gets 100% vs. Armoured Unites, Tanks get 100% vs. Infantry ad so on.

I was thinking about doing an implementation of this for .7... but not 100% something like +25%

Thoughts?

In a way, that's in vanilla civ. Archers get first strikes, and only Mounted units are immune to that (with flanking, for early ones). If you're going to implement a r/p/s sort of balance, you should make it so at *least* 2 units from different types have a Specific bonus against any given unit type. That is, if Axemen are good against Melee, one other non-Melee Ancient/Classical unit should also be good against Melee. Artillery shouldn't get a bonus against armored, I think gunships and bazookas already fill out that role pretty well.

PS: 2d file attached. If there was a 3d shinto sound in there, it was well-hidden. I tried messing with the pitch but that just removed the sound entirely, so I reduced the volume to about half, and it sounds about in line with the other religions now (although its still tingy and harsh...its tolerable now, at the least)

darkedone02 · Sep 21, 2006

you know, till we reached the right age... make the pirate mod be enabled so that we have pirates pillaging the seas and fighting other nations as well. I also which there was some random events that happen like plagues, baby boom, and all kinds of positive and negative events that affect us, since goody huts will be already over with.

Ket · Sep 21, 2006

Awesome that helps out a lot, once I get my audio system back up, I'll take care of the pitch issue, by throwing it through an audio editor. (sound forge)

I see your over at jdog500's thread, yea you know whats coming next for barbarians then. We've been talking on and off about a way to support revolutions with modified civics... Someone reported a late civ spawn in a previous build as a bug... Was'nt exactly a bug...

I've had civ spawning code in place for a while but its usually the first thing I pull when im debugging so its only made it live in a build or two...

Ket · Sep 21, 2006

Im not even sure if the pirates mod is working properlly I've yet to see barbarians of the sea in any real number

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