Warmonger Penalty (How to avoid)

[rkb]

I've played quite a few games. I have a hard time not obtaining large Warmonger penalties. It appears that in order to avoid warmonger penalties, you must not declare war, and you must not attack anyone unless they're in your territory(and even that might be frowned at). Two situations in previous games gave me incredible warmonger penalties that I question.

The first situation was when China declared war on me. I ignored them for over 1000 years, but they kept pestering me, and would not sue for peace at any price for over half the game. Even as I attacked them, they wouldn't sue for peace even right before obliteration. I obliterated them, and every other civ denounced me. I can kind of understand that, but... I think the warmonger penalties are a little large there.

The second situation, the Aztecs declared war on me which was my first war of the whole game. I liberated Madrid(that the Aztecs had taken over), and returned Spain to the game and didn't take the city for myself. I was able to sue for peace with the Aztecs, and after that, almost every Civ denounced me, including Spain which I just liberated. In this situation, I'm thinking that the warmonger penalties are broken. Either that or I'm missing something fundamental.

Most of the other games, I'm an honest to goodness warmonger.

 

[Bobfregman]

Taking out a Civ will always cause you to incur massive warmonger penalties regardless of any other circumstances. Also worth noting is that the number of "years" is basically irrelevant in the game, turns are what matters as far as penalties go.

Your second example does seem a bit strange though. If he declared war and your only action was to liberate a city you shouldn't have incurred a penalty. You may get some minor penalties for the aggressive action in his territory but I'd expect the liberation bonus to make up for that and then some. What was the peace deal like?

 

[rkb]

Taking out a Civ will always cause you to incur massive warmonger penalties regardless of any other circumstances. Also worth noting is that the number of "years" is basically irrelevant in the game, turns are what matters as far as penalties go.

Yeah, I know it's based on turns, but on a Epic game, sometime before 0AD he declared war, and I took him out after 1200 AD, all the while China refused to declare peace. I had a lot of wonders, so I can understand kind of why they wouldn't.

Your second example does seem a bit strange though. If he declared war and your only action was to liberate a city you shouldn't have incurred a penalty. You may get some minor penalties for the aggressive action in his territory but I'd expect the liberation bonus to make up for that and then some. What was the peace deal like?

The peace deal the Aztecs offered, were all their "Great Works" to sue for peace, which I gratefully accepted. I just think it's crazy to liberate a civ, and then to immediately have the liberated civ denounce you for being a warmonger.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

If you had some -60 warmonger penalty before Spain was wiped out, then simply liberating a city wouldn't be enough to counter your massive penalty. Or maybe you took some Spanish cities.

 

[Victoria]

@rkb please do jot take denouncements seriously and more importantly use them yourself

The denouncement mechanic is more about them making friends with other civs than any effect on you. Just what effect does a demouncememt have on you? Your borders are closed if they were open is all I know of apart from that you cannot denounce them back and you have a casus reason

The idea is to find civs that do not like who you want to attack. Denounce who you want to attack and this gives a positive modifier with them. Open borders with them , trade with them, have a delegation them make friends and ideally ally with them. Then your warmonger penalties are counteracted.

Denouncements are like delegations, you often have a short window to do them in. Ideally find a group of people that vaguely like each other and work on befriending and allying them. This will only work if you are not going to be a genocidal maniac and only works well in a domination victory if you pick off the capitals of your enemies slowly making them declare on you ideally.

 

[Jaybe]

The idea is to find civs that do not like who you want to attack. Denounce who you want to attack and this gives a positive modifier with them. Open borders with them , trade with them, have a delegation them make friends and ideally ally with them. Then your warmonger penalties are counteracted.

Please don't confuse me! With whom?

 

[Victoria]

Lol, I type too fast and do not think, apologies.
It gives a positive modifier with the civs that treat the denounced civ as an enemy.