Warmonger Tips - From a Non-Warmonger

[Gokudo01]

Well actually as of it is - it is definitely too much, though i think it would be okay to get 25-35 gold from pillaging instead of 5-10

I feel the same 5-10 is definitively too low

 

[Gazebo]

I think the same in Religios Pressure. Numbers that i currently see are insane

That doesn't make any sense, pillaging and religious pressure are not linked.

G

 

[Owlbebach]

That doesn't make any sense, pillaging and religious pressure are not linked.

G

Not saying that they are linked, but typical numbers for Religios Pressure in Holy City was always +30 (without any nearby converted cities) and +50 after Enhancing. Today i started a new game and i had +60 right after founding and here is what i have now:

As you may see i only have Mandirs that boost pressure and if you take a look at the minimap - there are quite a few cities to the left, while all cities to the right are Islamic. Typically pressure in a Holy CIty in such setup is +50-+80 and i have +161. Same in many other cities for all religions.

Not that it is gamebreaking cause it warks for everyone, but numbers seem to be 2-3 times higher than usual

 

[Noob Fanboy]

I can confirm it, in my current China game I'm trying to stop the runaway Japan, he was able to spread the religion in 35 cities before I was able to travel the ocean.and now he's running away with the help from spreading

 

[Stalker0]

All, can we please take the balance concerns back to the balance Forum. This is a strategy article in the strategy forum

 

[ridjack]

Something a little specific I don't see here: Survivalism on your recon units. Getting Survivalism III and the scout upgrade for your Pathfinder makes him a super unit; he is so much stronger than you expect. I frequently use my Scouts and Explorers to tank the front line of a defensive army while the "real" military gets into position, and/or to scoot around enemy territory pillaging tiles and making units chase him around. Get Medic II on them, and they can be damn near immortal and help support the military units.

 

[theMisterRud]

As a non-warmonger who is learning war, I have 3 tips: learn to melee attack during the entirety of a city assault (not just to deal a final blow after a slow siege, take Sweden or Denmark in order to get used to this facet of the combat), Learn to get Statue of Zeus, Learn to properly use Mounted Ranged Units (use Mongolia to learn this one)

For me, was a matter of "forcing" myself to learn facets of the combat system which I would not use

 

[Legen]

As a non-warmonger who is learning war, I have 3 tips: learn to melee attack during the entirety of a city assault (not just to deal a final blow after a slow siege, take Sweden or Denmark in order to get used to this facet of the combat), Learn to get Statue of Zeus, Learn to properly use Mounted Ranged Units (use Mongolia to learn this one)

For me, was a matter of "forcing" myself to learn facets of the combat system which I would not use

Melee units help a lot to siege units due to the city's HP recovery per turn being static (assuming no new defensive buildings). If it would take 10 cannon shots to take a city down, but the city recovers half of a shot per turn, you're in for a 20-turn siege. If the damage of your melee units are worth another cannon shot (usually more), you're in for a 7-turn siege instead.

More damage also means killing garrisons faster, as they redirect part of the city's damage unto themselves. If they are also healing (skipping turn, March promotion or hospital in the city), then they act as an additional healing. Having more damage on that city means eliminating that heal sooner and lowering the city's combat strength.

Japan is also a good pick to get used to it, as the Dojo promotion boosts the overall damage and survivability of your melee and mounted units, as well as getting rid of your reluctance of sieging a city with wounded units.

 

[ridjack]

As a non-warmonger who is learning war, I have 3 tips: learn to melee attack during the entirety of a city assault (not just to deal a final blow after a slow siege, take Sweden or Denmark in order to get used to this facet of the combat), Learn to get Statue of Zeus, Learn to properly use Mounted Ranged Units (use Mongolia to learn this one)

For me, was a matter of "forcing" myself to learn facets of the combat system which I would not use

Hmm. As someone is very much a warmonger, this is something I never do except with specific civs/units. I generally only attack with the bare minimum army I think I'll need to accomplish my tasks, so I'm not risking other units. Doesn't usually leave me much room to cycle melee out if they get beat up.

Then again, I also go against conventional wisdom/the more intelligent approach and attempt to blitz cities when I can, rather than kill the army like I should.

I'll have to give this a try.

 

[Gokudo01]

the more i've got experience with this mod the more i think shock is better on infantry after ancient/classical war.

With cavalry, I really love drill because You can get blitz and it's easier to fall back to a neutral or a friendly piece of land in order to heal up.
With infantry, it's a lot harder which mean that you are totally reliant on medic archer/skirmicher to sustain and sometimes it's not enough. I love more and more march and extra movement

 

[Stalker0]

I generally only attack with the bare minimum army I think I'll need to accomplish my tasks, so I'm not risking other units.

I'm curious what people's generally thoughts are. Early warfare when a non-capital gets its walls up. What do you generally find is the "bare minimum army" you need to take it.

 

[Bascule2000]

I'm curious what people's generally thoughts are. Early warfare when a non-capital gets its walls up. What do you generally find is the "bare minimum army" you need to take it.

It depends on the enemy army. If the city's empty with no units nearby, a catapult and spearman can probably do it. With an army around, I like 2 catapults and enough meatshields to protect them - maybe 2 spearmen, 2 horsemen and a medic II scout for healing.

But I advise against trying to use the bare minimum army - if you underestimate how much stuff you need you might lose some valuable units.

 

[ridjack]

the more i've got experience with this mod the more i think shock is better on infantry after ancient/classical war.

With cavalry, I really love drill because You can get blitz and it's easier to fall back to a neutral or a friendly piece of land in order to heal up.
With infantry, it's a lot harder which mean that you are totally reliant on medic archer/skirmicher to sustain and sometimes it's not enough. I love more and more march and extra movement

The trick is that they're both really good and you should diversify. I tend to keep the majority of my infantry with Shock so I can make my way to March because March is amazing, but I also keep a couple Drill guys for facetanking city shots and poking at the city when appropriate.

I'm curious what people's generally thoughts are. Early warfare when a non-capital gets its walls up. What do you generally find is the "bare minimum army" you need to take it.

It's less any kind of hard-and-fast rule and more of an ability to read the situation. Once walls are up, it's essentially impossible for most Civs to take a city without Mathematics; you need either lots of Skirmishers or a couple Catapults with the melee to defend them. Cities with walls that are settled defensively are usually a no-go unless you have a way around those defenses. If it's a Civ with relevant unique components in that era, it's also probably a no-go unless you have something that counteracts it.

Also listen to this guy:

It depends on the enemy army. If the city's empty with no units nearby, a catapult and spearman can probably do it. With an army around, I like 2 catapults and enough meatshields to protect them - maybe 2 spearmen, 2 horsemen and a medic II scout for healing.

But I advise against trying to use the bare minimum army - if you underestimate how much stuff you need you might lose some valuable units.

If you don't consider yourself good at warfare, don't try this. Utilizing overwhelming force will make your life much easier.

 

[Vortok]

Been trying to actively warmonger a bit more myself. Have had a few frustrating starts when attempting Authority, but RNG smiled on me this last version when I picked Zulus into an Ivory start. Drill War Elephants with faster promotions are kinda strong, lol. Those poor, poor Warriors.

Overall I often struggle to figure out when's a good time to attack. Wait too long and walls go up. Too soon and the AI's unit swarm can overwhelm. This can also be an issue when trying to initiate a war later in the game when the AI has a large standing army (prevent/slow a snowball or the like). Figuring out the early infrastructure while getting an army going can be an issue (+ paying for upkeep), though it's a great point that if you can keep the army alive then once it's up you can then refocus on infrastructure.

I read some comments in a thread awhile back about the promotions and I'm sold on Drill for mounted units. Blitz on a unit with enough movement to make use of it is fantastic. Stalwart also really helps keep the unit alive. March and + movement is pretty good, though. Especially if you can get enough exp to give the March unit Medic as well.

The ranged promotions are worth discussing, too. Barrage for Logistics is powerful both for the extra damage and for the increased exp income. 5% vs 10% ranged combat per rank worth thinking about. Accuracy leading to Range does allow for more stuff to be able to attack. The ranged mounted units are an interesting one. Logistics is still great, but the +movement promotion (believe it's limited to Accuracy) allows for a unit to move in 2, fire, and then retreat - terrain permitting. I was fortunate enough to have picked Austria in my inaugural VP game and a later game that I played out I used Morocco. Both are great for learning to use the ranged mounted units while still meshing well with a less than full on Authority warmonger playstyle.


Are there any particularly solid religion belief choices for actively warmongering? Orders seems like it could either be good for getting ahead of the exp curve, or a slight red herring if you can keep your units alive/make many before Orders are available.

 

[tu_79]

Overall I often struggle to figure out when's a good time to attack. Wait too long and walls go up. Too soon and the AI's unit swarm can overwhelm.

Don't waste gold and hammers on buildings. You'll have an overwhelming army in no time. Authority policies will keep your civilization going on in the early game as long as you manage to kill things. Once you are comfortable crushing your neighbours, start looking at your economy and build a few buildings: markets, barracks, specially.

 

[Stalker0]

Don't waste gold and hammers on buildings. You'll have an overwhelming army in no time. Authority policies will keep your civilization going on in the early game as long as you manage to kill things. Once you are comfortable crushing your neighbours, start looking at your economy and build a few buildings: markets, barracks, specially.

Agreed. The key is to build the army and then keep it alive. That way you can make the infrastructure switch when you need to.

By all means hit their units early so they don’t swarm you. You are getting culture and science, you gain xp, and they lose hammers.

I will say it can be frustrating attacking with an early army and then walls go up...but that’s where patience and persistence are key. Every unit you kill has impact. I find at a certain point their army starts to falter and your army becomes strongly experienced...and then you can crush.

 

[Paramecium]

Just a little tip from my side regarding early warmongering. Like always, it is depending on the circumstances. Do you have an very early UU (like ancient times), do your neighbours have one? If the answer is no for both, it is often sufficient just tech for spearmen first and attack the secondary cities of your neighbour. They will have a strength between 5 to 7/8, so 2 to 3 spearmen are enough, with Drill promotion, to attack the city and take it, regardless of your policy branch. It is important, to know how the AI teched. You can see that in the most cases if you look how big the tech costs in the tech tree is and if they built wonders from the upper part of the tech tree. If the AI itself has spearmen, it gets more difficult, so you need more units and at best archers to support your frontline.

The natural other option is to tech for horsemen, but that needs more effort, you need to have horses in the near neighbourhood, speaking from experience and map script, that isnt a given thing. In general as a warmonger you should very early tech for animal husbandary, mining and bronze working, even just to see where horses and iron are, to make your plans which location to settle/conquer.

Taking early cities is one part, taking their capital a different thing, you will need more units for it, a couple archers and at least three to five spearmen. And even just that, when the AI doesnt have an army or units which can match yours.