Warring City States

[Ctrlphreak]

Ok, not my best start ever in terms of land improvements, but I think we're in a ok position... the starting spot was sweet - a good clear 1 tile between our borders and those of the nearest civ

Here's a pic of the situation after my turns, so you can see the geo layout:

We've got cows, clams, game & I'm hoping for either horses or iron/copper in the hills. We'd better keep an eye on Frederik (thanks to his elephants...) Note I haven't hit enter to end my 30'th turn - just in case the next man up fancies MM'ing the city before their first turn...

Anyhow, here's what's happened so far (reads notes)...

(1) - Sent our scout to the hill 2s1e - after noting the complete lack of any decent resources worthy of moving the settler I settled on the starting spot - cows, game and clams all in easy reach... Set the city to building barracks & started on the path to meditation.

(2) - Met Caeser, Roosevelt, & Capac - made freindly noises... Sent the scout west to pick up a hut (47 gold), and then nw - at the time I thought we might be able to try for a second city, but...

(3) sent the scout W and met Napoleon, blocking any realistic chances of a second city being peacefully obtained...

(4) - (6) in order, we meet Ghengis, Frederik & Peter, and let the scout keep poking around...

(7) With nothing left to do, the scout returns to Tenochtitlan.

(8) - Zzzzzzz

(9) Quiet contemplation reveals we need to meditate more (we discover meditation & found buddhism - which I switch to for the moment) - in an attempt at getting a hydra I decide to head for polytheism next... Same turn, the scout returns home and fortifys in Tenoch...

(10) -> (17) Zzzz, the only thing of note being Hinduism founding on turn 17 by some foreign dude, irritating because....

(18) Discover Polytheism, one turn too late So much for a Aztec Hydra... I head for fishing next, so we have the option to hook up the clams...

(19) Barracks complete, head for monastery next (for the extra +2 culture/turn)

(20) Zzzz

(21) Our borders expand, and buddhism spreads to washington...

(22) Fishing is researched - Head for masonry (gets us a little closer to Catapults...)

(23), (24) Zzzz

(25) Micro manage Tenoch to speed up monastery - now built in 7...

(26) - (28) Zzzz

(29) Borders expand again, crushing Poor Capac still further... And giving us contact with Isabella... Also, Buddhism spreads to Athens, giving us contact with Alex - Keep smiling boys, we haven't got a army yet...

(30) Finish masonry - head for animal husbandry next (please horses!)

----------------

Well, there's good bits and bad bits so far...

On the plus side, we have a religion with two other civs... (and w/out any roads or missionaries ), We have large borders, goodish resources and a reasonable set of starting techs, Tenoch is up to size 4, when most of the competition is on 2-3...

On the other hand, we don't yet have a worker, work boat for those clams, or any army what so ever...

The plan as I see it at the moment (feel free to completely ignore this...):

We've got the monastery built in 2 turns, then re-MM Tenoch and head for a worker (and possibly a work boat) - at most, 14 turns... so we can start to hook up resources...

Science wise, We get animal husb. in 8 turns, then I'd suggest heading as quickly as we can for the metal working techs + catapults... Get up to iron working & we don't even need the resource to be able to pump Jaguars iirc...

Spread buddhism through our close neighbours, try and get another religion and spread that through the further civs (religious divide = good... if we're buffered by a bunch of friends...)

There is an alternative, however - look at the defenses of Washington... we get combat 1 by default, plus at least one other promotion - at the current rate, in 15 turns we could have five +35% (combat 1 + city raider 1 iirc gives that) warriors, and swiftly crush roosevelt... although it might be an idea to try and get frederik instead (i have issues with being attacked by elephants...)

Ctrlphreak - Just Played
Munterpipe - Up now
Percinho - Up Next
Maksim - Coming Soon

It's up to you which way you want to play it Munterpipe - Here's the save:

 

[Munterpipe]

thanks. Looks great so far. I'll play and post some time tomorrow. Not sure about what we should do next. Another thing to think about is that we could fit a settler in the clear spot to our east. Tempting to attack southwards though.

 

[Ctrlphreak]

Not too sure what spot to the east you mean? There's a (very small, and we'd be risking a culture flip if Freddy really went for it) space to the west, but the only thing I could think you mean to the east isn't clear - that's the Greek lands (pale blue borders don't show up too well....)

 

[Munterpipe]

ups, meant west

 

[Munterpipe]

by the marble, could help us get some wonders up

 

[Ctrlphreak]

To be quite honest, we'll have the marble in our borders soon anyway (yay having a religion!), and any city founded there would either hammer our capital or else have a very poor position tiles wise - just my personal opinion, but I *think* it'd be more worthwile to use the hammers to build more military, the food to grow Tenoch & then try and steamroll washington & berlin (hidden off to the west currently...) - that'd give us 3 cities with ok to good tile selection, and allow us to squeeze Ghengis until we're ready to attack (not to mention hopefully giving us the nice dies, and that damn elephant...)

 

[Munterpipe]

(1) Catch up with our glorious empire. We are number one in production and population, not so on the millitary side though.
Not much to do, so i anciously press enter.

(2) Our borders expand, and I spot an archer in both Rome and Washington. Five warriors would probably not take Washington if we had them now, at least not in 15 turns.
7 turns until animal husbandry. Let's go for some horses
(3) Monastery finished, start on a work boat, done in 5 turns.

(4)zzz
(5)zzz
(6)zzz
(7) not much going on.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106285&stc=1&d=1133715597
(8) Our workboat is done and immediatly went out crabbin' -Worker is done in 8 turns. A quecha appear at our border, but I think he is just watching over a worker, but we should start building our defence soon.
(9)Animal Husbandry shows that we have no horses, neither does any of our neighbors as far as I can see, start studying how to find minerals in the ground.
Mining is done in 4,
(10)zzzz
(11)zzzz
(12)zzzz
(13)mining is done. Went for bronceworking which will take 8 turns to finish. Us getting copper/iron or not will probably decide our strategy the next few rounds
(14)zzzzzz
(15)z

(16)the worker is done and i turn them into cowboys immediatly! soon our food and produvtion will be unrivaled... Yeehaaa! Warrior due in 3

(17)zz

(18)zz

(19)warrior done. Start producing another warrior but next up can change it if you want to

(20)the cows are tamed, worker heads for the deers. save is added.

Percinho. Next turn we'll see if we have copper or not. That will be interesting. Warrior will be done too. Good luck (if you need it)

[URL="http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?

 

[Percinho]

Just a quick 'got it' post. Hope to turn it around soon.

Cheers.

 

[Percinho]

Ok, time to roll.

[1] Nowt much at all.

[2] Suddenly everything happens! We can now work bronze, and we have some copper to allow us to do it! As a result I set the worker to link it up to the city. I set us to research iron working. Decide to take a chance on Stonehenge as well. That’ll give us a huge culture boost which’ll keep our borders safe.

[3] – [4] Orleans has been founded next to the marble to the west. This, of course, is not ideal. I think we’ll have to take that city one way or another, but not until we have some sort of army!

[5] Realise we don’t have the wheel so I can’t build a road, so I swap to that and in the meantime mine the copper.

[6] - [10] Finish The Wheel and move back to Iron Working. Start linking the copper to Tenoch.

[11] – [13] Finish Stonehenge! We’re now pumping out 20 culture per turn, which means we’re starting to put pressure on the marble, and even on Orleans, so it Looks like we may avoid the military alternative for the moment. I decide that an axeman will be ideal, and by the time we finish it we should be ready for jaguars!

[14] – [19] Not a lot going on during these turns, and then all of a sudden the marble square ‘flips’ to us. Orleans is just 3% French, and decreasing. We’re over 500 on culture, but that probably means people will start to get a bit narky with us. I have built a jaguar as well so we’re bang on our way to having a decent military. Iron working is also finished, so I head for agriculture to finish off farming tech.

This seems like an appropriate point to stop as I’m sure I may have missed a turn out somewhere! To summarise, we have iron working and are now capable of putting together an army worthy of the name. It’s looking like we’ll be able to flip Orleans, but I don’t fancy our chances of attacking Washington before catapults.

It’s shaping up to be a cracking game, and it’s all I can do not to continue playing! Maksim, it now falls to you to take us forward. All the best and God speed to you!

 

[Munterpipe]

Great game so far. We should keep up our defences from now on. It is Napoleon, after all who is at our west, so we should expect some action sooner or later. Maybe the French and the Mongolians will fight, leaving it up to us to pick up the spoils. They're both very aggressive, and cramped up against a corner.

 

[Vol]

lurker's comment: I was playing my own version of this Duel Map, 18 Civs idea, and I discovered the strangest thing!

You can culture flip a capital! Even if it is their only city. This eliminates that civilization!

I didn't even think this was possible, but I've seen it with my own eyes now!

 

[Vol]

lurker's comment: Oh, and it comes with the Palace intact, which is really bizarre to have a three city civilization with two Palaces.

 

[Percinho]

lurker's comment: I was playing my own version of this Duel Map, 18 Civs idea, and I discovered the strangest thing!

You can culture flip a capital! Even if it is their only city. This eliminates that civilization!

I didn't even think this was possible, but I've seen it with my own eyes now!

Interesting! I was wondering if you could flip a civ out of existance. I have a growing feeling that this game will take a military turn sooner rather than later though...

 

[Merzbow]

*LURKER NOTE*

Ok folks I've cracked this map wide open. Brain-dead easy way to win this: Focus on CULTURE until about 1500 AD. Found as many religions as possible, build all religious buildings, get some great artists, etc. By then ALL your neighbors (8 or so) will be compressed and weak, although few will have flipped. Roll over them with cannons and grenadiers; they will have at MOST riflemen. Simple win from there on. This was on Prince also. This is INFINITELY easier then trying to go the early-game domination route. Culture is worth more than 100 ICBMs on a map like this.

Course you guys will play it how you want... the culture push is kind of cheesy. if you've got the skills the best way is still of course to take 5 or so cities early game, then you can just snowball to domination. I'm still not good enough to reliably pull that off though.

 

[Maksim]

Got it. Apologies for not noticing this earlier.

 

[Maksim]

Right, so far, so good. We have established Buddhism, built a pile of rocks that means we can expect a great prophet in a millennium or two, connected copper. Oh, look here! The poor citizens of Orleans are practically demanding to join our peace-loving ranks! Now, what could we do about that?

1360 BC (turn zero) and 1320 (turn one) pass uneventfully. Patience is a virtue.

1280 BC – Cyrus shows up. He’s Jewish so not too friendly but still wants to shake hands and be buddies. Good for both of us, I say!

1240 BC – Learnt agriculture. Going for priesthood next – if we grab Oracle, life would be good. Even if not, we can still use the temples.

1200 BC – Axemen are being built in capital, as that’s what Napoleon has. Without horses everyone defaults to these guys, and we are the same.

1100 BC and 1020 BC – Time passes.

1080 – Priesthood is learnt, one more axeman is built. Oracle in 9 turns? Sign me up, please, and I’ll study Monotheism meanwhile so I can pick up both this and Monarchy (alternative would be Writing and Alphabet/Mathematics). But what about the poor citizens of Orleans? Oh, how could we leave them suffering under Napoleon’s heel when our support in this town is on the level generally reserved for petty third-world dictators?

So, in a sneaky move, a band of three axemen and one jaguar stride out towards Orleans, to which we have previously built a road. Fortuitously enough, the city is only defended by one spearman and one archer (two of Napoleon's axemen went off into the forest).

1040 – Declare war. Jaguar attacks an archer, wins flawlessly. Axeman makes short work of the spearman, and Orleans is ours! Move another axe into the city for defense, and move the last axe into the forest.

1000 – The enemy is coming. Axemen and archers, oh my! But now it’s up to them to attack while we prepare to defend.

975 – Inbetween turns, exchanged one axeman for one of theirs, and killed another one. Napoleon’s archer stepped onto the marble tile, and is punished for this. I’m not liking the situation – how may reserves does he have? Dial up our brothers in faith, and Roosevelt agrees to help us in the war against Napoleon for free. I bless him, loveable schmuck that he is.

950, 925, 900 BC – Keeping most of our forces in the city, I send out an axeman to scout and pillage. Roosevelt takes care of actual fighting; dispatching at least two units I have seen. Napoleon obviously switched his attention to Roosevelt, which suits me just fine.

Bad news! The Oracle is built two turns before it was due in for us. If I had cut a forest, we would have got it.

Oh well, at least we have enough money to make 100% science last a bit.

875 BC – Monotheism comes in. We organize our religion. Capital sets to work on a Buddhist missionary.

850, 825, 800 BC – Buddhist Missionary finished, spreads religion in Orleans. Scouting pillaging axeman destroys a spearman on top of a copper mine but is killed in turn by the enemy.

775 BC – Napoleon, having had his satisfaction, agrees to a peace treaty. Paris is 40% defense, and I have better things to do then fight. We are peace lovers, after all.

750 BC – Writing comes in, start on Sailing so we can trade along coast. Orleans finishes Barracks, starts Buddhist Monastery for +2 culture.

725 BC – Buddhism spreads in Paris.

General comments:

Work boat is due in two turns in capital. Send it to the fish NW of Orleans, so it can release the deer tile back to the capital and still keep growing. Capital can take the deer, and either grow by one more person, or set a citizen to be a priest specialist, and get us our holy building sooner.

We might want to sign Open Borders with everyone, or just people far away. Use your discretion. I’ve signed these treaties with both Cyrus and Victoria, as they offered it themselves.

Roosevelt is still fighting Napoleon. He’s not angry at us for declaring peace but might want to drag us back into the war.

Genghis Khan and Peter the Great are slightly annoyed at us declaring on Napoleon.

There are stacks of “two axemen + settler” wandering the land.

Enjoy!

 

[Ctrlphreak]

Got it... will play in a sec

 

[Liquidated]

Lurker's note

Fun game guys, very interesting premise. domination doesn;t seem to be the esiest route but where's the fun in not trying.

Keep up the good work!

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[Ctrlphreak]

And we're off...

(0) The lazy worker lounging around outside orleans is ordered over to Tenoch, prior to the first turn so that...

(1) Worker builds a road on the cows... Finally, we can solve our unemployment problem - build roads

(2) Tenoch completes the workboat, which is dispatched as recommended in the direction of the icy north... Concerned about illiteracy, Tenoch's council plead with the ruler for a library (and their request is granted...)
In world news, Capac appears to have become enamoured of a strange bunch of fellows in his capital calling themselves confusionists or something... (Capac founds & adopts confuse-ism...)

(3) Mansa requests Open Boarders - I'm gonna ok any requests for ob's that come our way, as having good relations with neighbours should hopefully help prevent our getting backstabbed too much in future wars (at least until we finish napoleon off at any rate )
Sailing is discovered - worried about our enemies, we try next to research the art of shooting pointy sticks at people (archery).
Also, as Tenoch has waaay more health than it needs, I opt to mine the hills 2s1w for an extra hammer...

(4) Zzzzz

(5) The workboat arrives at the northern fisheries - Tenoch and Orleans switch tiles...

(6) Archery is discovered - next up, pottery!

(7) Open Boarders with Ghengis & Roosevelt - send the scouts out again to poke around down south...

(8) I don't know what Napoleon is smoking, but remind me to mass-farm it when we take over Paris - he actually wants our help in the war against America - the one that *we* started with him years ago! Unsurprisingly, I tell him where to get off...
Run into Qui Shi Huang, and sign OB's with Caeser.
Potter is researched - next, Alphabet so we can nab some other techs hopefully...
Tenoch completes it's library - I opt for a lighthouse next so we can start to raise our commerce by working some more water tiles w/out starving...
Our scouts run into Saladin to the far SW...

(9) OB's with Alex.
Orleans completes Library - next up, a lighthouse, as this city *needs* extra food to grow
Tenoch recieves the hammers for chopping the forest on the hill where I built the mine.

(10) OB with Qui
Tenoch completes it's lighthouse thanks to the chop & switches to the Great Lighthouse.

(11) OB with Saladin
Worker builds a cottage north of Tenoch

(12) Zzzz

(13) OB with Peter
Scout returns home - Capac won't open his boarders, and we cant scout any further east w/out a boat otherwise...

(14) Greater lighthouse is built elsewhere (blast! It was only a 8 turn build too ). Tenoch switches to pumping Jaguars for a bit...

(15) We are #1 in culture (duh!)
Our worker begins building random roads for a bit to keep busy...
One pleb in Tenoch recieves holy orders and starts preaching (so we get the GP in 4 turns - not that I want to build the holy building myself or anything... )

(16) Tenoch produces it's first Jag, and begins on the next...

(17) Orleans completes it's lighthouse and switches to building a Library...

(18) Yet another Jag in Tenoch...

(19) Buddhism Spreads to Berlin
Our Great Profit (Prophet?) Arrives - and promply solves our money problems by building the Mahabodhi (-3 gp to + 4 gp in one move )

(20) Such a nice turn to end on
Alphabet is complete, switch to maths
Tenoch completes a Jag, begins building another one
Worker builds yet more Roads...
Trade crab for clam with Saladin (help boost relations, Saladin's one of those civs that I actually *hate* the UU for - him, Caeser & Cyrius have all had UU flavoured shocks for me in past single player games, so I tend to try and keep them sweet now if possible...)
Now we've got the first GP, I switch the priest back to being a pleb...

-----------------

Thoughts:

We've now got three unpromoted Jags & an unpromoted axeman in Tenoch - I'd suggest pumping that up to 8-10 jags by the time we hit construction, we should then be able to steamroll napoleon/ghengis/Capac (I've gone off mullering roozy for the time being since he *was* nice to us... Capac however has a different religion and therefore must die... preferably before it spreads to rome if at all possible...)

Note that I haven't traded tech - noone has anything worth trading, and they *all* want alphabet as the only thing we've got they think is worth having. Probably worth keeping an eye on the tech-trade screen for the next 8 turns or so (up til us getting maths that is), just in case someone gets something nice....

Try and spare a turn or two to chuck out a few buddhist missionaries and convert the heathens some more (income is a *good* thing - plus it saves us religion spreading to our own cities to keep the economy going later on in the game...)

Anyhow, here's the files:

 

[Maksim]

Very nice set of turns. I'm laughing at poor Napoleon.

Are Jaguars a good idea? I've been seeing a lot of axemen during my turn, and Jags will fall before them easily.

Should we consider setting up a scientist in the capital? We might still get a Prophet due to Stonehenge but an early Academy would be very nice.

Shame about missing the Lighthouse as well. Maybe we should consider going for Literature and Great Library? The two scientists will be a nice boost in terms of both research and Great People.