Was this really necessary?

[Sabretou]

In no way does the text you are referring to even come close to saying this. I think you are very much misinterpreting the tongue-in-cheek humor.

The civilopedia has always has some character in its writing style, and Civ V is no exception.

I really don't remember the older Civilopedia ahving any "character" in its writing style. The blurbs I've read really sound like they were written to be digested by 1st-graders.

 

[evrett37]

Funny, I was just looking at the forums on the civ5 website. There's a thread with almost the exact same title as this one. Instead of complaining about how the site took a supposed jab at America, that thread is complaining about the fact that America's factoid makes us look important, while all the other factoids are kinda dumb pieces of trivia. "ooooh, big important Americans went to the moon, but all they say about China is ice cream??!" (something like that, I'm paraphrasing).

2k Heavily moderates that "forum" which is not really a forum but a propaganda venue. Only stuff that meets certain marketing criteria gets posted.

 

[Aeon221]

I also am not seeing what's so wrong with adding some light touches to the game like the "fun facts." Some people act like the game is serious business and nothing light or humorous has ever been done before.

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."
Al Gore's picture representing the internet.
Dan Quayle (that one's getting a bit dated, by the way. I vote they replace it with sarah palin >.>).

I'm fine if they want to tell me about Miss Universe contest winner as long as they still have the more detailed facts, which they will.

You shut the hell up about Dan Quayle. We will mock him on the beaches, we will mock him on the land, we will mock him to our dying breaths.

He is the alpha and omega of the absolute unknown overnighting into an idiot. And even almost two decades later, his idiocy is still hilarious.

But if he had had tits, he'd probably have won the election for H Dub with that comment

Moderator Action: Don't yell or use inappropriate language on the forums

 

[Malkaviel]

Fun Facts


Egypt: Jewish people were never slaves in Egypt

This is a touchy subject and difficult to substantiate on either side.

We know for a fact a people who spoke a semitic dialect invaded lower Egypt over a period of time and eventually gained prominence, ruling from Avaris and controlling the Nile delta (re:Hyksos). Granted, there is no evidence, archaeological or otherwise, to say these people were monotheistic. Likely they were not at that time.

These invaders weren't fully driven out until Egypt's 18th dynasty, popular for Hatshepsut, Tutankhamun, and interestingly enough Akhenaten, who attempted to push monotheism, which of course failed. The Hyksos were pursued to Canaan where they were subsequently routed and some accounts specifically note "persons taken as spoils".

Mainly, modern scholars agree, from nomenclature and names/titles of kings, Hyksos originated from the Levant.

So, looking back at Egyptian records with an overlay of Old Testament documentation of oral tradition, it's not a stretch by any means to conclude these were the people who would become Israel/Judea. The sad part is there is little to no concrete archaeological evidence to support the Exodus story itself. However we can clearly see what happened before it, and after in the power vacuum created in the Levant after Ramesses II conflicted with the Hittites.

 

[Malkaviel]

Germany: Hitler got his ideas on how to treat Jews from Martin Luther's Magnum Opus On the Jews and Their Lies

Greece: Greece spent most of its years as a bunch of feuding city states

On Germany, I'm personally unappreciative of your correlation between Martin Luther and Hitler. I understand how you come to this conclusion, but you missed a few hundred years of steps in between.

I find your slant against judeo-christianity to be caustic.

On Greece your statement is redundant. Almost every culture was a "bunch of feuding city states" in recurring periods. Mesopotamia especially comes to mind.

 

[dinofs]

It's not in the best taste, perhaps, but it's not extremely offensive (or inaccurate) either

 

[PeterWimsey]

I find your slant against judeo-christianity to be caustic.

I don't think it's a slant against judeo-christianity. And it's not like Christians have an exemplary history when it comes to anti-semitism. So I wouldn't go there.

 

[Malkaviel]

It's not in the best taste, perhaps, but it's not extremely offensive or inaccurate either.

Luther was not well in the period of his life he wrote "On the Jews and Their Lies". Altho this doesn't forgive his illicit hate speech, I hope you understand it came from a human under extreme physical, mental and emotional duress.

The Nazi party was not Lutheran. No where else do they specifically espouse writings of Luther. Someone conveniently picked up any old book on anti-semitism and it happened to be the unfortunate ramblings of a sick old man, even more unfortunately who had been a brave, talented visionary in his earlier days.

They didn't "get their ideas" from Luther. They had their sick ideas and used hundreds-years-old literature to support their twisted itinerary, out of context. It might be more convincing if Nazis killed Jews because they shared Luther's complaint of Jewish conspiracy against Jesus, but they didn't. The viewpoints were far and wide separated in concept.

 

[Malkaviel]

I don't think it's a slant against judeo-christianity. And it's not like Christians have an exemplary history when it comes to anti-semitism. So I wouldn't go there.

He did. On one occasion he categorically railed judeochristian contention from OT without supporting facts, on the other he blanketly associated nazi cruelty with religious contention.

 

[EmpireOfCats]

Only referencing the military might as a base for "superpower" doesn't bode well for the balance of the game -- you could mention, for example, that the USA is responsible for about 25 percent of the world's GDP or is the world leader in science. I'm getting more and more worried that Civ V will be less of a Civilization game and more of a war simulator.

As for Americans being ignorant of geography: That is common prejudice among Europeans, usually easy taken care of by asking them to name all 50 states and their capitals (most Germans don't even know how many states there are in the U.S.). European countries are small (with the obvious exception of Russia), so they have less to learn. Also, there is a certain European obsession with geography because of their imperialist past -- lists of "our" and "their" colonies for the children to memorize for the next war.

Just ignore it -- there is a certain type of European that sees all Americans as fat and stupid, and that's not going to change during our lifetime.

 

[OMG!!!]

They changed the description today: The Ottoman Empire was born in Anatolia (in modern Turkey) at the start of the 13th century. It expanded into three continents and thrived for some six centuries.

The other text was very yanko-centric in fact, a statement about USA in the Ottoman description...

 

[EmpireOfCats]

Of course the entry on Germany is the one that wins the prize for politically correctness. Take a look at this line:

During its brief existence Germany has had a profound effect on human history.

Certainly true (though the Germans are going to bristle at the "short history"), but it does make you wonder like, uh, why? I see Firaxis' problem, but still.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

Yanko-centric I love it!!! I'll have to use that more often... When talking about those damn Yankees from the North.

 

[Yared]

During its brief existence Germany has had a profound effect on human history.



Yep, being involved in two world wars sure does that.

 

[OMG!!!]

But this is the best: Siam: Pornthip "Bui" Nakhirunkanok became the second Thai to win the Miss Universe title after Apasra Hongsakula in 1965. The year was 1988.

 

[dinofs]

Luther was not well in the period of his life he wrote "On the Jews and Their Lies". Altho this doesn't forgive his illicit hate speech, I hope you understand it came from a human under extreme physical, mental and emotional duress.

The Nazi party was not Lutheran. No where else do they specifically espouse writings of Luther. Someone conveniently picked up any old book on anti-semitism and it happened to be the unfortunate ramblings of a sick old man, even more unfortunately who had been a brave, talented visionary in his earlier days.

They didn't "get their ideas" from Luther. They had their sick ideas and used hundreds-years-old literature to support their twisted itinerary, out of context. It might be more convincing if Nazis killed Jews because they shared Luther's complaint of Jewish conspiracy against Jesus, but they didn't. The viewpoints were far and wide separated in concept.

I was specifically talking about the quote from the Ottoman article. I did NOT mean to say anything about the Martin Luther/Hitler debate. Sorry for not making that clear.

 

[EmpireOfCats]

Yep, being involved in two world wars sure does that.

Well, "involved" might not be the most exact word here ...

On the other hand, they didn't really pull any punches with the Aztecs:

Today the Aztecs are best remembered for the bloodiness of their religious practices (...)​

Given that they want to keep a youth-friendly rating, you can't really expect more here. Wouldn't you have liked to listen to the internal discussions at Firaxis about the German entry?

(Note, to whom it may concern: There is a typo in the China entry, where a dash was used instead of a colon for the Special Building.)

 

[civ_king]

I'd recommend you read up on WW2 before spewing out falsehoods. Don't make a fool of yourself.

until, in God's good time, the new world, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

I'm going to presume they are talking about the US, what you think Canada is going to save them?

Just read "On the Jews and Their Lies"... it bears remarkable similarity to what hey Nazis did, not only that but most of Germany was Lutheran...

 

[Yared]

I'm pretty sure anti-Semitism was prevalent in the Catholic parts as well.

 

[aziantuntija]

Only referencing the military might as a base for "superpower" doesn't bode well for the balance of the game -- you could mention, for example, that the USA is responsible for about 25 percent of the world's GDP or is the world leader in science. I'm getting more and more worried that Civ V will be less of a Civilization game and more of a war simulator.

As for Americans being ignorant of geography: That is common prejudice among Europeans, usually easy taken care of by asking them to name all 50 states and their capitals (most Germans don't even know how many states there are in the U.S.)

Well its not about that really, i think that most Americans dont even know how many countries there are in Europe either, plus i think that many Europeans know that for instance Alabama is a state in United States but how many Americans know is Norway in Europe?