Washington... its called the tutorials, you should take them.

[Jerman]

When I see America in the game, they are usually a middling civ if they survive the early warmongers.

True, They can be a problem.

Eh? Hiawatha. If he's there in the game alot of people are going to be conquered.

He was in my last game and never took a city. He did have grand river taken by russia. Plus he's useless on a great plain map, but powerful on a amazon so it really depends on the map.

Seriously, who's the moron who decided that AI Pacal should grow TALL? The Maya are the hands-down best ICS civ in the game, yet they're programmed to go tall and cultural...

Agreed, But I usually have a small empire unless I'm going for domination. So if I'm not I have like 5 cities. I'm playing Pacal on this map (the one with Hiawatha taking out the U.S.) BTW.

He tends to take Patronage, especially the policy that makes other civs' influence drop everywhere. That plus Hellenic League means he doesn't even need to try to grab city-states and if there's competitors, well, that's what wars are for...

the chart is pretty wonky and translates things ingame hilariously though. For example, Hiawatha is supposed to be one of the more "peaceful" leaders out there - yet every game he is aggressive as hell, covets your lands and will declare war if you are neighbors/have his wonders etc.

A.I. is confusing. But I know one thing. If Alex has gold its city state time.

Attila is an early warmonger and Hiawatha is a powerhouse. A lot of civs would fair badly starting next to those two civs.

Yeah, Agreed but look at what I said about Hiawatha earlier

Washington is actually pretty dangerous. He expands quickly, plays somewhat conservatively, and likes to go for science victory.

Getting destroyed by Hiawatha/Attila doesn't really say much about him, consider those two AIs are also pretty dangerous.

If you are talking about bad, I feel that Haile Selassie, Pacal, Gangdhi, and Theodora are the least dangerous AIs because they tend to grow tall and shoot for cultural victory.

Spoiler :

Well, TBH I am not 100% sure about Haile Selassie. Sometimes he would go for Order on one city only. Maybe he was trying to win by science? I have actually never seen him going so far as to be able to clearly tell what kind of victory he is shooting for.

Selassie Is a pain to conquer in the Industrial Age. Everyone should agree on that with the special Riflemen and that bonus.

 

[sufficiency]

Speaking of Theodora, this is the biggest and most aggressive Theodora I've ever witnessed. She was actually leading in score for pretty much the entire game, and destroyed 3 other civs herself! (Pangaea/Deity)

Too bad I baited her into a nuclear war with Catherine ^_^

And yes, that's Hiawatha not running away (being a neighbour of Catherine played a role I bet).

 

[smallfish]

sounds like he didn't have a lot of forests to begin with

 

[Jerman]

Speaking of Theodora, this is the biggest and most aggressive Theodora I've ever witnessed. She was actually leading in score for pretty much the entire game, and destroyed 3 other civs herself! (Pangaea/Deity)

Too bad I baited her into a nuclear war with Catherine ^_^

And yes, that's Hiawatha not running away (being a neighbour of Catherine played a role I bet).

I never get tech levels of high level players. Robotics in 1790! What difficulty do you play on anyway. Sadly I think the highest I can beat is prince. Anyways can you give me some tips on teching up.
Edit: Does all you cities being on research have anything to do with it.

 

[Biologist]

From what I've seen you can't count anyone out.

Probably true. I've never seen India become a world power (all jokes about Nuclear Gandhi aside) though. Gandhi doesn't necessarily get wiped out, but he remains puny and unimportant throughout the game. I have seen him declare wars and take territory, but he never becomes a major player on his own. I did "help" him once by gifting him a ton of territory I conquered from his neighbors, and that seemed to inspire him to wipe out a neighboring civ. Had I not gifted him 6-7 cities, though, I think he would have just turtled at 3 as usual.

 

[sufficiency]

I never get tech levels of high level players. Robotics in 1790! What difficulty do you play on anyway. Sadly I think the highest I can beat is prince. Anyways can you give me some tips on teching up.
Edit: Does all you cities being on research have anything to do with it.

This was Pangaea/Deity on standard speed.

As far as the tech goes, well, actually, as you can see from the screenshot, I was going to have a new policy in 1 turn - and it would go toward Rationalism finisher. It would allow me to get Robotics and Particle Physics for free, which was the required tech for my last piece of the spaceship. I am pretty sure I won via science 4-5 turns later.

The only reason I was doing the hammer -> science conversion is because I had to match up my science with my SP - I wanted to make sure I got all the requirements for Robotics so my Rationalism finisher would bring me to Particle Physics. I actually overshot it a little bit into Robotics (for reasons I do not remember), but at that point it didn't matter that much.

What I did not do that game was the hammer overflow trick. Unfortunately I ran out of cheap buildings to build (I built wall already because I wanted the culture bonus from Castle).

 

[Jerman]

This was Pangaea/Deity on standard speed.

As far as the tech goes, well, actually, as you can see from the screenshot, I was going to have a new policy in 1 turn - and it would go toward Rationalism finisher. It would allow me to get Robotics and Particle Physics for free, which was the required tech for my last piece of the spaceship. I am pretty sure I won via science 4-5 turns later.

The only reason I was doing the hammer -> science conversion is because I had to match up my science with my SP - I wanted to make sure I got all the requirements for Robotics so my Rationalism finisher would bring me to Particle Physics. I actually overshot it a little bit into Robotics (for reasons I do not remember), but at that point it didn't matter that much.

What I did not do that game was the hammer overflow trick. Unfortunately I ran out of cheap buildings to build (I built wall already because I wanted the culture bonus from Castle).

Yeah I think I can't touch Deity for a good long while. I might play like Emperor after another prince game but not Deity for a long tome.

 

[ahawk]

I never get tech levels of high level players. Robotics in 1790! What difficulty do you play on anyway. Sadly I think the highest I can beat is prince. Anyways can you give me some tips on teching up.
Edit: Does all you cities being on research have anything to do with it.

With the right build order, some luck with wonders, bulbing techs with GSs, RAs galore, and the Rationalism closer, it's not as tough as you'd think to get ridiculously far ahead of where techs were discovered in real life.

 

[sufficiency]

With the right build order, some luck with wonders, bulbing techs with GSs, RAs galore, and the Rationalism closer, it's not as tough as you'd think to get ridiculously far ahead of where techs were discovered in real life.

Yeah what I did was not impressive by any means, lol.

That game actually sucked a lot. I beelined to Dynamite hoping to destroy Theodora, but she actually had like 18 GW bombers when I finally got ready. Then I figured that I will get Flight and get Triplanes, only to realize that I GOT NO OIL WHATSOEVER.

 

[ahawk]

Then I figured that I will get Flight and get Triplanes, only to realize that I GOT NO OIL WHATSOEVER.

That's the absolute worst feeling in the game for me, when that happens. After all, if you rush to get Flight and Triplanes, you probably left at least a few techs on the bottom of the tech tree untouched; having to back-track through those techs to get all the way back up to anti-aircraft guns, all because you didn't get any oil, is a nightmare when the AI already has a sizable fleet of GWBombers.

 

[aluelkdf]

From my experience, it's pretty much hit or miss for America. They are either wiped out or severely weakened in the early game. And they may linger around into late game, but as a very weak almost irrelevant civ.

Either that, or America becomes extremely powerful, and is a serious force to reckon with.

Either way, when I see America in the very early game, I know I can never trust them in the long run. They have a very strong habit of backstabbing. And I always see them as a potential threat. The only time I trust America and no longer see them as a threat is after they are severely weakened (if that happens).

 

[sufficiency]

That's the absolute worst feeling in the game for me, when that happens. After all, if you rush to get Flight and Triplanes, you probably left at least a few techs on the bottom of the tech tree untouched; having to back-track through those techs to get all the way back up to anti-aircraft guns, all because you didn't get any oil, is a nightmare when the AI already has a sizable fleet of GWBombers.

Well it's kind of Hiawatha's fault. As you can see from the screenshot, he has a city east of me - and there are 3 Oil tiles there (two on deserts and one on coast.

 

[Aaron90495]

Yup, being Oil-less is incredibly frustrating. I figure the devs could fix that problem with a building a la the Recycling Center - problem is, I'm 99.99% sure no such thing exists. Right?

 

[Biologist]

Yup, being Oil-less is incredibly frustrating. I figure the devs could fix that problem with a building a la the Recycling Center - problem is, I'm 99.99% sure no such thing exists. Right?

They could provide an alternative equivalent resource via biofuel plants, hydrogen fuel cell factories, etc. The main problem would be that in order to be relatively realistic, such technology would be well down the tech tree from Biology, so you'd still get oil-based units much later.

 

[Jerman]

They could provide an alternative equivalent resource via biofuel plants, hydrogen fuel cell factories, etc. The main problem would be that in order to be relatively realistic, such technology would be well down the tech tree from Biology, so you'd still get oil-based units much later.

Says the biologist .

Anyways what other civs do you think might have a hard start and a strong late game.
Or a strong start or a horrible late game.

Some suggestions to talk about

Alex
Cathy
Monty

 

[Biologist]

Says the biologist.

Irony abounds.

Anyways what other civs do you think might have a hard start and a strong late game.
Or a strong start or a horrible late game.

Some suggestions to talk about

Alex
Cathy
Monty

Aztecs definitely tend to start strong, but they fade faster than anyone, even the Huns, in my experience. The English seem to be a civ that falls early often, but they expand rapidly and become powerful if left alone or allowed to survive the Medieval Era.

 

[ahawk]

AI England often fails. Even on water maps. It's an astounding thing, too, because human players can do incredible things with Longbows, and can make England succeed with just that by itself. Let alone if the map is Tiny Islands or whatever.

At least that's my experience. I think the big problem is that the AI isn't too smart about using ranged units that can attack from more than 2 tiles aways. That, and they don't know how to switch from building peacefully to rushing a UU as soon as the UU becomes viable. Imagine if France actually understood the power the Musketeer has and started sending it in large numbers with trebuchets, rather than sending a couple of them with pikes, longswords, and other stuff that's almost not even necessary at that point. Same thing with Longbows. AI's prioritize production of the UU somewhat (Babylon always has a lot of gatlings by the time I meet them, same as China, which both have earlier ranged UU's that they tend to upgrade and keep), but not nearly enough in most cases.

 

[aluelkdf]

If I don't have oil then I try to capture some ASAP. I use the units I do have and I attack a city state. If no city states have oil (or if they are in a location that makes it nearly impossible to invade), then I attack a nearby civ that has oil near my border. At this point, not having oil isn't a huge disadvantage. But if you delay and wait a while, then go to war, then not having oil is a huge disadvantage.

If worst comes to worst, and for whatever reason I can't secure my own oil, then I pay to ally a city state that does, or I trade with another civ to get oil. But I prefer securing my own oil because the supply is more reliable.

I really don't care about diplomatic penalties in situations like this. I do whatever I need to do to get oil.

 

[sufficiency]

AI England often fails. Even on water maps. It's an astounding thing, too, because human players can do incredible things with Longbows, and can make England succeed with just that by itself. Let alone if the map is Tiny Islands or whatever.

At least that's my experience. I think the big problem is that the AI isn't too smart about using ranged units that can attack from more than 2 tiles aways. That, and they don't know how to switch from building peacefully to rushing a UU as soon as the UU becomes viable. Imagine if France actually understood the power the Musketeer has and started sending it in large numbers with trebuchets, rather than sending a couple of them with pikes, longswords, and other stuff that's almost not even necessary at that point. Same thing with Longbows. AI's prioritize production of the UU somewhat (Babylon always has a lot of gatlings by the time I meet them, same as China, which both have earlier ranged UU's that they tend to upgrade and keep), but not nearly enough in most cases.

Because Lizzy doesn't really expand. She also often go for diplomatic victory (or even culture) off a tall empire.

If I don't have oil then I try to capture some ASAP. I use the units I do have and I attack a city state. If no city states have oil (or if they are in a location that makes it nearly impossible to invade), then I attack a nearby civ that has oil near my border. At this point, not having oil isn't a huge disadvantage. But if you delay and wait a while, then go to war, then not having oil is a huge disadvantage.

If worst comes to worst, and for whatever reason I can't secure my own oil, then I pay to ally a city state that does, or I trade with another civ to get oil. But I prefer securing my own oil because the supply is more reliable.

I really don't care about diplomatic penalties in situations like this. I do whatever I need to do to get oil.

Perhaps. But the only way for me to get oil (at the time) was to attack Hiawatha, which I did not want to do.

 

[headcase]

Washington is one of those civs that commonly throws a bunch of warriors at the nearest civ and lives and dies from the result of that. Against an overly peaceful AI civ, he sometimes fares well and becomes a runaway.