We are getting close to a deal...

[Gainy]

I've encountered a few cases like this before, but this must be the worst...

The first pic is self explanatory. Nothing(much) unusual Here ye are:-

So I thought, Close to a deal? Well i'll just offer a wee bit more...
I kept putting the amount up and up until I got to this figure, and they were still close to a deal

There was me thinking 160gp would be enough to seal the deal

I am aware that there are about 5 different states
Ie,
They will never accept such a deal
They will be insulted by the deal
I doubt they will accept this proposal
We're getting close to a deal
They will accept

My question is, what factors affect how much these vary by? Has anyone done a comprehensive test? Will anyone do a comprehensive test?

 

[budweiser]

I can start a list:

1.) Gracious. polite, cautious, etc...
2.) How many other people have the tech.
4.) The base value of the tech.
5.) Favored/unfavored gov't.
6.) Your culture compared to theirs.
7.) Do they respect your army.
8.) Are they afraid of your army.

 

[Gainy]

I think you've misunderstood my question. I'm asking - what is it that affects the variation, of the size, of the difference between each of my status' that I mentioned... If that makes any sense to you (I really should word it better)

Ie, at the very beginning of teh game, if you were getting close to a deal, then you would only have to add ~10 gold at the most...

 

[Padma]

I agree, Gainy bo. If we are "close to a deal", then we should be close to a deal!

I'd like to know how this works, myself.

 

[Stapel]

Me too!

It is very annoying to spend time on the best deal.

A button that automatically jumps to the best deal would be nice. This self finding out stuff is good for nothing I think.

 

[budweiser]

Just beware there is a penalty associated with always demanding the 'best deal'. I usually accept their offer if I can afford it.

 

[Yndy]

Say the value of engineering is 2000 gold (for you to buy it)
The value of Monotheism is 1800 gold (for the AI to buy it)
Getting close is 10% of the value (I’m not sure of the real figure, might be as much as 20%).

Eng for Mono is getting close; Eng for Mono + 160g is still getting close.

In this case probably the AI had monopoly on Eng and you had monopoly on Monotheism or the prices would be lower and such difference would not exist. However in the industrial age when I buy a tech for a tech plus money, seeing ‘getting close’ might mean I have to cough 500-800 gold (or 30-50 gpt) to seal the deal. That is because the value of the techs is very high 6000 – 8000gold.

In the Modern Age the difference is so much that you seldom make a tech for tech + cash deal simply because the cash difference is too much.

BTW, you could generally adjust downward (upward) 10% from their best deal and save ‘negotiation’ time.

 

[Gainy]

That will be how it works, except instead of it being 10/20% of the value, it would be 80/90% of the value
I agree with you on the price of tech thing as well, as Monotheism is 16x the cost of Pottery...
Now all we need is someone to get the correct figure

 

[RougeKing]

A "Best Deal" would be nice. The "What do you want..." option usually comes up with outrageous request.

Has anyone written a deal calculator utilitity? I have seen them for Cultural Flips which are even more of a BLack Box item in the game.

 

[Gainy]

Has anyone written a deal calculator utilitity?

Almost certainly no. There are waaay too many factors.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by budweiser
Just beware there is a penalty associated with always demanding the 'best deal'. I usually accept their offer if I can afford it.

There is?

That would be new to me. Is it a penalty? Or is it missing a bonus?

 

[Gainy]

There is?

You click on what you want from them, then on the list of things you can say, click "What do you want for this?" - or something like that.
If you do this, the AI will charge a bit extra than the bare minimum, hence

there is a penalty associated with always demanding the 'best deal'

Hope that clears things up for you

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Gainy bo


You click on what you want from them, then on the list of things you can say, click "What do you want for this?" - or something like that.
If you do this, the AI will charge a bit extra than the bare minimum, hence

Hope that clears things up for you

Not at all......

Serious, do I get a penalty for seeking the best deal? A small rep hit or so?

 

[Gainy]

Serious, do I get a penalty for seeking the best deal? A small rep hit or so?

No. What budweiser meant was, that if you use the option which I told you about, the AI will charge you more than if you had offered a sum yourself.
Ie, I want Pottery from the Zulu's. I click on the button which says "What do you want for this" - "this" being pottery. They respond with a deal offering Pottery for 35 gold. I can choose to accept it.
If I were to do it manually (not asking them using the button thingie), then I might be able to get it for about 30 gold.

No rep hits

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by Gainy bo


No. What budweiser meant was, that if you use the option which I told you about, the AI will charge you more than if you had offered a sum yourself.
Ie, I want Pottery from the Zulu's. I click on the button which says "What do you want for this" - "this" being pottery. They respond with a deal offering Pottery for 35 gold. I can choose to accept it.
If I were to do it manually (not asking them using the button thingie), then I might be able to get it for about 30 gold.

No rep hits

Then things work the way I thought they would.

But I am pretty sure Budweiser means something else....

 

[budweiser]

I did mean something else, but it appears I was wrong. I just read another thread where Bamspeedy did some testing about this.

It was my impression that that if you contiunally adjust until you get the best deal, then somehow the ai will not deal with you the same way. As if they will become harder to negotiate with, less willing to deal fairly. I do know that thier dialog towards you will reflect the fact that they consider you a tough negotiator. I guess it was just my imagination. They dont mind that you are stingy.

 

[Pirate]

Originally posted by budweiser
I did mean something else, but it appears I was wrong. I just read another thread where Bamspeedy did some testing about this.

It was my impression that that if you contiunally adjust until you get the best deal, then somehow the ai will not deal with you the same way. As if they will become harder to negotiate with, less willing to deal fairly. I do know that thier dialog towards you will reflect the fact that they consider you a tough negotiator. I guess it was just my imagination. They dont mind that you are stingy.

That's one of my biggest complaints about trading in Civ3- the fact that negotiating is not strategic at all, it's just a nit-picky waste of time to find that number of gold that has already been pre-determined and your advisor somehow already knows but won't tell you.

 

[Atotarho]

If I could drag the foreign(?) advisor out of the screen Id slap a helmet on him, throw him a rifle and send him off to fight the Aztecs by himself. He knows whats going on and he just wont tell me.

What kind of omipresent diety has an underling that snickers at him while he plays guessing games about the price of spices. It just not good enough.